aaid Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 minute ago, TDYER63 said: Please dont be so fooking sensible, its interfering with my faux outrage and strong sense of entitlement. Serious point, UEFA have fucked up European Club football with the CL and Europa League formats to get more games on TV and they're doing exactly the same with International football now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 46 minutes ago, Catchart Circle said: Had we been away first - great for travel plans - we would likely take around 3,000. However with the short turnaround from the Israel game and extortionate last minute flight costs this would put a lot off going and I suspect 2,000 would be adequate in those circumstances. Had we been away first, we'd have taken a damn sight more than 3000!! I've already said we've taken more than that to Oslo the twice I've been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 27 minutes ago, Catchart Circle said: Remember the Killie fans who booked up for the next round of the Europa. Don't remind me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, aaid said: Serious point, UEFA have fucked up European Club football with the CL and Europa League formats to get more games on TV and they're doing exactly the same with International football now. Sorry, I wasnt trying to undermine your point with my flippant response, quite the opposite. You are correct, they dont give a fook about the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 minute ago, TDYER63 said: Sorry, I wasnt trying to undermine your point with my flippant response, quite the opposite. You are correct, they dont give a fook about the fans. I didn't think you were undermining it, I understood your response was in humour and took it that way. It does annoy me intensely that so many people don't see this though and are blinded by "oh we might qualify for a finals". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchart Circle Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: Had we been away first, we'd have taken a damn sight more than 3000!! I've already said we've taken more than that to Oslo the twice I've been. There was less than ten of us in Oslo in '92 - admittedly a friendly though. Probably less than 1k the last time we played in Norway also in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 21 minutes ago, aaid said: I didn't think you were undermining it, I understood your response was in humour and took it that way. It does annoy me intensely that so many people don't see this though and are blinded by "oh we might qualify for a finals". 👍 I think people are just so desperate for us to have the chance of qualifying for something the route becomes irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 minute ago, TDYER63 said: 👍 I think people are just so desperate for us to have the chance of qualifying for something the route becomes irrelevant. I get that totally but what's the point if you completely devalue the achievement in the process. Is being the best wee diddy team that couldn't qualify through the standard route anything to be proud of? I guess that's easy for me to say though as I've seen us at major championships before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, aaid said: IIs being the best wee diddy team that couldn't qualify through the standard route anything to be proud of? 😂 I like to think of us being more of a ‘wildcard’... But yeah, I know what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 33 minutes ago, Catchart Circle said: Probably less than 1k the last time we played in Norway also in 2013. Yes, a fairly last minute friendly, in the middle of November, in the arse end of nowhere (Molde). The fact that we took just under 1,000 to that meaningless game isn't exactly backing up your theory that usually 1,300 would be enough for a run of the mill game in Norway. As I've said, both times I've seen us play in Oslo, we have taken considerably more than 1300 and neither of those games were a play off final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Jim Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, aaid said: I didn't think you were undermining it, I understood your response was in humour and took it that way. It does annoy me intensely that so many people don't see this though and are blinded by "oh we might qualify for a finals". Just wait 'til the next NL in league B. Those games really will feel like friendlies as chances of qualifying from them will be slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, aaid said: I get that totally but what's the point if you completely devalue the achievement in the process. Is being the best wee diddy team that couldn't qualify through the standard route anything to be proud of? I guess that's easy for me to say though as I've seen us at major championships before. I seem to remember Denmark being in that position once. Didn't do them any harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchart Circle Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said: Yes, a fairly last minute friendly, in the middle of November, in the arse end of nowhere (Molde). The fact that we took just under 1,000 to that meaningless game isn't exactly backing up your theory that usually 1,300 would be enough for a run of the mill game in Norway. As I've said, both times I've seen us play in Oslo, we have taken considerably more than 1300 and neither of those games were a play off final. Well there is nothing like manipulating the facts to suit your agenda. If you are going to dismiss the friendly then by the same token the crowd at the 2009 game should be disregarded as this was exceptional as a win would have kept us in with a shout of qualification with two games remaining. You seem to be placing too much emphasis on the crowd at the 4-0 loss. I have seen Scotland in Norway seven times since 1979 and that was by far in excess of any crowd we had taken there but I would dispute your inflated figure of 3.000. 2,500 would be more likely in my view if the official SFA sales were 2,200. If we add these two extremes crowds (along with Molde) together then there would be a rough total of around 3,300 giving an average of 1,650 which would probably be about right. Incidentally your observation that qualification was all but over for the game in September 2005 is just wrong. The 2-1 win kept us very much in with a shout with - again - two games remaining. The home loss in the next game against Belarus killed off our hopes. Again I would disagree with your assessment of the travelling fans for 2005 game, Edited January 24, 2020 by Catchart Circle spelling error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 32 minutes ago, Orraloon said: I seem to remember Denmark being in that position once. Didn't do them any harm. That was a completely different scenario and was reacting to a specific set of circumstances, ie, Yugoslavia not being able to take part because of an actual war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 28 minutes ago, Catchart Circle said: Well there is nothing like manipulating the facts to suit your agenda. If you are going to dismiss the friendly then by the same token the crowd at the 2009 game should be disregarded as this was exceptional as a win would have kept us in with a shout of qualification with two games remaining. You seem to be placing too much emphasis on the crowd at the 4-0 loss. I have seen Scotland in Norway seven times since 1979 and that was by far in excess of any crowd we had taken there but I would dispute your inflated figure of 3.000. 