Catalunya Bona Sort

[EddardStark]

The lack of coverage in our media on this is a disgrace. Bad when we need an Arabian outlet to keep us up to date.

And are folk seriously trying to bring football teams into this decision? Catalan teams could easily continue as is. Seems to work fine in the NHL for Canada and The US.

Good coverage on EuroNews.

[DaveyDenoon]

The lack of coverage in our media on this is a disgrace. Bad when we need an Arabian outlet to keep us up to date.

And are folk seriously trying to bring football teams into this decision? Catalan teams could easily continue as is. Seems to work fine in the NHL for Canada and The US.

Why on earth would the BBC want to show coverage of something that might inspire the sensible people of Scotland to work harder to demand independence? Something that might make the selfish cowards who voted No realise the error of their ways?

Much better to keep schtum and hope that us rabble rousers and troublemakers in the Yes camp give up quietly and realise our place is indeed to just do as we are told and stop making a noise.

Can't be giving those pesky separatists more ideas or more justification for Scotland becoming independent. That would never do.

[Stapes]

This will be decided in the courts.

Can't see the pro-Indy parties stepping into a courthouse.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Stapes

[caledonian1]

This will be decided in the courts.

I suspect the same would happen here if we had too quick a second referendum to decide which referendum is (more) legitimate. Just remember the Aberdeen bypass was held up be one twat and his failed legal case for about four years.

The more important FC Barcelona issue would be the beginning of merged-national leagues. The Spanish league sans-Barca would be greatly diminished and could not be allowed to happen.

I suspect this is a non issue for the Catalans deciding the future of their country....it is far far more important than football. Anyway the Spanish league needs them as much as Barca need the league......Swansea play in the EPL so it is not exactly without precedent.

I fly to Barcelona on Friday as competing in IM Barcelona next Sunday.......got a spare Yes sticker that I could wear on my run shirt

[iainmac1]

The main separatist alliance are forecasted to get 63-66 seats. They will be the biggest group but its not enough will not give an outright majority. Also opinion polls make are pretty even on seceding from Spain although the vast majority want a referendum to give them the choice.

There is a BBC translation of their name!

The 'Together for Yes' alliance is what I am sure you meant...

[EddardStark]

There is a BBC translation of their name!

The 'Together for Yes' alliance is what I am sure you meant...

they want to separate . That is a fact.

[iainmac1]

they want to separate . That is a fact.

They want independence. That is a fact. I don't think I have ever heard them say they want to separate.

Edited September 27, 2015 by iainmac1

[bonzo]

Scotland, Catalonia, Basque Republic, Wales, Flanders, Wallonia, Corsica, Sardinia .............

Why shouldn't the 21st Century see the rise of new/re-born nations in Europe ?

well said

[Orraloon]

Barca have said that they'll play in France if it happens.

Amazing how many problems can be solved with Qatari Money

But could the Spanish league survive without 4 El Classicos every year? I predict Armageddon.

[kumnio]

But could the Spanish league survive without 4 El Classicos every year? I predict Armageddon.

It currently manages just fine with only the two that get played though.

[iainmac1]

It's a Yes!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34372548

Had to search through the site to find this!

[wwta2007.com]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/catalonia-separatists-lead-exit-polls-150927190807958.html

Catalunya has shown how these things should be done. People Power. Nae 60% pi$h. Nae Referendum Pi$h.

Jist People Power.

Respecte ! Catalunya !

[buckielugger]

Again SEPARATION is always the term used by those opposing the self determination of sovereign peoples.

Catalonia isn't separating..is is JOINING the family of nations.

That is what Scotland should have been (and still should be) doing.

Well done the Catalans !

And they have had the sense to get the mandate for UDI if Spain does not accept their independence.

The USA has done rather well out of declaring independence...and its ruling parliament did not accept that either (ie our old friend, Westminster).

And as I have a Catalan daughter-in-law I am particularly thrilled for her and her family.

Her Dad is a massive supporter of Catalan independence and will be celebrating tonight in Barcelona.

"We're getting rid of the fcking king" as he eloquently told me recently

[buckielugger]

And I think the Balearics come under Catalonia?

Also maybe one or two French departments could also join in?

The same with the Basques being cross border.

It would be great to see the Basques in France and Spain get together and have a joint vote to leave their current nation states. ..truly all the Basques in one Exit !!

[Kirk]

Delighted for them. Wish we had a set of balls last year.

[buckielugger]

Instead of a set of balls, all we got was a load of balls...from Brown and his fellow lying Vow'ers...

But yes we still should have stood up to them and gone for it.

Maybe this UDI mandate method is our next way forward.

56 out of 59 MPs would have been an overwhelming mandate IF it such a mandate had been within the SNP's manifesto.

For next May, Nicola has to include it somehow.

Maybe in the form of "we will hold another Independence referendum when the time is judged right (ie polls show a win) and further that if Westminster does not authorise that referendum then the Scottish Parliament will be mandated to declare UDI. "

After all it was the Scottish Parliament that voted independence away in the first place...not the people.

[buckielugger]

Out of interest, can any history expert answer how many countries have gained independence via a referendum and how many by a declaration of independence ?

I suspect mostly or overwhelmingly by declaration....

[Charlie Endell]

And I think the Balearics come under Catalonia?

Also maybe one or two French departments could also join in?

The same with the Basques being cross border.

