pay per view

[Texas Pete]

3 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

 

So am I right in saying the BBC/(I)STV/Channel4 are to blame here?  They should be investing in this from my point of view.

If they can do it for England and Wales, see no reason why they shouldn't be for us.

Seemed to be a perception it's an invalid moan this.  But it seems clear cut to me.  They should be paying for these games.  If they're willing to pay for some nations, they should pay for all of them.  

Why should they? 

TV companies have budgets like any other business And they can decide what to do with them (within reason in the case of the BBC) how they please.

Channel 4 has paid a small fortune for England games which they will recoup (and presumably make a profit) by charging companies a premium rate for advertising during the the games due to the high viewing figures. I haven’t looked into it but I can almost guarantee that Channel 4’s highest viewing figures come from their coverage of England games. Sadly this would not be the case for Scotland, Wales or NI games. 

BBC Scotland/Alba could attempt to negotiate with Viaplay to allow them to broadcast the games in Gaelic (they may already have done this and failed for all we know) but the fact is there are only around 50,000 Gaelic speakers in Scotland compared with half a million Welsh speakers in Wales. S4C’s budget is considerably higher than BBC Alba’s budget.

The only way we are going to see Scotland games on free to air television regularly is if the government add home nations qualifiers to the TV ‘Crown Jewels’ which I can’t see happening any time soon. 

If you’re looking for someone to blame then the UK government and/or UEFA would be a good place to start although you can hardly blame UEFA for going with the highest bidder. UEFA won’t care if our games are free to air or not as all they care about is getting the highest amount of money possible. 

[PapofGlencoe]

2 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Why should they? 

TV companies have budgets like any other business And they can decide what to do with them (within reason in the case of the BBC) how they please.

Channel 4 has paid a small fortune for England games which they will recoup (and presumably make a profit) by charging companies a premium rate for advertising during the the games due to the high viewing figures. I haven’t looked into it but I can almost guarantee that Channel 4’s highest viewing figures come from their coverage of England games. Sadly this would not be the case for Scotland, Wales or NI games. 

BBC Scotland/Alba could attempt to negotiate with Viaplay to allow them to broadcast the games in Gaelic (they may already have done this and failed for all we know) but the fact is there are only around 50,000 Gaelic speakers in Scotland compared with half a million Welsh speakers in Wales. S4C’s budget is considerably higher than BBC Alba’s budget.

The only way we are going to see Scotland games on free to air television regularly is if the government add home nations qualifiers to the TV ‘Crown Jewels’ which I can’t see happening any time soon. 

If you’re looking for someone to blame then the UK government and/or UEFA would be a good place to start although you can hardly blame UEFA for going with the highest bidder. UEFA won’t care if our games are free to air or not as all they care about is getting the highest amount of money possible. 

Because some of these Channels are publicly funded and all the nations should be treated equally?  It's not a private profit making exercise.

That's the whole point of having a public sector and in this case public sector broadcasting.  

[Texas Pete]

14 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Because some of these Channels are publicly funded and all the nations should be treated equally?  It's not a private profit making exercise.

That's the whole point of having a public sector and in this case public sector broadcasting.  

That’s not how things work though is it? Even if C4 or the BBC wanted to fork out for all of the home nations games they can’t force UEFA to sell the rights to them. 

C4 is publicly owned but it is not publicly funded. They are not going to spend a lot of money to please Scotland, Wales and NI fans if it means making a loss. 

The BBC is publicly funded but budgets have been slashed and there’s no way BBC Scotland could afford to outbid Viaplay.

In an ideal world out games would be on free to air telly but unfortunately we don’t live in an ideal world. In case you hadn’t noticed, Scotland (as well as Wales and NI) normally gets the shitty end of the stick compared to England.  

 

[Bzzzz]

34 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Why should they? 

TV companies have budgets like any other business And they can decide what to do with them (within reason in the case of the BBC) how they please.

Channel 4 has paid a small fortune for England games which they will recoup (and presumably make a profit) by charging companies a premium rate for advertising during the the games due to the high viewing figures. I haven’t looked into it but I can almost guarantee that Channel 4’s highest viewing figures come from their coverage of England games. Sadly this would not be the case for Scotland, Wales or NI games. 

BBC Scotland/Alba could attempt to negotiate with Viaplay to allow them to broadcast the games in Gaelic (they may already have done this and failed for all we know) but the fact is there are only around 50,000 Gaelic speakers in Scotland compared with half a million Welsh speakers in Wales. S4C’s budget is considerably higher than BBC Alba’s budget.

The only way we are going to see Scotland games on free to air television regularly is if the government add home nations qualifiers to the TV ‘Crown Jewels’ which I can’t see happening any time soon. 

