N4Footsoldier Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Canny remember any away double headers in recent years certainly. Although there are a few combinations in this draw that would make that logistically doable and as mentioned earlier would be some laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottincarlisle Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, N4Footsoldier said: Canny remember any away double headers in recent years certainly. Although there are a few combinations in this draw that would make that logistically doable and as mentioned earlier would be some laugh. Leichtenstien to Alicante ? Cardiff & Brussels . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotlandWintheWorldCup Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 23 hours ago, wanderer said: Yes, 4 group winners go up, and 4 teams that finish bottom go down for when they plan to do it again in future. Not entirely correct. In league C there are 3 4team groups and 1 3 team group. All teams in each league are ranked at the end by league position and then pts, gd etc... So in this case the 3 4th placed teams are relegated but then it is the worst 3rd placed team, so for example Group A      Group B     Group C     Group D Promoted    Promoted    Promoted    Promoted Stay         Stay         Stay         Stay Stay         Stay         Stay         Relegated             Relegated    Relegated    Relegated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said: Not entirely correct. In league C there are 3 4team groups and 1 3 team group. All teams in each league are ranked at the end by league position and then pts, gd etc... So in this case the 3 4th placed teams are relegated but then it is the worst 3rd placed team, so for example Group A      Group B     Group C     Group D Promoted    Promoted    Promoted    Promoted Stay         Stay         Stay         Stay Stay         Stay         Stay         Relegated             Relegated    Relegated    Relegated Unless there has been a change since announcing it, that is not what their graph says, https://www.uefa.com/community/news/newsid=2079553.html  Quote The four group winners are promoted to League B, with the four sides that finish bottom relegated to League D for the 2020 edition.  Edited January 19, 2018 by wanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotlandWintheWorldCup Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, wanderer said: Unless there has been a change since announcing it, that is not what their graph says, https://www.uefa.com/community/news/newsid=2079553.html From their Nations league rules booklet 18.05 Promotion and relegation between the four leagues takes effect for the next edition of the competition as follows: a. The four group winners in Leagues B, C and D are promoted to the next league up. b. The four third-placed teams in Leagues A and B are relegated to the next league down. c. The three fourth-placed teams and the lowest-ranking third-placed team in League C are relegated to League D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotlandWintheWorldCup Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Also, saw on here somewhere that some think this is a 4 yearly competition. Not so, it occurs every 2 years between the Euros and the WC. Also for 2022 WC qualification the same system will be in place. Play Nations League in 20-21 then WC qualifiers between March 21 and Oct 21. Top teams in each group qualify but no 2nd placed teams to playoffs, instead the Nations League's best teams not already qualified will playoff in Nov 21. This is why the nations league is going to be extremely important, because for us to finish 1st in a WC qualify group is tough not impossible though, so our nations league place is probably going to determine whether we get into the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said: From their Nations league rules booklet 18.05 Promotion and relegation between the four leagues takes effect for the next edition of the competition as follows: a. The four group winners in Leagues B, C and D are promoted to the next league up. b. The four third-placed teams in Leagues A and B are relegated to the next league down. c. The three fourth-placed teams and the lowest-ranking third-placed team in League C are relegated to League D. Just reading through the guide/rule book that was released by UEFA a few days ago and does look like they have tweaked it a little (though I notice they have no incorporated this into their media diagram they are releasing to the media/general public) so you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotlandWintheWorldCup Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, wanderer said: Just reading through the guide/rule book that was released by UEFA a few days ago and does look like they have tweaked it a little (though I notice they have no incorporated this into their media diagram they are releasing to the media/general public) so you are right. I like it because the 3 team group is not unfairly treated whereby 3 good teams might be playing and 2 crappy teams like estonia and england are in 4 team group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4Footsoldier Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Couldn't really care less about promotion tbh - what I was interested in was how it helps us qualify. Basically if we fail to finished 2nd or above in our normal qualifying group, it is a fallback where we can qualify via playoffs. We would need to win our group unless we can 2nd and the team(s) above us already