hampden_loon2878 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: I think we are fighting a lost cause at the moment The Unionist parties and their media allies appear to have beaten enough folk down, diluted some of the hope they had and turned them against the SNP to the Tories FFS The Guardian video (on Youtube) of voters in Moray is soul destroying - granted a large part is of the fishermen Maybe im just buying into their message but i doubt it They ran a similar one in peterhead, i cant find the Moray one.I have no idea how the campaign is going in the central belt, highlands ect,, what i can say is that moray, BnB, gordon and Aberdeenshire seats are all 50/50,, it is not unthinkable for all to fall blue,, its not such the seats that's important but the signal it sends out,, very dire,,, i get a hard time on here for being pessimistic,, maybe thats fair but i think the party have been sleep walking into this for a while now,, nicola said when she was elected that she would listen to everyone in the country but her stance on brexit has alienated a whole swaith of snp voters,,her timing has been awful.My "freind" (i await the ridiculing) posted his posible intension of voting tory yesterday,,, this is a guy who has voted snp all his days,, was a staunch yes man.. even his father had a go at him for even considering it... as if things wernt dire enough that was hard to take,, it would honestly kill if they took BnB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: Edited June 3, 2017 by hampden_loon2878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said: They ran a similar one in peterhead, i cant find the Moray one.I have no idea how the campaign is going in the central belt, highlands ect,, what i can say is that moray, BnB, gordon and Aberdeenshire seats are all 50/50,, it is not unthinkable for all to fall blue,, its not such the seats that's important but the signal it sends out,, very dire,,, i get a hard time on here for being pessimistic,, maybe thats fair but i think the party have been sleep walking into this for a while now,, nicola said when she was elected that she would listen to everyone in the country but her stance on brexit has alienated a whole swaith of snp voters,,her timing has been awful.My "freind" (i await the ridiculing) posted his posible intension of voting tory yesterday,,, this is a guy who has voted snp all his days,, was a staunch yes man.. even his father had a go at him for even considering it... as if things wernt dire enough that was hard to take,, it would honestly kill if they took BnB I have always said that voting yes for independence is about the whole picture here - not just about fisherman's rights and trade deals and such-like. Now if this staunch yes man really wants independence it will only ever happen (for now) by voting SNP. A vote for the Tories is a vote to stay shackled to the union. The SNP are the only main party making that big push for independence. Now should independence ever come about then thereafter your friend can then vte for whoever takes his fancy but right now if he truly wants independence then there is only one party to vote for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weekevie04 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 5 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: I think we are fighting a lost cause at the moment The Unionist parties and their media allies appear to have beaten enough folk down, diluted some of the hope they had and turned them against the SNP to the Tories FFS The Guardian video (on Youtube) of voters in Moray is soul destroying - granted a large part is of the fishermen Maybe im just buying into their message but i doubt it I thought you were predicting the SNP to win 50 plus seats a few weeks back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, weekevie04 said: I thought you were predicting the SNP to win 50 plus seats a few weeks back? Yep - based on polling & going by them they still should However you need to watch the Guardian video - granted they might have only shown interviews that fit the agenda It does put a spoke in my optimism - but maybe thats the intention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 The Guardian's roundup of (UK/London) newspapers' / magazines' stances on the election. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/03/which-parties-are-the-uk-press-backing-in-the-general-election The economist backing the LibDems because of Brexit; FT supporting the Tories despite it. Who will the Scottish Sun support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Yep - based on polling & going by them they still should However you need to watch the Guardian video - granted they might have only shown interviews that fit the agenda It does put a spoke in my optimism - but maybe thats the intention Anything above 40 is a fantastic result, anything below 35 is bad result,,,i will be honest i think the press have over played how much support there is for the snp, knowing full well they are going to lose a lot of seats and when they do it will come as a shock for everyone,,,, The SNP seem to be out of new good ideas, when the election kicked off there was no angles to the election from us in the northeast,, i messaged every single snp hub with one idea i had regarding the closure of rural schools in the are in which the tory councils tried to do back in 2014 in aberdeenshire and moray(I actually started a topic on here regarding it) it looks like they are running with that as a main issue in the area but why did they not have this rammed down our throats in the council elections..wheres the ideas wheres the vision? The "old policies" are losing their shine. Things like the council tax freeze, scrapping bridge tolls, free prescriptions although very good policies are just seen as normal now,, the party need a fresh wave of ideas, what worries me is how intertwined the snp and independence are,, if the snp f#ck up then that is it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said: Anything above 40 is a fantastic result, anything below 35 is bad result,,,i will