exile Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Judges to deliberate on Carmichael case after court evidence ends http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-34787736 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilser Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Shows you what the Lib Dems are all about when there's not been the slightest hint of them doing anything about disciplining Carmichael for blatant lying, not only to C4 News but also to the Cabinet Office inquiry. Edited November 11, 2015 by neilser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 In a way it might be better if Carmichael gets off with it. That verdict might annoy enough folk, enough to get rid of a few more Lib MSPs in May? Maybe? I suppose it might depend a wee bit on timing. If they come back with a verdict before xmas folk might have forgotten all about by May. if the verdict is delayed until into next year it might still be fresh enough in folks minds to make a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 In a way it might be better if Carmichael gets off with it. That verdict might annoy enough folk, enough to get rid of a few more Lib MSPs in May? Maybe? I suppose it might depend a wee bit on timing. If they come back with a verdict before xmas folk might have forgotten all about by May. if the verdict is delayed until into next year it might still be fresh enough in folks minds to make a difference? Whatever happens, I think that the stench of Carmichael will long linger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 In a way it might be better if Carmichael gets off with it. That verdict might annoy enough folk, enough to get rid of a few more Lib MSPs in May? Maybe? I suppose it might depend a wee bit on timing. If they come back with a verdict before xmas folk might have forgotten all about by May. if the verdict is delayed until into next year it might still be fresh enough in folks minds to make a difference? I think your average voter doesn't care that much about this, to be honest. They just see it as the SNP attacking the Lib Dems. I know that's wrong but i think that's how it's perceived by many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 In a way it might be better if Carmichael gets off with it. That verdict might annoy enough folk, enough to get rid of a few more Lib MSPs in May? The LibDems are pumped in May whatever the verdict... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 A LibDem would lie to his Granny, and think nothing of it. Utter scumbags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I actually voted LibDem once, away back in 1987 or whenever. I feel dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I think your average voter doesn't care that much about this, to be honest. They just see it as the SNP attacking the Lib Dems. I know that's wrong but i think that's how it's perceived by many. Aye, I think you're right but it is how it is perceived by Lib Dem voters that counts. I think the way he has behaved has pissed a lot of them off and if he is seen to be getting away with it, that might piss off a few more of them. It might not be enough to persuade them to vote for another party instead but they might decide that they can't vote again for folk who behave like this? In my experience the vast majority of ordinary Lib Dem members are very decent people, who have in recent years, been badly let down by the politicians who represent them. I would like to see these lying, treacherous , Toryhelpers wiped out in May so that what's left of the Lib Dem membership can rebuild from grassroots again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 A LibDem would lie to his Granny, Who hasnae done that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I actually voted LibDem once, away back in 1987 or whenever. I feel dirty. Is that one of the most difficult admissions you've ever made? Respect. Admitting, in public, that you have a problem is the first step on the road to recovery. You will never feel totally clean again though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Aye, I think you're right but it is how it is perceived by Lib Dem voters that counts. I think the way he has behaved has pissed a lot of them off and if he is seen to be getting away with it, that might piss off a few more of them. It might not be enough to persuade them to vote for another party instead but they might decide that they can't vote again for folk who behave like this? In my experience the vast majority of ordinary Lib Dem members are very decent people, who have in recent years, been badly let down by the politicians who represent them. I would like to see these lying, treacherous , Toryhelpers wiped out in May so that what's left of the Lib Dem membership can rebuild from grassroots again. Fair points. I don't know anyone who voted Lib Dem, so i've no idea how they view it all. I imagine there will be the tribal ones (every party has them) who'll stick up for their man no matter what. However i'd expect the more level headed, less-staunch ones would be a bit peeved off at Carmichael's behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I voted for them in 2010, wasn't long before I regretted it. Carmichael lying is one thing, but refusing to resign or be kicked out by his party is beyond contempt to the electorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Och Aye Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I actually voted LibDem once, away back in 1987 or whenever. I feel dirty. Shocking! Self punishment is your only chance of forgiveness. I'm thinking along the lines of that mad monk in The Da Vinci Code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 2 out of my 3 closest friends at uni voted Lib Dems. They felt duped and hated having to listen to my crowing about how i told them so. I doubt either of them are voters now, this was before they went into coalition. If anyone is interested in "deeper" politics, should check out the acquaintances of Nick Cleggs faither and school Nick went to etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I voted for Tam Dayell once and by virtue of that helped Tony Blair into power. Probably one of the most thoughtless things i've done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I actually voted LibDem once, away back in 1987 or whenever. I feel dirty. My name is Rossy........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) If the case is thrown out, it will be seen as Lib Dems vindicated, that it was a political witch-hunt, and the poor guy has suffered enough, and lying is no big deal If the case wins, a by election result will not be a foregone conclusion, but it won't either be a re-run of the general election - as the Lib Dems will have a new clean candidate, and not a disgraced one they would have had, if he had been found out before the GE Still, the case was brought on a point of principle, rather than party political gain, and at least would allow the electorate to make their own minds up Edited November 12, 2015 by exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'd say the Lib Dems are a complete busted flush on the Scottish Mainland and I think the GE proved that in May. Unless anything dramatically changes - and their is no real evidence of that happening - then they will lose all their FPTP seats and their list vote will be dramatically reduced. The only real doubt is over Tavish Scott and Liam McArthur. I may be wrong in this but I think Shetland is slightly more Nationalist leaning than Orkney. There's a lot of mud being thrown at Tavish Scott about when and what he knew about the leak which I think he'll have real problems getting out from under it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The lib dems turned everyone who voted for them into someone you could ridicule for gullibility. Never a good idea as a political party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I actually voted LibDem once, away back in 1987 or whenever. I feel dirty. I think they were still the SDP then, you may have earned a reprieve... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 If the case wins, a by election result will not be a foregone conclusion, but it won't either be a re-run of the general election - as the Lib Dems will have a new clean candidate, and not a disgraced one they would have had, if he had been found out before the GE Carmichael might stand again? I think he might just be arrogant enough and selfish enough to try it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I think they were still the SDP then, you may have earned a reprieve... ...debatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Carmichael might stand again? I think he might just be arrogant enough and selfish enough to try it? If the election court finds against Carmichael then he would be barred from standing in any subsequent by-election. One other thing that seems to be being overlooked is that there is still an investigation by the Parliamentary Standards Commision outstanding. Presumably this is on hold so as not to prejudice the Election Court. However given that he's already admitted himself that he breached the ministerial code, that should be a slam dunk. If they decide to suspend him then the constituents should be able to mount a petition to recall him and force a by-election that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return of Yermaw Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 If the election court finds against Carmichael then he would be barred from standing in any subsequent by-election. One other thing that seems to be being overlooked is that there is still an investigation by the Parliamentary Standards Commision outstanding. Presumably this is on hold so as not to prejudice the Election Court. However given that he's already admitted himself that he breached the ministerial code, that should be a slam dunk. If they decide to suspend him then the constituents should be able to mount a petition to recall him and force a by-election that way. was it not the same Parliamentary Standards Commission who assessed that Malcolm Rifkind and Jack Straw had done nothing wrong and had no conflict of interests when prostituting themselves for work ahead of the last election. i am pretty sure they will help Carmichael out similarly - he is in effect one of their own...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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