Caledonian Craig Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 33 minutes ago, Chripper said: I didn't say anything about failures. How do you define a failure? Are we talking about club level or international level? Griffiths hasn't been a failure at club level, and Ferguson certainly wasn't. You could make a case that Ferguson didn't fail at international level, either, as he didn't play enough matches to make that judgement. With regards to Ferguson, Miller and Griffiths I wasn't talking about their football records. So yes, I would say that all of our strikers, for some reason, have something missing up-top... and I'm not talking about their hair. Personally, I'd rather have consummate professions, like Darren Fletcher and Andy Robertson. Trace it back and the conversation started around talk of players off-field antics ruining their careers. Kenny Miller was somehow bracketed into this group - I cannot see how his career has been ruined by any off-field antics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Trace it back and the conversation started around talk of players off-field antics ruining their careers. Kenny Miller was somehow bracketed into this group - I cannot see how his career has been ruined by any off-field antics. Didn't say it was. Did you think that I thought that his career was ruined by his off-field antics? Did you think I said it? If you were defending Ferguson I could understand it, because he was a player that no defender had an easy time with, but Miller? He was a player of limited ability that managed to disguise it with his headless chicken routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 7 hours ago, Chripper said: You actually read my mind, I was thinking just that very thing: Derek Riordan, Garry O'Connor, Duncan Ferguson (Prison), Tony Watt, Jason Cummings, Kenny Miller (Gangster friends), Leigh Griffiths (Gambling addiction). I just don't think the aforementioned came out right. Ferguson had a stellar career in England, but not with us. Miller was hit and (much more) miss and Griffiths had two wonder strikes. That's been about it for our strikers since 2000. I honestly can't think of a Scottish striker I would trust enough to start... which is worrying. Well what does that read like to you? Miller lumped into a group of players who have flopped (largely) at international level. And something missing up top? Are you talking about on or off the pitch here? Ferguson had a chance to show what he could do for Scotland and rejected it. From the meagre caps he won (7) he failed to score so from the limited data we have he failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Well what does that read like to you? Miller lumped into a group of players who have flopped (largely) at international level. And something missing up top? Are you talking about on or off the pitch here? Ferguson had a chance to show what he could do for Scotland and rejected it. From the meagre caps he won (7) he failed to score so from the limited data we have he failed. Nah. I wasn't really talking about their on-the-field records. Off-field. Well, with Ferguson it went both ways. I still remember him throwing Ince around like he was a teddy bear. I wouldn't really say that he failed. I remember how we played when we played him up-front, for some reason our players forgot how to play football and just lumped it up to him from all angles - hardly his fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Chripper said: Nah. I wasn't really talking about their on-the-field records. Off-field. Well, with Ferguson it went both ways. I still remember him throwing Ince around like he was a teddy bear. I wouldn't really say that he failed. I remember how we played when we played him up-front, for some reason our players forgot how to play football and just lumped it up to him from all angles - hardly his fault. With all due respect Ferguson's caps came at a time when Scotland were still qualifying for international tournaments with better quality players around him. That is not the case with Kenny Miller. His international career came when Scotland's fortunes had dipped and we were struggling for quality in the side. It is therefore far greater kudos to Miller for bagging 18 goals for us in a struggling team than Ferguson for not scoring in the last half-decent Scotland team we had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: With all due respect Ferguson's caps came at a time when Scotland were still qualifying for international tournaments with better quality players around him. That is not the case with Kenny Miller. His international career came when Scotland's fortunes had dipped and we were struggling for quality in the side. It is therefore far greater kudos to Miller for bagging 18 goals for us in a struggling team than Ferguson for not scoring in the last half-decent Scotland team we had. Nah. I disagree. I mean, I agree that we had better players when Ferguson was playing, but as I said, when Ferguson was on the field we resorted to long aimless balls up the big man. It's like they forgot how to play football. I wouldn't say that 7 matches is enough to judge a player. Alan Shearer went 12 matches without scoring for England leading up to Euro 96. He didn't do too badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chripper said: Nah. I disagree. I mean, I agree that we had better players when Ferguson was playing, but as I said, when Ferguson was on the field we resorted to long aimless balls up the big man. It's like they forgot how to play football. I wouldn't say that 7 matches is enough to judge a player. Alan Shearer went 12 matches without scoring for England leading up to Euro 96. He didn't do too badly. If you were to give me the option now of slotting Duncan Ferguson or Kenny Miller into our side right now I'd take Miller every time. Committed to the cause (unlike Ferguson). Proven at international level (unlike Ferguson). Better work-rate than Ferguson. And if we look at their end career stats Miller had a better strike rate than Ferguson too. But I have no doubt you will disagree as I do with you but that is opinions for you. