General Election 2015

[weekevie04]

Would a loose Yes Alliance with strong local candidates from the whole Yes movement be a good idea?

Sure there are differences, but a lot can unite them e.g a run on an a devo max option for 2015?

The SNP could probably win a lot of seats alone, but even though the Yes vote was huge in the strong traditional Labour areas, maybe needed is something more 'radical' for the Yes voting areas that would eat in to the Labour vote?

This debate has brought us a lot of strong people seen in debates and hustings who are not SNP members, and suppose we have no idea if the likes of Robin McAlpine, Patrick Harvie, Jonathan Shafi would fancy standing as MPs in the first place

You could have the SNP keeping their Heartlands, winning the Liberal seats they won in 2011. Even a major comeback for Eck in his old Gordon seat?

A cobbled together idea right now, but considering all these Yes movements seem to want to keep going, the SSP/Greens/SNP's numbers going through the roof and many of these groups are holding meetings/conferences in the next month.

Sure, UK media we would get squeezed for air time with a Milliband v Cameron battle and the likes of UKIP getting a ton of publicity. Yet up in Scotland we'd fight on this Enhanced Powers/Proper Change for Scotland ticket, and whilst they would also all eat in to each others vote and with a much reduced turnout than a Yes/No referendum.

[Clyde1998]

Would a loose Yes Alliance with strong local candidates from the whole Yes movement be a good idea?

Sure there are differences, but a lot can unite them e.g a run on an a devo max option for 2015?

The SNP could probably win a lot of seats alone, but even though the Yes vote was huge in the strong traditional Labour areas, maybe needed is something more 'radical' for the Yes voting areas that would eat in to the Labour vote?

This debate has brought us a lot of strong people seen in debates and hustings who are not SNP members, and suppose we have no idea if the likes of Robin McAlpine, Patrick Harvie, Jonathan Shafi would fancy standing as MPs in the first place

You could have the SNP keeping their Heartlands, winning the Liberal seats they won in 2011. Even a major comeback for Eck in his old Gordon seat?

A cobbled together idea right now, but considering all these Yes movements seem to want to keep going, the SSP/Greens/SNP's numbers going through the roof and many of these groups are holding meetings/conferences in the next month.

Sure, UK media we would get squeezed for air time with a Milliband v Cameron battle and the likes of UKIP getting a ton of publicity. Yet up in Scotland we'd fight on this Enhanced Powers/Proper Change for Scotland ticket, and whilst they would also all eat in to each others vote and with a much reduced turnout than a Yes/No referendum.

I reckon we'll be up against the media again. They will hardly broadcast anything about the SNP, but if we can get 40% of the vote - it would be incredible.

We should take almost every Liberal Democrat seat - with them being left with the Northern Isles. This would heavily boost the number of SNP seats.

[Grim Jim]

I'd love an alliance, but then I am (to varying degrees) pro SNP, Green, SSP and Yes.

I fear it would look less attractive to folk of different persuasions. For instance it's my opinion that the airtime Tommy was getting in the last week (which I enjoyed!) probably turned a lot of folk away from Yes.

Just one of the elements might be enough to dissuade, and opponents would cherry pick.

[Grim Jim]

On the other hand, I'd said to folk just before the referendum that win or lose, I couldn't imagine ever voting in a Westminster election ever again. Seemed pointless.

Already though, I can't imagine not supporting my team. Even in a diddy cup.

[Armchair Bob]

The media will ignore the SNP so hard it will be painful, whilst beaming daily live video feeds from the inside of Nigel Farage's arse.

The yes movement adds a new dynamic to the mix though, could have Milibands arse sewing buttons.

[Hertsscot]

Don't care if it's all SNP or a broad alliance, it's essential that the Yes vote is not split. The No campaigners can fight it out amongst themselves, there's a bigger stake at prize for us.

[hoodster]

After banging on about no more Tory governments as a reason to vote Yes it would be a bit rich to try and knock off Labour seats in a very tight General Election, the net result of which might be to let the Tories in at Westminster. It would also be a waste of time as evidenced by opinion polling at the weekend. The Scottish people have been voting tactically for 30 years now and Labour will again reap the reward of that in 2015.