If you’re looking for someone to blame then the UK government and/or UEFA would be a good place to start although you can hardly blame UEFA for going with the highest bidder. UEFA won’t care if our games are free to air or not as all they care about is getting the highest amount of money possible. 

The issue here is the lack of parity. C4 paid a small fortune for England's games but in reality they SHOULD be being made to bid for all 4 nations should they not? C4 are not an English channel and we are apparently in some kind of a laughably termed "union"... in comparison to the more attractive product, Scotland Wales and N Ire games should be more than affordable add ons. This is why they need to be in OFCOM's "Crown Jewels", there's clearly enough money for England games, I don't believe for a second that cannot stretch to cover the other 3 nations. 
Get them all protected and let's be treated equally eh?

[Marky]

18 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Scottish club footbal is dead on it's feet. Wall to wall coverage of the EPL has made the top English players house hold names. I would bet if you asked 100 people in Scotland to name as many international players in the EPL as they could in 60 seconds more English players would be named than Scottish ones.

To keep the quiz show analogy going you would be on for a pointless answer for everyone bar McTominay and McGinn.

People want to watch football, patriotism has little to do with it anymore.

Having said that the pubs are busy when the Rugby is on.

 

I would respectfully contend that the above is a steaming pile of shite. 👍

[Texas Pete]

5 minutes ago, Bzzzz said:

The issue here is the lack of parity. C4 paid a small fortune for England's games but in reality they SHOULD be being made to bid for all 4 nations should they not? C4 are not an English channel and we are apparently in some kind of a laughably termed "union"... in comparison to the more attractive product, Scotland Wales and N Ire games should be more than affordable add ons. This is why they need to be in OFCOM's "Crown Jewels", there's clearly enough money for England games, I don't believe for a second that cannot stretch to cover the other 3 nations. 
Get them all protected and let's be treated equally eh?

Well aye as I mentioned in an earlier post the only way we will see Scotland games on council telly regularly is if home nations qualifiers are added to the Crown Jewels which I can’t see happening although we can always hope. 

Made to bid by who? Although C4 is publicly owned it is not a state broadcaster. Nobody can make them do what you are suggesting. Even if home nations games are added to the Crown Jewels C4 could probably still bid for England games alone if they wanted to. 

[wanderer]

24 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Because some of these Channels are publicly funded and all the nations should be treated equally?  It's not a private profit making exercise.

That's the whole point of having a public sector and in this case public sector broadcasting.  

ITV and C4 are not publicly funded though, and while S4C do get access to license fee money, this is down to their partnership with BBC for producing content for them (S4C do not own the elusive rights to Wales games, as they simply can not afford it... there was actually fears from Welsh fans that it would see a end to Wales games on that channel, but the Welsh FA stepped in and got an agreement between the two to carry on as before).

BBC Alba COULD potentially do the same, but this would come out of the BBC Alba budget, which comes FULLY from their budget, which is set by the BBC.... S4C have their own budget for operating and get additional funding through adverts.

Simple truth is, BBC can not afford any football.... ITV could afford to purchase the England rights, but STV could not afford to purchase the Scotland rights.... and C4 have spent big to get England rights, but can not exactly bid for Scotland rights (unlike ITV, Channel 4 does not have a Scotland Network, its Nationwide on the one service) as if there was a clash of Scotland and England games, they can not show both at the same time.

[wanderer]

24 minutes ago, Bzzzz said:

The issue here is the lack of parity. C4 paid a small fortune for England's games but in reality they SHOULD be being made to bid for all 4 nations should they not? C4 are not an English channel and we are apparently in some kind of a laughably termed "union"... in comparison to the more attractive product, Scotland Wales and N Ire games should be more than affordable add ons. This is why they need to be in OFCOM's "Crown Jewels", there's clearly enough money for England games, I don't believe for a second that cannot stretch to cover the other 3 nations. 
Get them all protected and let's be treated equally eh?

None of them are protected though.... that is the issue. 

There is clearly enough money for England games, but that is it.... if it was the case, you would probably find C4 would keep England games, and pass on Welsh, NI and Scotland games, and you would find BBC Scotland and STV would be bidding against each other for the Scotland games (out of force, and with Sky and ViaPlay no longer a option, it would mean the winner effectively paying pennies to get the rights, compared to what Sky and ViaPlay would think they are worth).

Had Glasgow been successful in its bid to be Channel 4's new base, we may have seen them bidding for Scotland games, but never happened.

[Texas Pete]

7 minutes ago, wanderer said:

None of them are protected though.... that is the issue. 

