Ally Bongo Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) One of the most galling things is that the truth was told when the tragedy was happening John Motson stated live on air that he had been told ticketless fans had burst through a gate which had caused the crush Moments later a couple of fans on the pitch with their stub intact tickets in hand approached the BBC trackside camera (you can still watch this on Youtube) and relayed how the Police had opened the gate and subsequently caused the crush One guy pleads with the camera crew that it is now up to them to report the truth as they have witnessed it but Duckenfield was allowed to lie for years about it despite the CCTV footage and other eye witness testimony Edited May 10, 2016 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGHTOWER 1314 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Shocking stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 11 hours ago, saintsparky said: I was at Saints v Rangers semi final at Parkead that day. I remember coming out of the ground and hearing all the news reports. All the pubs in Perth that night were showing the scenes on the TV's and No-one could believe it. It was a very sombre atmosphere all night..... I was at that game too, in the main stand (my old man had got compos from a pal). There was a point early in the game when the cops and ambulance men were attending what appeared to be a crush amongst Rangers fans over at end of the west terrace. We got back to the car and put Radio Clyde on and they were talking about fans dying in a terracing crush, and our immediate thoughts were it had happened at Parkhead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) What would have happened if Duckenfield had not given the order to open the gate? It did seem things at the turnstiles were turning very nasty. The part about one of the policeman swearing on the radio at that point "FFS feckin do something" or whatever it was and the other saying that swearing just never happened it was never done. There must have been massive pressure to open that gate. I think duckenfield was doomed long before he opened that gate. That is a death trap of a ground (or at least that part of it back then). The removal of the previous expert copper with vast experience was the real act of negligence compounded with his replacement with clueless Duckenfield. What amazes me is that the fans really were blameless. How decent the low level coppers came across on the program, how incredibly evil and ruthless the upper echelons on the police and politicians behaved in comparison. That is a real window into the prejudice and 'us and them' mentality that existed at that time (and now). And they won. Look around. Edited May 11, 2016 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Agree with this. I dont think opening gate C could really be avoided and it had actually happened before. As you say though, someone with the correct experience would have known the consequences and prevented the disaster. All of that was bad enough but it was the lie and attempt to smear the fans that makes this a criminal act imo and the reason a few of them should be doing jail time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 This was a ground that was well known to be dangerous when overcrowded. The way it was set up beforehand. The way it was dealt with on the day. The way it was dealt with afterward. A conspiracy theorist might find these fertile grounds. The disaster paved the way for quite a bit of tory favourable change after all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Angus_Young said: I dont think opening gate C could really be avoided and it had actually happened before. As you say though, someone with the correct experience would have known the consequences and prevented the disaster. Opening the gate would have been fine if the tunnel to the central pens had been blocked off and fans directed to the wing entrances. One thing I'm not sure of is if there were stewards there or was it left to the police to carry out those duties?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 It's unbelievable that 10,100 people were supposed to get through 7 turnstiles. They had someone estimating that 3:40 was the earliest they could've got all those people in the ground. There are so many mistakes, choosing Hillsborough in the 1st place being one of the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 11 hours ago, Toepoke said: Opening the gate would have been fine if the tunnel to the central pens had been blocked off and fans directed to the wing entrances. One thing I'm not sure of is if there were stewards there or was it left to the police to carry out those duties?... Yup. The lack of planning was frightening. A crush had happened in this stadium a few years previous yet there seemed to be almost no preparation for a similar incident. I can't believe that there was no control over how many people entered those central pens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 11 hours ago, Toepoke said: Opening the gate would have been fine if the tunnel to the central pens had been blocked off and fans directed to the wing entrances. One thing I'm not sure of is if there were stewards there or was it left to the police to carry out those duties?... I think most of the reports state there was a handful of coppers outside and not much else. One thing I think worth mentioning is that although Duckenfield clearly had no clue what he was doing the procedures were far from perfect at the previous semi finals in 1981 and 1988 where fans ended up pitch side in '81and reports of mass overcrowding in the central pens at both games. I suppose that's what makes the disaster all the more galling. 