be honest i think the press have over played how much support there is for the snp, knowing full well they are going to lose a lot of seats and when they do it will come as a shock for everyone,,,, The SNP seem to be out of new good ideas, when the election kicked off there was no angles to the election from us in the northeast,, i messaged every single snp hub with one idea i had regarding the closure of rural schools in the are in which the tory councils tried to do back in 2014 in aberdeenshire and moray(I actually started a topic on here regarding it) it looks like they are running with that as a main issue in the area but why did they not have this rammed down our throats in the council elections..wheres the ideas wheres the vision? The "old policies" are losing their shine. Things like the council tax freeze, scrapping bridge tolls, free prescriptions although very good policies are just seen as normal now,, the party need a fresh wave of ideas, what worries me is how intertwined the snp and independence are,, if the snp f#ck up then that is it.. And the options to the SNP are? Vote Tory and austerity will follow and any possibility of an independence referendum will as sure as eggs are eggs will be binned and you will have MP's elected who are mere puppets for the Westminster branch of their party. NO THANKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 25 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Yep - based on polling & going by them they still should However you need to watch the Guardian video - granted they might have only shown interviews that fit the agenda It does put a spoke in my optimism - but maybe thats the intention That's what John Harris does, goes somewhere speaks to people and puts out what he hears. I doubt there's any real agenda there and you can't dispute the results just because you don't like what they are saying. There was a pretty balanced piece on Reporting Scotland last night - I know - where they interviewed a deep sea fisherman from Peterhead, one of the Buchans who was totally anti EU and anti SNP. They also interviewed an inshore shellfish guy from the west coast who was all for staying in the EU, independence and wanted another referendum. It's interesting that given there's such a deep divide between the two camps that the industry body seems to be so dominated by the deep sea fishermen and that that view is the one that usually hear most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Yougov predict 47 seats for SNP https://yougov.co.uk/uk-general-election-2017/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I think that reading too many opinion polls is turning folks brains to mush. Just ignore the polls. They don't matter. With less than a week to go the only thing that matters is persuading everybody who supports independence to actually get out and vote. Hopefully the weather will be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 17 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Yougov predict 47 seats for SNP https://yougov.co.uk/uk-general-election-2017/ I'd take that right now and do not see that as a disastrous result by any means. Lets remember the SNP have so many seats to defend at a time when unionists are giving a big rallying call to vote tactically plus remember the SNP have been in power for a number of years so obviously you'd think people start itching for change for change sake so 47 seats (more than three quarters of all seats) would still be a position of strength for the SNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 11 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: I'd take that right now and do not see that as a disastrous result by any means. Lets remember the SNP have so many seats to defend at a time when unionists are giving a big rallying call to vote tactically plus remember the SNP have been in power for a number of years so obviously you'd think people start itching for change for change sake so 47 seats (more than three quarters of all seats) would still be a position of strength for the SNP. Change for change sake? Or change because it's been 10 years, and for example, education has gone backwards in that time? Or maybe a bit of both? Agree on 47 seats scenario, nowhere near a disaster. I'm not convinced the seats will go down that much though. Do you think it will? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, BlueGaz said: Change for change sake? Or change because it's been 10 years, and for example, education has gone backwards in that time? Or maybe a bit of both? You do know how the economics of Scotland works ? ANY Scottish Government has one hand tied behind it's back and has to rob peter to pay paul on everything However education has not gone backwards - it all depends which reports you want to believe An ONS report in June 2014 (36 months ago) had Scotland as the best educated country in Europe It's amazing what the threat of Independence can do to a narrative dont you think ? One thing is for sure - If anyone other than the SNP had been or was the Scottish Government things would be infinitely worse The job of Unionist parties is to keep Scotland just shitty enough to keep the myth that we need the Union As they havent been in power Westminster keeps cutting our budget (the percentage of our own money that we get back) to hinder the SNP and daring them to raise taxes to make them unpopular Edited June 3, 2017 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said: And the options to the SNP are? Vote Tory and austerity will follow and any possibility of an independence referendum will as sure as eggs are eggs will be binned and you will have MP's elected who are mere puppets for the Westminster branch of their party. NO THANKS. I don't disagree with that,, but many do,, instead of skipping along the road with our fingers in our ears its time to stop listen and try to persuade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 51 minutes ago, Orraloon said: I think that reading too many opinion polls is turning folks brains to mush. Just ignore the polls. They don't matter. With less