ShedTA Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 10 hours ago, Toepoke said: Seemingly Ruth Davidson phoned Theresa May urging her not to bring the DUP on board due to their homophobia. If so fair play to her. Bollocks to that. She as a gay person, is still happy to serve in party that has a dup coalition and openly hates homosexuals. She is a hypocrite of the highest order. It's just sound bites to try and cover her vile shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Ruth Davidson is a cnt. That's pretty much all that needs to be said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 4 hours ago, DonnyTJS said: Very true. FPTP is a flawed system but so are all the alternatives. What's flawed about PR? I've always been uneasy about FPTP. As much as I hate them, UKIP got screwed in 2015. Had something daft like 30% of the popular vote yet god only one MP. That's not fair or representative. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNsTeR Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 11 hours ago, DonnyTJS said: The only reason that May hasn't been turfed out already by the 1922 Committee is that no-one wants to inherit the current unholy mess that she's created. She's the walking dead and she knows it. Any DUP pact faces all sorts of problems in terms of legitimacy (unaccountable for its policies to the vast majority of the country), consistency (the Tory preemptive attacks on theoretical Labour / SNP pacts during previous elections) and morality (as per Toepoke's Ruth Davidson post). I remember the LibLab pacts of the late '70s which had none of the issues the present one has and yet made effective government almost impossible (Calllaghan also bought SNP support with the promise of devolution - which led to the 1979 referendum; it's was the failure of that that enabled Thatcher to call a vote of no confidence, passed by a single vote and triggering the early 1979 General Election and all the fun that followed). I'll be surprised if there isn't another general election within the year, and May won't be leading the Tories into it. The only way it'll be avoided is that there's general agreement across the House on not rocking the boat during Brexit negotiations, but that'll take the sort of self-control that few of 'em are known for. Will Tory hard-brexit backbenchers want to risk another GE? Fear of that is the only thing that'll keep them in line if things look like going soft. more than anything it will be a eye opener for the Ulster Unionists to see how they are truly regarded in the rest of the UK as bigots and backwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bristolhibby said: What's flawed about PR? I've always been uneasy about FPTP. As much as I hate them, UKIP got screwed in 2015. Had something daft like 30% of the popular vote yet god only one MP. That's not fair or representative. J Well, name your PR system - there's plenty to choose from. An obvious flaw in most is the lack of a direct connection between a constituency and a representative. List systems are just jobs for the boys regardless of their competence. Also, with FPTP, at least a fair chunk of the electorate get what they voted for, usually. With the almost inevitable coalitions coming from PR systems no-one gets what they voted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNsTeR Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 11 hours ago, Ormond said: One might think that youngsters were being turned away and votes were tampered with! Rev Campbell reckons nationwide collusion between Labour, Tories and Lib Dems in a effort to unseat SNP MPs saying 2015 was the test run hence the amount of paper candidates that and the fact the 2nd and 3rd place unionist MP was miles behind that and the media giving people instructions on how to tactical vote in certain seats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 35 minutes ago, Bristolhibby said: As much as I hate them, UKIP got screwed in 2015. Had something daft like 30% of the popular vote yet god only one MP. That's not fair or representative. J BTW, I just checked cos that sounded dodgy. UKIP got 12.7% in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 The 2015 Lib Dem vote in Gordon dropped by 13,000 on Thursday. The Tory vote went up 15,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 25 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: The 2015 Lib Dem vote in Gordon dropped by 13,000 on Thursday. The Tory vote went up 15,000. I know a few lib dems who went snp and they can't get their heads round internationalist facing liberals would give up all their moral and political values for giving salmond a bloody nose. Why they couldn't get torys to go the other way I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DonnyTJS said: BTW, I just checked cos that sounded dodgy. UKIP got 12.7% in 2015. Sorry I couldn't remember the percentage, but still 12% of votes and one seat ain't right. Did I remember right, did they actually get more votes than the SNP in 2015? J Edited June 10, 2017 by Bristolhibby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 3 hours ago, DonnyTJS said: Well, name your PR system - there's plenty to choose from. An obvious flaw in most is the lack of a direct connection between a constituency and a representative. List systems are just jobs for the boys regardless of their competence. Also, with FPTP, at least a fair chunk of the electorate get what they voted for, usually. With the almost inevitable coalitions coming from PR systems no-one gets what they voted for. Personally I really like the constituency plus regional list system in the Scottish Parliament. I think it's a good combination of the benefits of PR plus direct local representation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckielugger Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I would go for a multi member STV system along the Irish lines. So areas/counties making up constituencies of say 5 or 6 MPs or so each and then elect on a PR basis via STV within each constituency. If say 5 members to be elected, each party could nominate up to 5 candidates and then voters can select from within a party who they like as well as which party they want to support. If u have a group of 5 being voted for then (i think) you need to get over 1/6 th of the vote to get someone elected, and similarly if a 6 member constituency, over a 1/7 th of the vote....etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) This is BBC Scotland as it's best Currently giving the impression Ruth Davidson is the First Minister as well "insisting" ? 