26 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: It's unbelievable that 10,100 people were supposed to get through 7 turnstiles. They had someone estimating that 3:40 was the earliest they could've got all those people in the ground. There are so many mistakes, choosing Hillsborough in the 1st place being one of the first. Aye I'm sure it was something like 45% of the tickets but only 27% of the turnstiles for Liverpool fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 There's 6 turnstiles for the east stand at fir park? Probably has maximum 1500-2000 in it, and it's always queued round the block (particularly at midweek games). Im trying to imagine the carnage of fitting the entire crowd for one of the Celtic games through that one set of turnstiles. It's incredibly bad planning. It almost seems like they were happy to carry on, as nobody had been killed the last time, which is hardly a measure of a successfully run event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 24 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: There's 6 turnstiles for the east stand at fir park? Probably has maximum 1500-2000 in it, and it's always queued round the block (particularly at midweek games). Im trying to imagine the carnage of fitting the entire crowd for one of the Celtic games through that one set of turnstiles. It's incredibly bad planning. It almost seems like they were happy to carry on, as nobody had been killed the last time, which is hardly a measure of a successfully run event. A Liverpool fan wrote to his MP and the FA after the 1988 game. Unsurprisingly both claimed not to have received it. Really really unlucky for two letters to go missing innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) It was a death trap unless very carefully policed. What Duckenfield did was essentially nothing. The death trap was already working when he was 'forced' to open the gate due to a crush developing at the turnstiles. Would people have died and in such large numbers at the turnstiles had the gate remained shut. Probably not. He just seemed to not have a clue how dangerous the ground could be. The people who put him in charge really need to be held accountable for that decision given how dangerous the ground had already proven itself to be when overcrowded. The Iranians have accused the Saudis of deliberately causing the Mina crush. I think if you had experience policing large crowds and how to avoid these crush situations it would not be very difficult to go the other way and put conditions in place that would engineer one. With Hillsborough all you would have to do is do nothing as the conditions there are so dangerous to begin with. The actions of the senior police before during and after do make me wonder. But probably just grotesque incompetence on their part. By the way that utter feckin khunt who made the joke "Not like Liverpool fans to turn up late" deserves his balls kicked. Really repulsive individual who pretty much sums up the sneering snobby two faced whankers that made various attempts to whitewash it all. Vermin. Edited May 12, 2016 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, thplinth said: By the way that utter feckin khunt who made the joke "Not like Liverpool fans to turn up late" deserves his balls kicked. Really repulsive individual who pretty much sums up the sneering snobby two faced whankers that made various attempts to whitewash it all. Vermin. Thought he'd have slipped this mortal coil by now but it appears he's still with us... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Stuart-Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 King Kenny to receive the Freedom of Liverpool along with Mrs Dalglish (thought he'd have had it already). The 96 victims to receive the same honour along with Prof Scranton. I'd have awarded it to him personally after watching the documentary the other night... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-36276885 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Does the freedom of a city actually give you anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 7 hours ago, Kirk said: Does the freedom of a city actually give you anything? Probably the same as a Knighthood or MBE etc. It's a symbolic gesture to recognise a persons contribution to a certain field/area/subject/cause etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyDenoon Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I think he'll be allowed to drive his sheep and/or cattle through the streets any time he likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 8 hours ago, Fairbairn said: Probably the same as a Knighthood or MBE etc. It's a symbolic gesture to recognise a persons contribution to a certain field/area/subject/cause etc. Aye from what I read its nothing but a pointless title. Not trying to take away from what has been done as obviously in its day it was seen as an honour and I get why they have done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstevie007 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Just watched the documentary that people were mentioning earlier. The police incompetence even extends to their attempts at the cover up. If you're going to alter official statements why the hell would you leave the originals in the box with the doctored ones? The dignity and stoicism of the families is quite incredible and the strength it's taken to keep fighting would be beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibelieve!!! Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I see a man has been arrested and charged with wearing an offensive t-shirt!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-36412814 Supt Kevin Purcell, of West Mercia Police, said: "I understand the alarm and distress the offensive language shown on this T-shirt will have caused to both the people in and around the pub and further afield." How can people further afield be offended by something they never saw?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Absolute tadger, who will now end up with a criminal record for it. Personally not really been a fan of involving the Polis in something like this. A good solid kicking would have been more appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 He shouldn't have been charged but at the same time it's hard to manage when you have arseholes like that just walking about with really inflammatory stuff, that bumping into the wrong folk could cause things to kick off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I see folk have got his address and ordered things like 40 cans of lilt to his door, bouncy castles, the lot. Probably some right sinister stuff as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 3 hours ago, ibelieve!!! said: I see a man has been arrested and charged with wearing an offensive t-shirt!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-36412814 Supt Kevin Purcell, of West Mercia Police, said: "I understand the alarm and distress the offensive language shown on this T-shirt will have caused to both the people in and around the pub and further afield." How can people further afield be offended by something they never saw?! He has loads of tweets (so hungover from celebrating 96 scousers dying) and other shirts about liverpool fans being home having sex with their kids. Seems like he wears them out and about and laughs at the reactions. This one is a belter for him top laugh at now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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