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 No. I completely respect your opinion, and I see what you're getting at, with regards to work-rate and pure energy and spirit. I'll take Ferguson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 8 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said: Sorry but I cannot see how Kenny Miller can be lumped in amongst such flops. He stands at 6th on the all-time list of highest Scotland goalscorers with only Dalglish, Law, Hughie Gallacher, Reilly and McCoist. Bear in mind that Miller was playing in a team struggling for quality. He averages a better than a goal every four games average which is very respectable when talking about Scotland international strikers. Funny every time I see these stats I think Daglish v San Marino lol Law v Andorra lol Gallacher or Reilly against half of what w now call Europe lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 20 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Funny every time I see these stats I think Daglish v San Marino lol Law v Andorra lol Gallacher or Reilly against half of what w now call Europe lol Or Steven Fletcher Vs Gibraltar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 9 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said: Funny every time I see these stats I think Daglish v San Marino lol Law v Andorra lol Gallacher or Reilly against half of what w now call Europe lol It can be looked at it two ways though. Back then Scotland had a higher standing in the sport back then so minnows to us were the likes of Greece etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Russell's Lovechild Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said: If you were to give me the option now of slotting Duncan Ferguson or Kenny Miller into our side right now I'd take Miller every time. Committed to the cause (unlike Ferguson). Proven at international level (unlike Ferguson). Better work-rate than Ferguson. And if we look at their end career stats Miller had a better strike rate than Ferguson too. But I have no doubt you will disagree as I do with you but that is opinions for you. 👍 Miller could also score against big nation's (Germany, Italy, England, Croatia come straight to mind). Could be frustrating, but absolutely loved Miller Edited January 20, 2019 by Bobby Russell's Lovechild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said: Miller could also score against big nation's (Germany, Italy, England, Croatia come straight to mind). Could be frustrating, but absolutely loved Miller And was dedicated to the cause unlike Ferguson. I'd not give him a third chance to let us down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: And was dedicated to the cause unlike Ferguson. I'd not give him a third chance to let us down. It wasn't black and white. Ferguson had a grudge against the SFA for not having his back during the whole headbutt incident. It was nothing at all to do with playing for Scotland, it wasn't even a football issue, it was a life issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Chripper said: It wasn't black and white. Ferguson had a grudge against the SFA for not having his back during the whole headbutt incident. It was nothing at all to do with playing for Scotland, it wasn't even a football issue, it was a life issue. Why should they have had his back. Ferguson was not wired right in the head and didn’t care about playing for Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Why should they have had his back. Ferguson was not wired right in the heiad and didn’t care about playing for Scotland. I didn't say they should've. Which is my original point, all the striker I listed aren't the full shilling. You think he didn't care about playing for Scotland? He said that he should've had 100 Scotland caps, so that would suggest that he wanted 100+ caps. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/duncan-ferguson-says-the-sfa-cost-1542759 If you don't think he cared about playing for Scotland then maybe you should ask him. I think he did. You did he didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Chripper said: It wasn't black and white. Ferguson had a grudge against the SFA for not having his back during the whole headbutt incident. It was nothing at all to do with playing for Scotland, it wasn't even a football issue, it was a life issue. You can believe that if you wish. He is the one who chose not to represent Scotland. He went off the rails and ended up (rightly) in prison and blamed the SFA for his plight. I do not have a problem with him having an issue with the SFA but do have a problem with him choosing not to play for Scotland again as he would have been playing for Scotland not SFA United. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Chripper said: all the striker I listed aren't the full shilling. Sorry but that is wrong to throw Kenny Miller in there. Not a full shilling? I suggest you watch some of his games/goals. One in particular V Germany at Hampden Park where he was quick thinking enough to make a run for a quickly taken Cameron free-kick and score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Just now, Caledonian Craig said: Sorry but that is wrong to throw Kenny Miller in there. Not a full shilling? I suggest you watch some of his games/goals. One in particular V Germany at Hampden Park where he was quick thinking enough to make a run for a quickly taken Cameron free-kick and score. I wasn't suggesting that he would play in his birthday suit or do anything nutty on the field. Off the field, however, is a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Chripper said: I wasn't suggesting that he would play in his birthday suit or do anything nutty on the field. Off the field, however, is a different story. I don't recall him having a criminal record? Has he been in Barlinnie? Been in Carstairs? And if you are 'not a full shilling' it shows everywhere. On the pitch or off. Edited January 20, 2019 by Caledonian Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 33 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: I don't recall him having a criminal record? Has he been in Barlinnie? Been in Carstairs? And if you are 'not a full shilling' it shows everywhere. On the pitch or off. Well, obviously It doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Any Scottish player transfer news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, mrniaboc said: Any Scottish player transfer news? Jim Leighton to Man Utd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csinclair Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Southampton in talks to sign Che Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab The Crab Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 33 minutes ago, csinclair said: Southampton in talks to sign Che Adams Being that he’s been mentioned as a potential pick for us it’d be better if he moved to a bigger Championship side, than a EPL struggler I reckon. Have we ever approached him to ask if he’s keen to play for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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