It would be great to see the Basques in France and Spain get together and have a joint vote to leave their current nation states. ..truly all the Basques in one Exit !!

No, modern Catalonia stops at the coast.

[Toepoke]

Delighted for them. Wish we had a set of balls last year.

A pro independence party has won every election bar one in Scotland since 2007...

[weekevie04]

Spain is exactly the way not to deal with 'sepratists'.

Under 50% of the vote, but a large majority. I read somewhere that 2/3rds of the seats taken in the parliament are from parties who are pro-referendum.

Not sure about UDI or attempting to set up a state with under 50% , but there's no reason for them putting a referendum bill through the parliament, it'll pass with the numbers, and hold it (who cares what Spain says about it being legal).

Anyone more clued up on Spain? What will happen next? Also, has Basque independence stalled? Never seem to hear much about it at present.

[iainmac1]

Spain is exactly the way not to deal with 'sepratists'.

Under 50% of the vote, but a large majority. I read somewhere that 2/3rds of the seats taken in the parliament are from parties who are pro-referendum.

Not sure about UDI or attempting to set up a state with under 50% , but there's no reason for them putting a referendum bill through the parliament, it'll pass with the numbers, and hold it (who cares what Spain says about it being legal).

Anyone more clued up on Spain? What will happen next? Also, has Basque independence stalled? Never seem to hear much about it at present.

It's very interesting what will happen now. Obviously a referendum would be preferable but Spain will say it is unofficial and the no sides will boycott it which makes it pointless having one pretty much.

I imagine they will go the UDI route which may, but still unlikely, force Spain into an official referendum.

The slight problem that the Yes side have is that only 48% of the actual vote went to Yes parties. 39% went to No parties. another 11% went to pro referendum parties.

All a bit messy really if Spain continue to refuse an official referendum.

I was thinking about the Basque region yesterday. I always viewed them as far more pro independence than Catalonia but there doesn't seem to have been the same push for independence there. Not one that is visable on social media anyway. You would imagine they would have tried a similar route as well as the Catalans have.

[wwta2007.com]

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/franco-captures-barcelona

“ During the Spanish Civil War, Barcelona, the Republican capital of Spain, fell to the Fascist Nationalist forces of Franco in Jan 1939. During the first five years of the republic from 1931, organized labor and leftist radicals forced widespread liberal reforms as independence-minded Spanish regions such as Catalonia and the Basque provinces achieved virtual autonomy. The landed aristocracy, the church, and a large military clique increasingly employed violence in their opposition. July 1936, General Francisco Franco led a right-wing army revolt in Morocco, which prompted the division of Spain into two key camps: the Nationalists and the Republicans.

Franco’s Nationalist forces rapidly overran much of the Republican-controlled areas in central and northern Spain, and Catalonia became a key Republican stronghold. During 1937, Franco unified the Nationalist forces under the command of the Falange, Spain’s fascist party, while the Republicans fell under the sway of the communists. Germany and Italy aided Franco with an abundance of planes, tanks, and arms, while the Soviet Union aided the Republican side.

[barcelona was heavily bombed in Mar 1938 by fascist aircraft causing 3,000+ casualties]

In June 1938, the Nationalists drove to the Mediterranean Sea and cut the Republicans’ territory in two. Later in the year, Franco mounted a major offensive against Catalonia. In January 1939, its capital, Barcelona, was captured, and soon after the rest of Catalonia fell. With their cause all but lost, the Republicans attempted to negotiate a peace, but Franco refused.. Up to a million lives were lost in the conflict, the most devastating in Spanish history.”

So what ? Catalunya and the Basques were severely crapped on by Franco’s fascists during the Civil War and up to Franco’s death in 1973. Therefore, all of this anti-Madrid sentiment is within living memory.

The current President of the Spanish govt is Rajoy who was spawned from a right-wing, Jesuit background stereotypical of the Franco black times. His Spanish Nationalist party (PP) is pretty similar to Dave (Pig-Fckr) Cameron’s Brit Nat Tories whilst both parties specialise in anti-self-determination rhetoric and propaganda. Rajoy’s politics were formed by the right-wing Peoples Alliance, set up by Franco supporters.

ETA assassinated Franco’s anointed successor, Blanco, in 1973. This led to King Juan Carlos being head of state by 1975. Rajoy refuses to deal with ETA. In fact, Rajoy was one of the first to blame ETA for the Madrid bombings in 2004 – it was Al Qaeda….

Clearly there is no love lost between Madrid and Barcelona/Bilbao. They have a different dimension dividing them, based on fascist rule, which we fortunately didn’t. I think it’s one major reason why Catalunya have an edge to their struggle against an aggressive Madrid that compels them to tell a reactionary Rajoy to fck right off. I hope they succeed.

Jock Cunningham and George Aitken would probably agree. They were Scots commanders in the International Brigade who fought against Franco’s scum.

[Stapes]

I was in Spain at the time of Franco's death on holiday (actually 1975) and the whole country essentially shut down. I vaguely remember that a basic service was provided by the hotel and the pool was obviously open. Bit of a wasted holiday lol.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Stapes

[deecie]

I was in Spain at the time of Franco's death on holiday (actually 1975) and the whole country essentially shut down. I vaguely remember that a basic service was provided by the hotel and the pool was obviously open. Bit of a wasted holiday lol.

Do you have an alibi for that night?

[Stapes]

Do you have an alibi for that night?

Somebody had to do it. Just not this six year old lol.