2,500 would be more likely in my view if the official SFA sales were 2,200. If we add these two extremes crowds (along with Molde) together then there would be a rough total of around 3,300 giving an average of 1,650 which would probably be about right. Incidentally your observation that qualification was all but over for the game in September 2005 is just wrong. The 2-1 win kept us very much in with a shout with - again - two games remaining. The home loss in the next game against Belarus killed off our hopes. Again I would disagree with your assessment of the travelling fans for 2005 game, The 2009 game was also in August which would have increased the travelling support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Munro Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 48 minutes ago, aaid said: That was a completely different scenario and was reacting to a specific set of circumstances, ie, Yugoslavia not being able to take part because of an actual war. They were still a team who weren't able to qualify. Nothing "completely different" about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Terry Munro said: They were still a team who weren't able to qualify. Nothing "completely different" about it. They were all on their holidays TM. They had eight days' notice of their participation in the tournament. On what basis is that not completely different to not qualifying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 emailed the supporters club and was told the segregation in oslo restricted us to 1350.how 's that when we have taken 2500+ in recent times.we all know they only need to give us 5% ,but for f..ks sake,is it it too much to ask for 10%.i'm sure if we had got the home draw,we would have gave them 3500-4000.all we can hope is that serbia f..king pump those arseholes,then we will get a good 3000 or so.CMON SERBIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 54 minutes ago, Terry Munro said: They were still a team who weren't able to qualify. Nothing "completely different" about it. In Euro 92, Denmark finished runners up to Yugoslavia in a five team group. They won 6, drew 1 and lost 1. Adjusted for 3 pts for a win, they would have finished with 19 points, two points behind Yugoslavia. They were only called up,to the tournament because of the unprecedented circumstances of the Yugoslavian war. Had they not been called up the only options would've been to play with seven teams in the finals or to cancel it completely. BY DESIGN. In Euro 2020, one of these teams will be in the finals. Path D. Georgia - finished 4th in a 5 team group with 8 points. Kosovo - finished 3rd in a 5 team group with 11 points. Belarus - finished 4th in a 5 team group with 4 points North Macedonia - finished 3rd in a 6 team group with 14 points, or 11 points if you deduct results against the last team in the group. Path C. Scotland - finished 3rd in a six team group with 15 points, 9 points when adjusted. Israel - finished 5th in a 6 team group with 11 points, 8 points when adjusted. Norway - finished 3rd in a 6 team group with 17 points, 11 points when adjusted. Serbia - finished 3rd in a 5 team group with 14 points. When Yugoslavia couldn't take part in Euro 92, Denmark were the next best option. None of the team's above deserve a second chance and none should be in the finals, they are just not good enough. That's the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Munro Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said: They were all on their holidays TM. They had eight days' notice of their participation in the tournament. On what basis is that not completely different to not qualifying? On the basis that they did not actually qualify the proper way, which is what Aid was talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Munro Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 27 minutes ago, aaid said: In Euro 92, Denmark finished runners up to Yugoslavia in a five team group. They won 6, drew 1 and lost 1. Adjusted for 3 pts for a win, they would have finished with 19 points, two points behind Yugoslavia. They were only called up,to the tournament because of the unprecedented circumstances of the Yugoslavian war. Had they not been called up the only options would've been to play with seven teams in the finals or to cancel it completely. BY DESIGN. In Euro 2020, one of these teams will be in the finals. Path D. Georgia - finished 4th in a 5 team group with 8 points. Kosovo - finished 3rd in a 5 team group with 11 points. Belarus - finished 4th in a 5 team group with 4 points North Macedonia - finished 3rd in a 6 team group with 14 points, or 11 points if you deduct results against the last team in the group. Path C. Scotland - finished 3rd in a six team group with 15 points, 9 points when adjusted. Israel - finished 5th in a 6 team group with 11 points, 8 points when adjusted. Norway - finished 3rd in a 6 team group with 17 points, 11 points when adjusted. Serbia - finished 3rd in a 5 team group with 14 points. When Yugoslavia couldn't take part in Euro 92, Denmark were the next best option. None of the team's above deserve a second chance and none should be in the finals, they are just not good enough. That's the difference. They might well be a stronger team than we are now but they still weren't able to qualify in the format at that time. Same thing. You could even argue that Scotland would be more deserving given these playoffs were planned all along and the rules were set from the start. Not some back door entry because of a war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Jim Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Look. The rules are set out beforehand(*), and you play by them to qualify. So far, we've beaten what's in from of us and IF we continue to do that, we qualify. *Except UEFA keep making stuff up (like the coin toss) as they go through this first iteration 😖 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Terry Munro said: They might well be a stronger team than we are now but they still weren't able to qualify in the format at that time. Same thing. You could even argue that Scotland would be more deserving given these playoffs were planned all along and the rules were set from the start. Not some back door entry because of a war. You could but you'd be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Munro Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, aaid said: You could but you'd be wrong. Just like you were then when you said it was completely different to Denmark getting in the back door in 1992. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiefaetheferry Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Terry Munro said: Just like you were then when you said it was completely different to Denmark getting in the back door in 1992. Gonnae no say Denmark and back door together please? The Spunk Bar in Copenhagen after the friendly has a lot to answer for 😵. To be fair, it was just a normal bar and handed over my mate’s lost phone the next day 👍😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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