There is clearly enough money for England games, but that is it.... if it was the case, you would probably find C4 would keep England games, and pass on Welsh, NI and Scotland games, and you would find BBC Scotland and STV would be bidding against each other for the Scotland games (out of force, and with Sky and ViaPlay no longer a option, it would mean the winner effectively paying pennies to get the rights, compared to what Sky and ViaPlay would think they are worth).

Had Glasgow been successful in its bid to be Channel 4's new base, we may have seen them bidding for Scotland games, but never happened.

The sad fact is Channel 4 don’t want to show Scotland games. They want the huge viewing figures England games generate and that’s it. 

We would all love our games (away games at least) to be on free to air TV but it’s not a divine right that they should be. I’d also love all golf, boxing and darts tournaments to be free but sadly they are not. 

[wanderer]

7 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

The sad fact is Channel 4 don’t want to show Scotland games. They want the huge viewing figures England games generate and that’s it. 

We would all love our games (away games at least) to be on free to air TV but it’s not a divine right that they should be. I’d also love all golf, boxing and darts tournaments to be free but sadly they are not. 

Agree, and why should they?.....

I think some people want their to be some kind of conspiracy why England games are on free-to-air, while rest of us are not....

Simple fact is it comes down to money.... when ITV had the England rights, STV got a "black out" option, which meant they could stick a Bond or Bourne film or a 1000'th repeat of a Midsomer Murders episode, but this would come at the expense of any advertisement revenue they would get, when sticking on a football match that they had free access too would see a higher audience tune in.

Channel 4 is a nationwide network with no Scottish sub-network (hence there is no dedicated Channel 4 Scottish news time slot), so everyone gets the same showing at the same time.

Edited April 12, 2023 by wanderer

[PapofGlencoe]

3 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

The sad fact is Channel 4 don’t want to show Scotland games. They want the huge viewing figures England games generate and that’s it. 

We would all love our games (away games at least) to be on free to air TV but it’s not a divine right that they should be. I’d also love all golf, boxing and darts tournaments to be free but sadly they are not. 

I don't think it's a devine right or crown jewel.  merely that if a public owned/funded body is bidding for one nation, they should be bidding for all nations with a budget to boot as standard practice.  It's not a private sector decision and profit doesn't come into it.  The fact appears to be that the BBC are willing to pay for England matches and not Scotland ones.  If it was a private institution then you're point stands.  It isn't though.  It has a wider duty.

The network BBC should be bidding for all UK nations.  It shouldn't be left to BBC Scotland to bid for Scotland games while BBC UK bids only for England.  That's not what the network BBC is for.  It should be for all.

[Texas Pete]

53 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I don't think it's a devine right or crown jewel.  merely that if a public owned/funded body is bidding for one nation, they should be bidding for all nations with a budget to boot as standard practice.  It's not a private sector decision and profit doesn't come into it.  The fact appears to be that the BBC are willing to pay for England matches and not Scotland ones.  If it was a private institution then you're point stands.  It isn't though.  It has a wider duty.

The network BBC should be bidding for all UK nations.  It shouldn't be left to BBC Scotland to bid for Scotland games while BBC UK bids only for England.  That's not what the network BBC is for.  It should be for all.

The BBC doesn’t show England games. It hasn’t done for a long, long time. 

[wanderer]

14 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I don't think it's a devine right or crown jewel.  merely that if a public owned/funded body is bidding for one nation, they should be bidding for all nations with a budget to boot as standard practice.  It's not a private sector decision and profit doesn't come into it.  The fact appears to be that the BBC are willing to pay for England matches and not Scotland ones.  If it was a private institution then you're point stands.  It isn't though.  It has a wider duty.

The network BBC should be bidding for all UK nations.  It shouldn't be left to BBC Scotland to bid for Scotland games while BBC UK bids only for England.  That's not what the network BBC is for.  It should be for all.

England games have not been on BBC since around 2010-ish.... and that was not long after BBC Scotland had lost the rights to Scotland games.

[wanderer]

Interesting story my local MSP has just posted that the Scottish Government are to hold roundtable talks with the SFA, Viaplay, BBC Scotland and BBC Alba, STV, Channel 4 and ViaPlay today about getting Scotland games on free-to-air tv.

[Caledonian Craig]

11 minutes ago, wanderer said:

Interesting story my local MSP has just posted that the Scottish Government are to hold roundtable talks with the SFA, Viaplay, BBC Scotland and BBC Alba, STV, Channel 4 and ViaPlay today about getting Scotland games on free-to-air tv.

I can just see all those TV execs now locked in talks with their think tanks to work out excuses as to why it can't be done.

[wanderer]

Just now, Caledonian Craig said:

I can just see all those TV execs now locked in talks with their think tanks to work out excuses as to why it can't be done.