qualify. Note finishing 2nd place in our normal qualifying group this time would mean automatic qualification. This is about the best description I could find: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHz4h7hiPgo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 hours ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said: From their Nations league rules booklet 18.05 Promotion and relegation between the four leagues takes effect for the next edition of the competition as follows: a. The four group winners in Leagues B, C and D are promoted to the next league up. b. The four third-placed teams in Leagues A and B are relegated to the next league down. c. The three fourth-placed teams and the lowest-ranking third-placed team in League C are relegated to League D.  2 hours ago, wanderer said: Just reading through the guide/rule book that was released by UEFA a few days ago and does look like they have tweaked it a little (though I notice they have no incorporated this into their media diagram they are releasing to the media/general public) so you are right. You would think they would make league D the groups of 3 and 4 teams rather than league C to avoid all this hassle. That way if they end up needing to add a new team like Gibraltar in the past they wouldn't need to muck around with numbers to much as they could slot into the 3 team group. If more than 1 team needs to be added then you promote 4 extra teams so you don't have a group of 5. Obviously far to sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoonTheSlope Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I'm not wanting Estonia. I was there last year and it was dear as fuck. €30 for spaghetti and a juice. It was freezing aswell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) So it's basically a way of seeding the playoffs which will now involve the top non qualified countries. So for the world cup this year the likes of Holland might have made the playoffs but Northern Ireland would not meaning there will be no such thing as a lucky draw in future. So we need to finish as high as possible in the Nations league to get a play off qualifier and if so to get an easier one based on our league position. It's a glorified European Ranking system?  Edited January 19, 2018 by ceudmilefailte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoonTheSlope Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 At the end of the day the main aim is to win every game regardless of how complicate (or uncomplicated if you're a clever cunt) the process is Either way it's competitive games so far better than friendlies with 7 or 8 subs ruining the flow of the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 If it's the way I see it I quite like it although it would be pretty hard to get to the position required to get to a play off. The best teams would so it seems pretty fair.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) On 18/01/2018 at 5:02 PM, wanderer said: UEFA/FIFA has a pretty lengthy list these days of who can and can not play each other (ie Russia against Ukraine and Georgia.... Gibraltar and Spain... and after the last couple of Croatia v Serbia games, plus Albania v Serbia almost starting WW3 a year or two ago, they have went zero tollerence with most the western Balkan nations). I am not sure how strict they are on the "winter" rule, as read somewhere this has been in place a while now.... I do not think we are classified as a "winter" nation, but imagine Finland and Norway are, with maybe Estonia added in. UEFA have a lengthy list when it suits the Spanish you mean. How on earth they ever thought Croatia v Serbia, and particularly Albania v Serbia were going to pass without tensions or incident was frankly irresponsible. But these nations aren't big muff in UEFA so go figure............we'll probably see Serbia v Kosovo in the forthcoming draw??  Edited January 19, 2018 by Barney Rubble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, wanderer said: You do still get them here and there (think Sweden had one recently) but not all that common That’s probably a good thing. The Liechtenstein / Spain double header in 2011 almost did me in, just shy of a week on the peeve. Going from Snowy Alps to the baking Costa Blanca. J Edited January 19, 2018 by Bristolhibby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 The way I see it you're better off finishing third than second. If you finish second you don't get into the playoffs but you get promoted. Surely going up a league would make it even harder to get a playoff next time around! I realise there's an outside chance that the second, or even third place, could still get a playoff if the team(s) above them qualify the conventional way but this is highly unlikely in the lower leagues. The concept does initially seem quite appealing but the more you dig the more you realise how fundamentally flawed it actually is. You could potentially see games where teams are deliberately dropping points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Jim Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, todd said: The way I see it you're better off finishing third than second. If you finish second you don't get into the playoffs but you get promoted. Surely going up a league would make it even harder to get a playoff next time around! I realise there's an outside chance that the second, or even third place, could still get a playoff if the team(s) above them qualify the conventional way but this is highly unlikely in the lower leagues. The concept does initially seem quite appealing but the more you dig the more you realise how fundamentally flawed it actually is. You could potentially see games where teams are deliberately dropping points. http://www.football-rankings.info/2017/07/uefa-nations-league-losing-could.html As I see it in our case, if we got ourselves relegated from C, we should make the group D play-offs next time around (for the 2022 world cup).  