If you are saying pinch Labour seats to get the Tories back in because that would be a shortcut to another referendum if there was a subsequent Yes landslide in 2016 fair enough, because if Labour get in in 2015 you can take independence of the table for the forseeable future.

However, on the doorstep, any broad Yes campaign or attempt to turn it into another pseudo referendum is wide open to the 'wasted vote', 'That just helps the Tories', Labour will counter that kind of campaign in a heartbeat.

Don't see UKIP doing anything in a general election, Cameron will sew up the UKIP sympathisers by creating the illusion of stealing UKIP policies, which Labour can't do, and we would probably be surprised how many UKIP protest voters are actually Labour leaning.

How to demolish UKIP on the doorstep? 'Wasted vote, they've no chance of winning'. Sound familar? The real question is where the Lib Dem vote in England goes, that might get Labour over the line.

[neilly71]

We want as many pro Indy MP's returned as possible. When we talk of voting tactically we are talking about voting between the pro Indy parties, not labour sell outs. Feck them to hell, I'm hoping their party dies in 2015 in Scotland.

[Toepoke]

I like the idea of a SNP / Yes Alliance as has been mentioned before. But it'll take about a 30% swing to hurt Labour in a General Election here. Lots of ground work would have to be done by all these new party activists!

[weekevie04]

I'm guessing none of the parties will agree on what these ''more powers that are coming to Scotland'' should be.

I noticed Eck mentioned that job creating powers are a must today in his speech at the Parliament.

This will be a long winded process for ''more powers'' and in a way, it's win-win for the SNP, because they have gained a lot of sympathy and goodwill at present from many new Yes voters after the loss of the referendum, but also, of the soft Nos - many who may well be regretting their decision, or the ones swayed by promises of 'Home Rule' 'Devo Max' by the UK media.

If Barnett is cut, altered, or these further powers are deemed not enough, I think the SNP will demand pretty much devo max and join up again with these wounded, but raring to go Yes grassroots movements -and fight on for a 'Home Rule for Scotland' ticket in 2015.

I dinnae ken though.

The Unionists have mentioned many times today that "Devolution is the settled will of the Scottish people".

Salmond tonight very coy on both Scotland Tonight and 2014, and said himself that stepping down as FM will not be the last we see or hear of him with a smirk and raised eyebrows.

There is in my opinion no actual settled will of the Scottish people and there never will be. We could become independent in 5,10, 20 years - we also may never. We then could re-join the Union, or a federal European state in 40 years, or even different smaller independent Scottish council/city states could spring up in 60, 80, 200 years. The future we cannot tell, so for present, we rejected independence, but much like Better Together talked of for these past two years and 'uncertainties' of the EU, currency, pensions - tomorrow itself offers uncertainy for every single one of us as a human in every aspect of life.

People who believe independence will not be going away. The Unionists have to accept this too, that somehow because we lost the referendum that we should never aspire to be independent from the UK. We may not be banging the drum for another referendum tomorrow, May 2015, Holyrood 2016 or demanding we declare Independence asap, but as has been quoted often this weekend''The dream will never die.''

And as long as at least one person living in Scotland believes that quote, the dream will continue, and if anything, it seems to have taken a dunt on Thursday, but looking wild with hope again some 5 days since the loss.

Over 50,000 people (probably more now) have joined pro-independence political parties and movements after Thursday's vote.

People are not wanting a bit here and bit there - they want real and advanced local decision making for Scotland done in Scotland.

[Toepoke]

If I could rip the slide below from the other thread...



What was being proposed in THE VOW was in the environs of the Scotland Bill.

A Yes vote in the referendum would have secured Indy Lite.

I think the SNP will (and should) now be pushing for Devo Max as described above.

(I've no idea where George Galloway's SUPERDEVO would be located on the table above however)...

Edited September 23, 2014 by Toepoke

[scotlad]

After banging on about no more Tory governments as a reason to vote Yes it would be a bit rich to try and knock off Labour seats in a very tight General Election, the net result of which might be to let the Tories in at Westminster. It would also be a waste of time as evidenced by opinion polling at the weekend. The Scottish people have been voting tactically for 30 years now and Labour will again reap the reward of that in 2015.