We are due to get two of our Euro Qualifiers this year any way (and the England friendly will be free regardless.....)... no doubt this will be neglected to mention and the station that gets to show those two games (my money is on the Gerogia and Norway home games) will put a spin on it (when it was already agreed beforehand)

[Caledonian Craig]

29 minutes ago, wanderer said:

We are due to get two of our Euro Qualifiers this year any way (and the England friendly will be free regardless.....)... no doubt this will be neglected to mention and the station that gets to show those two games (my money is on the Gerogia and Norway home games) will put a spin on it (when it was already agreed beforehand)

Very true.

[wanderer]

5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Very true.

Yeah, just look when STV made a big deal that they would be showing the England game at Hampden a few years ago.... they put a big spin on it that they had worked hard to get that game on free-to-air, and should be patted on the back for it..... even though they were always getting it because of Englands deal with ITV at the time.

[rOsCo2]

Maybe slightly controversial, but £15 for a month of Via Play which gets two Scotland games (and plenty f others if it floats your boat) seems reasonable to me. Way less than a ticket for the game. It wasn't that long ago that you had to sign up for a year of Sky coverage even if you only wanted a few games, so this Pay per View model works for me.

I went to both games, but still paid so the kids could watch. Appreciate that not everyone has access to "internet TV" so the current model isn't perfect, but for me personally I am not complaining.

[Judith]

I think folks need to seperate whether the Viaplay deal is a good one from the over riding point of whether Scotland games should be free for all to watch.

Clearly Viaplay payed the most money, so its the best deal for Uefa and the SFA. Also a one off payment of £15 to see 2 games in a month isnt exhorbitant.

But this is our national team and if we want the whole country to get behind it we should be doing all we can to make sure that the whole country can see the game.

Our big problem is Broadcasting is reserved to Westminster, and regardless of who is in power down there, they dont have any interest in encouraging support for the national team and/or seeking ways that would facilitate a deal with a terrestrial channel.

Be interesting to see what comes out of these talks though, at least have the major players around the table is a step forward.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Judith

[Texas Pete]

5 hours ago, wanderer said:

Interesting story my local MSP has just posted that the Scottish Government are to hold roundtable talks with the SFA, Viaplay, BBC Scotland and BBC Alba, STV, Channel 4 and ViaPlay today about getting Scotland games on free-to-air tv.

Is Viaplay sending 2 delegations? 😏

If BBC Alba is involved I can see a similar deal to the Welsh one happening with them screening our games with commentary in Gaelic. 

Muting the telly and putting the tranny on could be the way forward. Unless you speak Gaelic of course. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Texas Pete

[Texas Pete]

15 hours ago, wanderer said:

Interesting story my local MSP has just posted that the Scottish Government are to hold roundtable talks with the SFA, Viaplay, BBC Scotland and BBC Alba, STV, Channel 4 and ViaPlay today about getting Scotland games on free-to-air tv.

Not much of an update but sounds promising. 
 

'Encouraging' talks held on Scotland TV rights https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65265084

[mccaughey85]

13 hours ago, rOsCo2 said:

Maybe slightly controversial, but £15 for a month of Via Play which gets two Scotland games (and plenty f others if it floats your boat) seems reasonable to me. Way less than a ticket for the game. It wasn't that long ago that you had to sign up for a year of Sky coverage even if you only wanted a few games, so this Pay per View model works for me.

I went to both games, but still paid so the kids could watch. Appreciate that not everyone has access to "internet TV" so the current model isn't perfect, but for me personally I am not complaining.

Do you need to sign up for several months?

15 pounds a month is a rip off for getting to occasionally watch scotland games. I would consider 5/6 pound a month to be reasonable and even then i would expect there to be some other good content that would interest me. 

It should be on normal telly or if it is on viaplay or sky it should be available to buy on pay per view at a reasonable price like 4 or 5 quid.

[Caledonian Craig]

6 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Not much of an update but sounds promising. 
 

'Encouraging' talks held on Scotland TV rights https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65265084

Hmm no agreement reached does not sound promising to me. But perhaps I am expecting too much on.a first meeting however you'd think BBC, STV or such-like should be chping at the bit to make offers to get live Scotland games on. It would be something of a coup.

[Bzzzz]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Hmm no agreement reached does not sound promising to me. But perhaps I am expecting too much on.a first meeting however you'd think BBC, STV or such-like should be chping at the bit to make offers to get live Scotland games on. It would be something of a coup.

The meeting was all about finding out where everyone's lines in the sand lie. A really good positive forward step. Well done to Mr Newlands for taking the bull by the horns and getting all the relevant parties round the table.