Fred_Zeppelin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Or the fact that Celtic are happy to employ a racist? I'm sure those fans who threw banana's from the jungle will be supportive. Good grief!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 That's the point though mate, I'm not actually judging it one way or they other. Please don't think for one second I'm condoning this sort of thing or trying to defend it. I can remember reading an article a month or so ago saying the case was probably going to be dropped due to lack off evidence to support any claims. Totally take your point regarding Logan, but McIness and Aberdeen FC? They are surely just backing their player in the same way Celtic are no? Unless McIness did actually hear it as well given how close it was the the touchline. Guy at my work again has just said it was apparently clear as day to Tonev's connotations although again what was actually said remains a mystery. The thing that I find strange is that if the evidence was so overwhelmingly conclusive as to warrant a 7 match ban, why are Celtic appealling? One theory (again coming from the same Celtic fan) is that Logan has apparently changed his statement since making the initial complaint. A question for all on this thread. What do we make of the punishment? Should it be more? Should he be sacked? If there is conclusive proof he should be sacked and that's a given. If the proof is not conclusive though, he should not be given 7 games or even any games, that's for sure. Irrespective of the team he plays for, you cannot hang a guy on the basis of presumption or supposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty CTA Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) The pair were direct opponents for much of the match and Englishman Logan is understood to have told referee Bobby Madden that Tonev said to him: 'Get your hands off me, you black c***.' Logan, 26, was left so incensed by the alleged confrontation with Tonev that after alerting Madden he also directed Dons skipper Mark Reynolds to take up the matter formally with the match official.He then informed his manager Derek McInnes, with the Aberdeen management team alerting fourth official Crawford Allan as well as Celtic to the allegation. Edited October 31, 2014 by Scotty CTA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cove_Sheep Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 The pair were direct opponents for much of the match and Englishman Logan is understood to have told referee Bobby Madden that Tonev said to him: 'Get your hands off me, you black c***.' Logan, 26, was left so incensed by the alleged confrontation with Tonev that after alerting Madden he also directed Dons skipper Mark Reynolds to take up the matter formally with the match official. He then informed his manager Derek McInnes, with the Aberdeen management team alerting fourth official Crawford Allan as well as Celtic to the allegation. Again, surely there would be a requirement for more than that to do him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty CTA Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Agreed. Folk were asking what was allegedly said, so I went back and copied and pasted from an article at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Agreed. Folk were asking what was allegedly said, so I went back and copied and pasted from an article at the time. Where is that article from Scotty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty CTA Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2755756/Celtic-deny-claims-Aleksandar-Tonev-racially-abused-Aberdeen-s-Shay-Logan.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus_Young Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 The pair were direct opponents for much of the match and Englishman Logan is understood to have told referee Bobby Madden that Tonev said to him: 'Get your hands off me, you black c***.' Logan, 26, was left so incensed by the alleged confrontation with Tonev that after alerting Madden he also directed Dons skipper Mark Reynolds to take up the matter formally with the match official. He then informed his manager Derek McInnes, with the Aberdeen management team alerting fourth official Crawford Allan as well as Celtic to the allegation. Apparently this is the statement that Logan back tracked on and was forced to admit he wasn't actually sure if those exact words had been used......which is why Celtic appealed. Again though I'll stress I've no idea if the source carries any substance or not. Also have the feeling there must be more to it than that as that story definitely reads 'You said that/Naw I didnae' and surely wouldn't be enough to find someone guilty or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenAngus Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Apparently this is the statement that Logan back tracked on and was forced to admit he wasn't actually sure if those exact words had been used......which is why Celtic appealed. Again though I'll stress I've no idea if the source carries any substance or not. Also have the feeling there must be more to it than that as that story definitely reads 'You said that/Naw I didnae' and surely wouldn't be enough to find someone guilty or not? Surely if Logan was unsure of the exact words the case would have faded away with no hearing? Seems that nobody outwith the clubs and SFA really know how the case was presented and presided over leading to a lot of folk guessing at what the story is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAS Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Why are the SFA judge, jury and executioner for such an alleged crime? Rossy touched on it earlier but why aren't the police and courts involved? They should be the ones investigating and handing out any punishment. Any alleged racism in the stands will get you an appearance at the