35 seats out of 59 ? Edited June 10, 2017 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 33 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: This is BBC Scotland as it's best Currently giving the impression Ruth Davidson is the First Minister as well "insisting" ? 35 seats out of 59 ? They were insisting this yesterday to. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40210339 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Confidence and supply arrangement agreed with the DUP There is no way this will be allowed to stand for any length of time And thats before Sinn Fein comment - they have already threatened to pull out of the Good Friday agreement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres the pies Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 It would fun if Sinn Fein decided to take there seats at Westminster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 15 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Confidence and supply arrangement agreed with the DUP There is no way this will be allowed to stand for any length of time And thats before Sinn Fein comment - they have already threatened to pull out of the Good Friday agreement Where's that SF statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, wheres the pies said: It would fun if Sinn Fein decided to take there seats at Westminster Already said they won't. That's the platform they got elected on, and intend to fulfil that pledge http://irishpost.co.uk/gerry-adams-confirms-sinn-fein-will-not-swear-allegiance-queen-take-westminster-seats/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, flumax said: Where's that SF statement? On reading back it comes across if they have said that in respect of a Tory/Dup agreement which they havent - yet However they did say this about Brexit - and the DUP favour a hard brexit Speaking to The Independent, Mr Eastwood said: “Our institutions and our Good Friday Agreement are under threat because of Brexit... we think it will be hugely damaging to the peace process in Northern Ireland. I’m not convinced that the British Government are all too concerned about that.” He added: “The European context and the European Union and our joint membership of that with our colleagues across the border is fundamental to the peace process, fundamental to the Good Friday Agreement, fundamental to nationalism’s ability to democratically advance our wishes, so the idea that we can just rip all that apart and it won’t be destabilising – I think that’s fairly naive of the British government to think that’s possible.” Also part of the Good Friday agreement is that the British Government does not favour any political party in Northern Ireland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Whisper it - but does anyone get the feeling Nicola is going to stand down ? 2 hours ago i would have thought it ridiculous but i think she might Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindimoo Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 16 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Whisper it - but does anyone get the feeling Nicola is going to stand down ? 2 hours ago i would have thought it ridiculous but i think she might She looks a little uncomfortable with her decisions. I can see why. But who now? Alex back? That would be the worst scenario. I'm not au faiit with rules. Would it have to be an elected member? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, Mindimoo said: She looks a little uncomfortable with her decisions. I can see why. But who now? Alex back? That would be the worst scenario. I'm not au faiit with rules. Would it have to be an elected member? Can I ask you to explain that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindimoo Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 19 minutes ago, thplinth said: Can I ask you to explain that? Of course. It is a personal opinion but I don't think Mr Salmond is a popular choice. He's seen as the face of independence despite his experience and I personally feel that independence needs to take a back seat for now. I don't really have much to add to that if I'm honest. Just a general observer.. Sorry for a bland response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Have to agree about Salmond - the media made him too divisive and many out there hate him. They have done the same with Sturgeon and also foisted on many the impression that it's all about her which has stuck. They will do the same with whoever is the next leader of the SNP and it will need to be an MP or MSP Having someone who has just lost their seat, however talented, would be a handicap. In hindsight misreading the EU referendum result has been Nicola's big mistake but as i said earlier the SNP cannot now roll back on a pledge to give the people a choice when the consequences of Brexit are known. I didnt agree with him at the time but loose cannon Sillars was right all along He makes some good points https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/11145/jim-sillars-heres-what-snp-and-yes-movement-now-need-do-build-indy-case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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