New SNP leader

[TDYER63]

1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

He has had a year off, and had time to realise what a fukin nightmare that is going to be. 🤣

😂😂

When I seen you had quoted me I thought 🙄 , he is going to shoot me down in flames  and tell me to stop greetin.

That made me laugh. And is entirely plausible! 

[Squirrelhumper]

My tuppence worth is that the SNP know that the next couple of elections are going to be painful, there is ongoing police investigations and that Swinney is there as a patsy to see that through. He could end up in court giving evidence right enough. 

More i think of it, probably wise of Forbes to steer clear until this self inflicted shit show is over. 

[Orraloon]

25 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

My tuppence worth is that the SNP know that the next couple of elections are going to be painful, there is ongoing police investigations and that Swinney is there as a patsy to see that through. He could end up in court giving evidence right enough. 

More i think of it, probably wise of Forbes to steer clear until this self inflicted shit show is over. 

That could happen whether he is First Minister or not.

[hampden_loon2878]

Disappointed to say the least, I trust her judgement however swinney is not going to come out unscathed from the sturgeon saga 

[scotlad]

2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

If I send you a stamped address envelope can you return some of that positivity to me 😁

I agree that there is not one stand out candidate, and I really dont want it to sound like I am out the door because my choice isn’t getting the gig. I would be absolutely up for any combination I felt would get things back on track. I just cannot get beyond the fact JS was on his way out a year ago and now he is back as the leader . This, for me, is not progress, and why the sudden change of heart ?  The young family he planned to spend more time with are only a year older. 
I don’t have all the concerns about him that some others have ( where the bodies are buried ) but at the same time I cannot say he isn’t implicated in any way. However thats not a deal breaker for me as unless someone has seen some absolute proof its all just hearsay.  I just don’t think he is up to the job. I don’t think he is cut throat enough to fight the opposition and he hasn’t exactly flourished in his previous roles. Being steady is not a bad thing at all, but you need more than that to be a leader. Nothing , however, would give me greater pleasure than being proven wrong. 

I think part of the problem with condescending members is that the SNP has never gone through a crisis like this ( at least not when they have been in such a prominent position) and its like people are trying to gloss over things rather than be realistic. They then become defensive. Thats the main problem for me at branch level at least which is where I have most interaction. 
Hopefully this will be a turning point but I think I will be on the sidelines from now on. 

 

What bothers me is the sudden clamour to have him installed as FM, not just from the party establishment but from people who normally wouldn't see the SNP in their way.

In a sense that could be a good thing: the SNP crowd genuinely might believe he's the best man to lead their party at this moment in time, while others  might just want the country to be governed as efficiently as possible and believe he's the best person for the job. The seemingly almost coordinated attacks on Forbes in the press this week make me suspicious though.

2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

All relates to the early 2000s when Swinney was in charge

Former SNP MP Campbell Martin wrote a book about it

Basically a gradualist/devolutionist and the opposite of the left of centre that he mentioned today 

HJ might be many things but centre-left is pushing things a bit! Wasn't the SNP at its most conservative (post-devolution) when he led the party in the early '00s?

To return to the football manager analogies, this feels a bit like when George Burley - pleasant man, slightly unlucky, but ultimately out of his depth - was sacked as Scotland boss, and despite there being more interesting potential candidates available to replace him, the SFA installed Craig Levein as soon as they got their hands on him. "At least he'll make the team hard to beat", I thought. He won three competitive matches.

[PapofGlencoe]

3 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

If I send you a stamped address envelope can you return some of that positivity to me 😁

I agree that there is not one stand out candidate, and I really dont want it to sound like I am out the door because my choice isn’t getting the gig. I would be absolutely up for any combination I felt would get things back on track. I just cannot get beyond the fact JS was on his way out a year ago and now he is back as the leader . This, for me, is not progress, and why the sudden change of heart ?  The young family he planned to spend more time with are only a year older. 
I don’t have all the concerns about him that some others have ( where the bodies are buried ) but at the same time I cannot say he isn’t implicated in any way. However thats not a deal breaker for me as unless someone has seen some absolute proof its all just hearsay.  I just don’t think he is up to the job. I don’t think he is cut throat enough to fight the opposition and he hasn’t exactly flourished in his previous roles. Being steady is not a bad thing at all, but you need more than that to be a leader. Nothing , however, would give me greater pleasure than being proven wrong. 

I think part of the problem with condescending members is that the SNP has never gone through a crisis like this ( at least not when they have been in such a prominent position) and its like people are trying to gloss over things rather than be realistic. They then become defensive. Thats the main problem for me at branch level at least which is where I have most interaction. 
Hopefully this will be a turning point but I think I will be on the sidelines from now on. 