Sheriff court. Only after the official verdict the relevant football authorities can decide what action to take. Of course, if the procurator fiscal don't believe there's enough evidence for a conviction, the SFA should heed this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Of course, if the procurator fiscal don't believe there's enough evidence for a conviction, the SFA should heed this.Criminal prosecutions require guilt to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. The SFA judgement against Tonev will on the balance of probabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Why are the SFA judge, jury and executioner for such an alleged crime? Rossy touched on it earlier but why aren't the police and courts involved? They should be the ones investigating and handing out any punishment. Any alleged racism in the stands will get you an appearance at the Sheriff court. Only after the official verdict the relevant football authorities can decide what action to take. Of course, if the procurator fiscal don't believe there's enough evidence for a conviction, the SFA should heed this. Yeah, I must admit I was going on the presumption that to be found guilty of a serious charge like this, there must have been overwhelming evidence....and if that is the case, why weren't the police involved. Of course, when I thought about it, it's true (as Parkie says) that the SFA aren't a court of law. The level of proof needed isn't necessarily the same. Criminal prosecutions require guilt to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. The SFA judgement against Tonev will on the balance of probabilities. Dat true dat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cove_Sheep Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Something doesn't quite add up in all of this. I am also pretty certain Celtic will have actually taken this accusation seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macy37 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 If, and it's a big if, Tonev is not guilty what size of ban will Logan receive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 If, and it's a big if, Tonev is not guilty what size of ban will Logan receive? Sad thing is, there are probably loads of Celtic fans who are actually thinking this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macy37 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Why is it sad? If he did it he should be chased to the hills. If Logan made the allegation up should he be allowed to just carry on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cove_Sheep Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I would doubt that could even be proved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 If, and it's a big if, Tonev is not guilty what size of ban will Logan receive? Why would he be banned? If there isn't enough evidence to find tonev guilty there certainly wouldn't be enough evidence to suggest Logan is lying. I think his reaction at the time shows that whatever was said bothered him enough to react in the manner he did. I'm neutral on the matter, I have no allegiances to either side but I'm inclined to believe shay Logan's story purely due to his initial reaction and the previous track record of Eastern Europeans with regards to racism. ( that last sentence sounds slightly racist itself!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 It's farcical that Celtic is being run like this by the clowns at the top. He was found guilty, therefore, ironically, i'd like to send him back from whence he came, get him back to Villa. It's no gonna happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Why is it sad? If he did it he should be chased to the hills. If Logan made the allegation up should he be allowed to just carry on? Tragic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAS Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Criminal prosecutions require guilt to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. The SFA judgement against Tonev will on the balance of probabilities. That says to me that if someone in the SFA don't like you or the club you represent, you're probably guilty. Fills ye with confidence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynnyboy Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Patrice evra has previous for making spurious claims of racist abuse up. It does happen. Not saying Logan has here but the evidence as far as I can see is non existent and has also been altered by Logan. If tonev is guilty he should be hammered and sent back to villa. It is certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that he is innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenAngus Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Patrice evra has previous for making spurious claims of racist abuse up. It does happen. Not saying Logan has here but the evidence as far as I can see is non existent and has also been altered by Logan. If tonev is guilty he should be hammered and sent back to villa. It is certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that he is innocent. Proof please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynnyboy Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Proof please. As far as I see it is one persons word vs another's. Therefore no substantive evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenAngus Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 As far as I see it is one persons word vs another's. Therefore no substantive evidence. So its your interpretation. I still find the suggestion that if the verdict changes to not proven that Logan should be punished absolutely absurd. All cases of alleged racism should be reported and dealt with by the authorities based on their procedures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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