than a week to go the only thing that matters is persuading everybody who supports independence to actually get out and vote. Hopefully the weather will be good. Reading the opinion polls is my only point of comfort,, grim. Just had a debate in the tea shack 1v4 me being the 1 snp supporter,, it would more than likely been the opposite way around 2 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 21 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: You do know how the economics of Scotland works ? ANY Scottish Government has one hand tied behind it's back and has to rob peter to pay paul on everything However education has not gone backwards - it all depends which reports you want to believe An ONS report in June 2014 (36 months ago) had Scotland as the best educated country in Europe It's amazing what the threat of Independence can do to a narrative dont you think ? One thing is for sure - If anyone other than the SNP had been or was the Scottish Government things would be infinitely worse The job of Unionist parties is to keep Scotland just shitty enough to keep the myth that we need the Union As they havent been in power Westminster keeps cutting our budget (the percentage of our own money that we get back) to hinder the SNP and daring them to raise taxes to make them unpopular I understand different reports say different things. I haven't read either/any, but FM seemed to accept it as fact on the tele the other night and explained how she was going to make it better. It was teachers explaining it was much worse, not reports. I just accepted that version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 42 minutes ago, BlueGaz said: Change for change sake? Or change because it's been 10 years, and for example, education has gone backwards in that time? Or maybe a bit of both? Agree on 47 seats scenario, nowhere near a disaster. I'm not convinced the seats will go down that much though. Do you think it will? I don't think anybody is claiming the SNP have every post covered but they are out-performing Westminster (run by the Tories) on the NHS, running the prison service, keeping council tax down, offering free prescriptions and most importantly standing up for Scotland at Westminster whereas Tory and Labour Scottish MP's are mere puppets to the Westminster branch of the party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, BlueGaz said: I understand different reports say different things. I haven't read either/any, but FM seemed to accept it as fact on the tele the other night and explained how she was going to make it better. It was teachers explaining it was much worse, not reports. I just accepted that version. Another thing See all those in Scotland who are set to vote Conservative not notice what a complete arse they have made of England ? When they criticise Scotland's NHS, policing, education et al do they never see the Tory record in England ? Is that what they want for Scotland ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Another thing See all those in Scotland who are set to vote Conservative not notice what a complete arse they have made of England ? When they criticise Scotland's NHS, policing, education et al do they never see the Tory record in England ? Is that what they want for Scotland ? That hits the nail on the head. Edited June 3, 2017 by Caledonian Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 33 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Another thing See all those in Scotland who are set to vote Conservative not notice what a complete arse they have made of England ? When they criticise Scotland's NHS, policing, education et al do they never see the Tory record in England ? Is that what they want for Scotland ? I appreciate your POV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 50 minutes ago, BlueGaz said: I appreciate your POV. no prob Wings Over ScotlandVerified account @WingsScotland Unionists! Has it occurred to you that if there's another indyref you could just vote No again, rather than burning the entire country down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weekevie04 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 4 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: Yep - based on polling & going by them they still should However you need to watch the Guardian video - granted they might have only shown interviews that fit the agenda It does put a spoke in my optimism - but maybe thats the intention Fair dues. Think if the SNP can get 44% plus out to vote they should keep many seats. Due to last time there's surely going to be lost seats. Each to their own, but I'd go with : Under 40- disappointing. 40-45 - decent 45-49 - very good 50+ - an excellent night. On the same scale as the 2015 result. Think we'll see a few losses, and don't think it'll be as simple as Perth/Moray etc. Maybe a few Labour wins in the likes of Cumbernauld, East Lothian? Then again there's a few three way marginals where the SNP could sneak it eg Renfrew, Ed South, etc. Who knows though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Few interesting polls rolling out tonight, one subsple having labour in Scotland higher than the torys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of Paisley Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 hour ago, weekevie04 said: Fair dues. Think if the SNP can get 44% plus out to vote they should keep many seats. Due to last time there's surely going to be lost seats. Each to their own, but I'd go with : Under 40- disappointing. 40-45 - decent 45-49 - very good 50+ - an excellent night. On the same scale as the 2015 result. Think we'll see a few losses, and don't think it'll be as simple as Perth/Moray etc. Maybe a few Labour wins in the likes of Cumbernauld, East Lothian? Then again there's a few three way marginals where the SNP could sneak it eg Renfrew, Ed South, etc. Who knows though. Paisley seats are nowhere near three way marginals. Newlands and Mhairi are shoe ins. Unless you are referring to East Ren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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