 

They need to get the corruption out and done with so we can all move on.  It gives bad actors like Wings of Scotland the opportunity to implicate anyone he doesn't like.  He'll be onto Kate Forbes now, you watch.  I'm not convinced he wouldn't be onto her if she was leader either.  He just wants the party dead.  There  is a cohort of carpetbaggers in the SNP only outnumbered by the wreckers who feel better moaning about "baddies" than facing up to the fact independence is favoured by less than half our people, not more.  We need to start talking about independence again, be positive and be competent in government.  

We've got away from the Greens and can attempt a less dogmatic role in policy.  Get rid of the gimmicks.  They need to get on the front foot with the media again.  Talk about the big policies which have positively affected people's lives and then the ones which are still in the offing.  Too much energy is focussed on daft polices from all sides.

Anyway i'm hopeful this will stem the tide.  However it's a simple fact they've been in power nearly 20 years.  They've actually only lost 10% of the vote.  it's not even a complete collapse but there will always be voters you lose over that time.  

 

[hampden_loon2878]

Everything associated with sturgeon needs locked away for good,, there is a clear path back to the centre ground for the SNP,, it needs to be taken 

[Ally Bongo]

4 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

 

Lloyd Quinan was saying the SNP physically corrupted the last leadership election with no evidence.  I just don't find the man credible.

There was evidence of clear bias the last time

What about this leadership election ?

[exile]

10 hours ago, Orraloon said:

One thing we should have learned from the last leadership vote is that we should never again be dragged into the idea of televised debates to appoint the SNP leader. Electing a new SNP leader is a matter for SNP members, and only SNP members, and should have fuk all to do with anybody else. 

I'm happy for the decision and debate to be for SNP members, I'd just prefer that debate (for everyone's sake) to be between two more viable looking candidates representing the future. 

[exile]

11 hours ago, Malcolm said:

nobody said defending gay marriage was loony fringe.  You took that because I said that only the loony fringe of the party would oppose her.  Whilst Kate has personal views that marriage should be between a man and a woman, I don’t think there has ever been any suggestion that she does not accept that society embraces gay marriage and she would not seek to change that.

I don’t see any problem with that.

 

Ok I see what you mean but you did say "Only the loony fringe would have a problem with Kate Forbes in power." But it's a fact that many people do have a problem with her, among those are those who are defending gay marriage and gay rights. If you say 'only the loony fringe' then that must include them.

I only mention it because someone somewhere said something like they didn't understand why someone would have anything against KF. I am just pointing out this is a real reason, felt sincerely by some people, who are not a loony fringe.

BTW I'm not otherwise commenting on her suitability. As I say, that's a matter for SNP members.

 

Edited May 2 by exile

[Haggis_trap]

Despite this week being a car crash I am actually quite positive.
We have come out other side in better shape.

• The toxic and unpopular green coalition is ended
• Swiney in charge until next election.  Swiney is dull but arguably better than Yousaf?  Labour going to win back what ever happens.
• Kate Forbes keeping powder dry for 2026 at Holyrood.  SNP could / should still be largest party at Holyrood.

While I wanted Forbes as leader it is not a terrible state of affairs.  As mentioned above John Swiney likely the patsy who is going to take flak for the Sturgeon saga and a couple of dodgy elections to come.

Forbes is only 35 and her day will come sooner rather than later now.
 

[Ally Bongo]

2 hours ago, Haggis_trap said:

Despite this week being a car crash I am actually quite positive.
We have come out other side in better shape.

• The toxic and unpopular green coalition is ended
• Swiney in charge until next election.  Swiney is dull but arguably better than Yousaf?  Labour going to win back what ever happens.
• Kate Forbes keeping powder dry for 2026 at Holyrood.  SNP could / should still be largest party at Holyrood.

While I wanted Forbes as leader it is not a terrible state of affairs.  As mentioned above John Swiney likely the patsy who is going to take flak for the Sturgeon saga and a couple of dodgy elections to come.

Forbes is only 35 and her day will come sooner rather than later now.
 

All depends what post he offers her

I doubt she will accept anything less than Finance Secretary and Deputy FM

[Hertsscot]

9 hours ago, Haggis_trap said:

Despite this week being a car crash I am actually quite positive.
We have come out other side in better shape.

• The toxic and unpopular green coalition is ended
• Swiney in charge until next election.  Swiney is dull but arguably better than Yousaf?  Labour going to win back what ever happens.
• Kate Forbes keeping powder dry for 2026 at Holyrood.  SNP could / should still be largest party at Holyrood.

While I wanted Forbes as leader it is not a terrible state of affairs.  As mentioned above John Swiney likely the patsy who is going to take flak for the Sturgeon saga and a couple of dodgy elections to come.

Forbes is only 35 and her day will come sooner rather than later now.

I'm largely in agreement with this. None of the fundamental reasons for indy have changed. Swinney will get it in the neck from the Unionist press and media because that's what they do but we press on. Meanwhile all those gloating Conservatives will be very quiet today as voters in England give their verdict on how the Tories are doing.