However we'd hurt our UEFA ranking and probably blow our 2nd chance of qualifying for Euro 2020 and those two Hampden group games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottincarlisle Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I think based on recent campaigns we should take the Nations League games seriously as I think this is our best chance for qualifying for 2020. 17 minutes ago, Grim Jim said:  As I see it in our case, if we got ourselves relegated from C, we should make the group D play-offs next time around (for the 2022 world cup).  Will it be running on pre WC years ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 37 minutes ago, Grim Jim said: http://www.football-rankings.info/2017/07/uefa-nations-league-losing-could.html As I see it in our case, if we got ourselves relegated from C, we should make the group D play-offs next time around (for the 2022 world cup).  However we'd hurt our UEFA ranking and probably blow our 2nd chance of qualifying for Euro 2020 and those two Hampden group games. Yes but if by the latter stages of the nations league it was apparent that we could not achieve first place then it may become benificial to finish third or even fourth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weekevie04 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I like it and its a good incentive for teams like us to take it seriously - do the SFA know this? Wouldn't mind get Norway to visit a couple of pals although expensive. Albania would be magnificent too! No doubt we'll get Lithuania again though I'm probably in a minority here, but the thought of having a minnow at Euro 2020 is excellent too. Although you'd imagine it would be one of the stronger sides like Azerbaijan, Georgia, Armenia, Belarus etc - what will UEFA do if they are the Playoff sides? Hmmm. The Faroes are a very decent side these days and would love to see them at the Euros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 9 hours ago, Grim Jim said: http://www.football-rankings.info/2017/07/uefa-nations-league-losing-could.html As I see it in our case, if we got ourselves relegated from C, we should make the group D play-offs next time around (for the 2022 world cup).  However we'd hurt our UEFA ranking and probably blow our 2nd chance of qualifying for Euro 2020 and those two Hampden group games. Don't think it works like that. The group play offs decide who moves up a group. play offs to reach finals are based on highest ranked teams that have not qualified. so a team in group D will never reach a play of and a team in group C will hardly ever make a world cup playoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 9 hours ago, Grim Jim said: http://www.football-rankings.info/2017/07/uefa-nations-league-losing-could.html As I see it in our case, if we got ourselves relegated from C, we should make the group D play-offs next time around (for the 2022 world cup).  However we'd hurt our UEFA ranking and probably blow our 2nd chance of qualifying for Euro 2020 and those two Hampden group games. I'm not sure there will be a world cup place for a group D team. They are only giving them a Euro place because there are 24 places. No chance UEFA will have a top side miss out so that a lower ranked side can sneak in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said: I'm not sure there will be a world cup place for a group D team. They are only giving them a Euro place because there are 24 places. No chance UEFA will have a top side miss out so that a lower ranked side can sneak in. So are they, for example, letting San Marino into Euros should they win group D? And you think, that lets say Scotland and Macedonia could have a play off from group C to reach world cup finals?  Edited January 20, 2018 by ceudmilefailte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Jim Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 22 hours ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said: Also, saw on here somewhere that some think this is a 4 yearly competition. Not so, it occurs every 2 years between the Euros and the WC. Also for 2022 WC qualification the same system will be in place. Play Nations League in 20-21 then WC qualifiers between March 21 and Oct 21. Top teams in each group qualify but no 2nd placed teams to playoffs, instead the Nations League's best teams not already qualified will playoff in Nov 21. This is why the nations league is going to be extremely important, because for us to finish 1st in a WC qualify group is tough not impossible though, so our nations league place is probably going to determine whether we get into the playoffs.  12 hours ago, scottincarlisle said: I think based on recent campaigns we should take the Nations League games seriously as I think this is our best chance for qualifying for 2020. Will it be running on pre WC years ? According to ScotlandWintheWorldCup above.  I hadn't heard that myself before either. I don't think UEFA will commit themselves to anything until they see how this one goes, and will no doubt tinker with it should it remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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