I think that is quite easy to counter. In my view, the SNP must move further left than Labour - and that isn't hard. The referendum results show that support for independence was highest in traditional Labour areas. If the SNP make a point of highlighting that Labour are little more than Tories in red rosettes - their behaviour during the referendum was plain for all to see - then I think they'll have a chance.

The trouble is, those 'traditional Labour areas' often have Labour MPs in situ boasting substantial majorities. The marginal constituencies that the SNP most probably have their eye on might not necessarily be inclined towards Labour. It perhaps says something when the opinion polls show the Lib Dems losing seats to the SNP rather than Labour.

[EddardStark]

Don't alliances form after elections? They are known as coalitions . Parties stand on manifestos and policies and not single issues. Greens have distinct policies that attract voters. The trade offs between such an alliance would lead to a lot of voter suspicion.

Edited September 24, 2014 by EddardStark

[Mitre]

Reading on a certain Rangers website there that a load of folk intend to vote for Labour in the next 2 elections.

The consensus is that the Nats must be stopped at any cost, even if it means getting into be with L(h)abour.

Likely to be a lot of tactical voting coming up on both sides of the spectrum.

The question is though can the Independence Movement convince enough Labour & Liberal Democrat voter to jump the dyke?

[exile]

If I could rip the slide below from the other thread...

What was being proposed in THE VOW was in the environs of the Scotland Bill.

A Yes vote in the referendum would have secured Indy Lite.

I think the SNP will (and should) now be pushing for Devo Max as described above.

(I've no idea where George Galloway's SUPERDEVO would be located on the table above however)...great chart and was sorely needed

Great chart and was sorely needed 2 weeks ago.

I would disagree that fully indy requires separate head of state. Surely Australia etc are fully independent while retaining Catwoman.

If a Union of Crowns is not fully indy, then you could also say EU membership is not full indy, though that is another argument.

The problem with Indy lite is that it only works if rUK is willing to play ball, and in this case, obviously, they weren't.

[Toepoke]

Don't alliances form after elections? They are known as coalitions . Parties stand on manifestos and policies and not single issues. Greens have distinct policies that attract voters. The trade offs between such an alliance would lead to a lot of voter suspicion.

There are a few examples like the SDP / Liberal Alliance in the early 80s.

The difference here is that a Yes Alliance would primarily be an ideological merger, the main aim of it being to fight for the best deal for Scotland from Westminster.

The party policies at Holyrood would remain exclusive.

[Armchair Bob]

Reading on a certain Rangers website there that a load of folk intend to vote for Labour in the next 2 elections.

The consensus is that the Nats must be stopped at any cost, even if it means getting into be with L(h)abour.

Likely to be a lot of tactical voting coming up on both sides of the spectrum.

The question is though can the Independence Movement convince enough Labour & Liberal Democrat voter to jump the dyke?

Let me get this right. In order to keep the Tories out, some SNP voters will switch to Labour.

Meanwhile in order to punish Labour for now being a poor carbon copy of the Tories, some Labour voters will switch to SNP.

Plus in order to block the SNP from making any progress, some Tory voters will switch to Labour.

What a fecked up country we live in.

[Toepoke]

That's about right.

Interesting to note now that Westminster is now seen as the place to tactically vote, as Holyrood has steadily become more important to us on a day to day basis...

Edited September 24, 2014 by Toepoke

[Armchair Bob]

I can't help feeling the whole unionist/nationalist thing, coupled with having to try in vain to stop the majority in England getting its way, is kind of getting in the way of us doing politics properly.

[ParisInAKilt]

Reading on a certain Rangers website there that a load of folk intend to vote for Labour in the next 2 elections.

The consensus is that the Nats must be stopped at any cost, even if it means getting into be with L(h)abour.

Likely to be a lot of tactical voting coming up on both sides of the spectrum.

The question is though can the Independence Movement convince enough Labour & Liberal Democrat voter to jump the dyke?

1.6 million voted yes. If these people still want independence then there's only one party to vote for in general and Scottish elections.

The battle for all parties is keeping people engaged in politics

Edited September 24, 2014 by ParisInAKilt