[hampden_loon2878]

8 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

All depends what post he offers her

I doubt she will accept anything less than Finance Secretary and Deputy FM

From my understanding he offered her any position she wanted

[hampden_loon2878]

11 hours ago, Haggis_trap said:

Despite this week being a car crash I am actually quite positive.
We have come out other side in better shape.

• The toxic and unpopular green coalition is ended
• Swiney in charge until next election.  Swiney is dull but arguably better than Yousaf?  Labour going to win back what ever happens.
• Kate Forbes keeping powder dry for 2026 at Holyrood.  SNP could / should still be largest party at Holyrood.

While I wanted Forbes as leader it is not a terrible state of affairs.  As mentioned above John Swiney likely the patsy who is going to take flak for the Sturgeon saga and a couple of dodgy elections to come.

Forbes is only 35 and her day will come sooner rather than later now.
 

To an extent I agree with that, I just see it being pre-planned, swinney standing down after the GE, then Flynn swanning up 

[Ally Bongo]

55 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

To an extent I agree with that, I just see it being pre-planned, swinney standing down after the GE, then Flynn swanning up 

Flynn will only swan up if he loses his seat at the GE - which is unlikely

The SNP may not take a hammering at the GE on a Swinney/Forbes ticket - not enough to cause another leadership election

It's all up in the air

[PapofGlencoe]

19 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

All relates to the early 2000s when Swinney was in charge

Former SNP MP Campbell Martin wrote a book about it

Basically a gradualist/devolutionist and the opposite of the left of centre that he mentioned today 

I'll have a look. 

if SNP figures didn't want independence in 2000 they would have stuck the knife in at a more opportune moment i.e during the big vote?  I saw with my own eyes how the SNP leaders (like Swinney) conducted themselves, they all wanted independence from what i could see.   

 

 

 

[King Of Paisley]

37 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Flynn will only swan up if he loses his seat at the GE - which is unlikely

The SNP may not take a hammering at the GE on a Swinney/Forbes ticket - not enough to cause another leadership election

It's all up in the air

It'll be interesting to see the next couple of polls post Swinney being elected what with the BHA being binned and Forbes being more in the front line. 

I'm not a great Swinney fan and I'm still to be convinced he can do the job but has 20 more years Government experience under his belt than when he last FM. If its doable, I'd give Forbes both the DFM and Finance Secretary gigs. I still think the SNP will lose seats but I suspect the predicted hammering at the GE might not be a foregone conclusion

Lastly, I had to laugh at the Daily Heil's screeching about a Swinney carve up. Funny not a cheep was heard about two unelected PMs were foisted upon us, one of which was outlasted by a lettuce

 

[Hertsscot]

3 minutes ago, King Of Paisley said:

It'll be interesting to see the next couple of polls post Swinney being elected what with the BHA being binned and Forbes being more in the front line. 

I'm not a great Swinney fan and I'm still to be convinced he can do the job but has 20 more years Government experience under his belt than when he last FM. If its doable, I'd give Forbes both the DFM and Finance Secretary gigs. I still think the SNP will lose seats but I suspect the predicted hammering at the GE might not be a foregone conclusion

Lastly, I had to laugh at the Daily Heil's screeching about a Swinney carve up. Funny not a cheep was heard about two unelected PMs were foisted upon us, one of which was outlasted by a lettuce

Same with the Daily Express, demanding an election because there was going to be a new unelected FM yet not a word when Truss or Sunak succeeded as PM. None of it surprising, just rank hypocrisy.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, King Of Paisley said:

 

Lastly, I had to laugh at the Daily Heil's screeching about a Swinney carve up. Funny not a cheep was heard about two unelected PMs were foisted upon us, one of which was outlasted by a lettuce

 

🤣 🤣 🤣

[Dave78]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

Same with the Daily Express, demanding an election because there was going to be a new unelected FM yet not a word when Truss or Sunak succeeded as PM. None of it surprising, just rank hypocrisy.

You get the same hypocrisy from the Labour party. They want an election when the SNP change their first minister, yet are completely silent when they do it (i.e. in Wales a few weeks ago).

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

Flynn will only swan up if he loses his seat at the GE - which is unlikely

The SNP may not take a hammering at the GE on a Swinney/Forbes ticket - not enough to cause another leadership election

It's all up in the air

He could stand as MSP even if he keeps his seat at the general election. I know they changed the rules to stop Joanna Cherry doing it, but the rules can just as easily be changed back again, if they want to. 

[Ally Bongo]

8 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I'll have a look. 

if SNP figures didn't want independence in 2000 they would have stuck the knife in at a more opportune moment i.e during the big vote?  I saw with my own eyes how the SNP leaders (like Swinney) conducted themselves, they all wanted independence from what i could see.   

 

 

 

 

 

[Orraloon]

8 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

 

 

Anybody who had been paying attention over the decades would have heard Alex Salmond saying very similar things. They have both always been on the gradualist side of the party. 

[Toepoke]

59 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

 

 

Citing a comment from 22 years ago as evidence!

What percentage of SNP backers were still voting for Labour then?