SNP leadership election

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, Freeedom said:

I'm not partisan, all of the candidates are shite. Ash Regan is simply not very bright, at least politically. I won't endorse any of them.

 

Well some of us have got votes to cast. We might want better candidates but they aren't on any ballot paper we're going to see. I value some of the discussion here so keep it up!

[Ally Bongo]

9 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Well some of us have got votes to cast. We might want better candidates but they aren't on any ballot paper we're going to see. I value some of the discussion here so keep it up!

Everybody will have their own reasons for voting for whoever -  and not everyone is going to be happy at the outcome

The demographic of those, and the actions they take, at that outcome are key,  because it has become that partisan that a great many that are voting will not be looking at the big picture or sticking by the SNP

The big picture for me is where the SNP and Independence are at the moment and what happens next 

Which group is more likely to leave the SNP if Yousaf, Forbes or Regan win 

I'm going to concentrate on Forbes and Yousaf as i think Regan is an also ran at this stage

It's clear the LGBTI+ are all in on Yousaf and will be up in arms if Forbes wins

That being said the GRR is unpopular with a great deal of members too and Yousaf is going to carry on with it

Who is going to be more attractive to undecided voters and soft Unionists -and who will put them off

Who is clever enough, has the personality and policies, to take on a hostile media & opposition parties 24/7

Who has a rational plan for Independence

[aaid]

11 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Everybody will have their own reasons for voting for whoever -  and not everyone is going to be happy at the outcome

The demographic of those, and the actions they take, at that outcome are key,  because it has become that partisan that a great many that are voting will not be looking at the big picture or sticking by the SNP

The big picture for me is where the SNP and Independence are at the moment and what happens next 

Which group is more likely to leave the SNP if Yousaf, Forbes or Regan win 

I'm going to concentrate on Forbes and Yousaf as i think Regan is an also ran at this stage

It's clear the LGBTI+ are all in on Yousaf and will be up in arms if Forbes wins

That being said the GRR is unpopular with a great deal of members too and Yousaf is going to carry on with it

Who is going to be more attractive to undecided voters and soft Unionists -and who will put them off

Who is clever enough, has the personality and policies, to take on a hostile media & opposition parties 24/7

Who has a rational plan for Independence

None of them?

[Ally Bongo]

22 minutes ago, aaid said:

None of them?

Possibly - that's why it's a gamble

[Freeedom]

2 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Well some of us have got votes to cast. We might want better candidates but they aren't on any ballot paper we're going to see. I value some of the discussion here so keep it up!

I understand, cast your vote however you want. Despite what I've said about Kate Forbes I think she'll win and the SNP will become a centre right party. 

[Ally Bongo]

20 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

I understand, cast your vote however you want. Despite what I've said about Kate Forbes I think she'll win and the SNP will become a centre right party. 

Absolute hyperbolic pish

As i asked Aaid something similar earlier - how the fuck is that remotely possible without a huge swathe of new "centre right"  SNP MSPs at Holyrood

Please explain for us dummies

Edited February 27, 2023 by Ally Bongo

[Freeedom]

23 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Absolute hyperbolic pish

As i asked Aaid something similar earlier - how the fuck is that remotely possible without a huge swathe of new "centre right"  SNP MSPs at Holyrood

Please explain for us dummies

Hahaha

Her politics are centre right, if the rest of the party follow her lead that's where the SNP will go. 

I'll be curious to see how far aaid will go to defend the SNP if Kate wins

 

 

 

[stocky]

1 hour ago, Freeedom said:

I understand, cast your vote however you want. Despite what I've said about Kate Forbes I think she'll win and the SNP will become a centre right party. 

That could happen and all the Left leaning voters/msps could go green.

We could then have left and right independence parties

Would take at least 1 electoral cycle.

[Caledonian Craig]

It is depressing.

The SNP are supposed to be the main driving force of the independence movement and yet the two chief candidates Youssuf and Forbes have been deathly quiet on their plans on independence. I became a member for their pursuit of independence but that pursuit is nowhere to be seen from them when it should be front and centre of their interviews and canvassing.

[Malcolm]

7 hours ago, stocky said:

That could happen and all the Left leaning voters/msps could go green.

We could then have left and right independence parties

Would take at least 1 electoral cycle.

that would be my ideal.  The snp centre right and the greens to gtf on the loony left where they belong.

[ParisInAKilt]

Not sure what the point of that would be when they are able to win elections as it is. 

The issue is being unable or unwilling to come up with a plan to achieve independence beyond asking for a referendum. 

[Freeedom]

53 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Not sure what the point of that would be when they are able to win elections as it is. 

The issue is being unable or unwilling to come up with a plan to achieve independence beyond asking for a referendum. 

The SNP have been leading the electorate round in circles on independence for the last nine years. Nicola took us all in to a dead end then just walked away. I'm surprised more people aren't incredibly pissed off by that.

There is no plan, and there never has been. They've been making it up as they go along dangling the carrot and shaming people who don't vote for the party as not real independence supporters.

[hampden_loon2878]

9 hours ago, Freeedom said:

Hahaha

Her politics are centre right, if the rest of the party follow her lead that's where the SNP will go. 

I'll be curious to see how far aaid will go to defend the SNP if Kate wins

 

 

 

i would need to disagree,, she will be bang in the middle, exactly where the party needs to be,, hopefully along the lines of where salmond stood

[hampden_loon2878]

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It is depressing.

The SNP are supposed to be the main driving force of the independence movement and yet the two chief candidates Youssuf and Forbes have been deathly quiet on their plans on independence. I became a member for their pursuit of independence but that pursuit is nowhere to be seen from them when it should be front and centre of their interviews and canvassing.

there's a month to go. plenty time for a vision for scotland,, that is where it will be won. A vision of competent governance that can maximise the potential economically and socially for scotland 

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

that would be my ideal.  The snp centre right and the greens to gtf on the loony left where they belong.

the snp has to be a centrist party, accommodating to all 

[Freeedom]

3 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

i would need to disagree,, she will be bang in the middle, exactly where the party needs to be,, hopefully along the lines of where salmond stood

Just because she is where you are politically doesn't mean she is centrist. Nobody who oppose same sex marriage can be classified as centrist in 2023

[Orraloon]

3 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

there's a month to go. plenty time for a vision for scotland,, that is where it will be won. A vision of competent governance that can maximise the potential economically and socially for scotland 

More like just over two weeks. 

[aaid]

15 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

How many Tories do you know that worked for Oxfam focusing on poverty and inequality ?

Since we’re talking about Kate Forbes’ CV.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/kate-forbes-snp-christian-action-research-education-care-anti-abortion-dark-money/

[Orraloon]

I can't be bothered with all this right wing left wing pish. It's just lazy shorthand. We should judge each policy, and each issue on it's merits. 

[ParisInAKilt]

39 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

The SNP have been leading the electorate round in circles on independence for the last nine years. Nicola took us all in to a dead end then just walked away. I'm surprised more people aren't incredibly pissed off by that.

There is no plan, and there never has been. They've been making it up as they go along dangling the carrot and shaming people who don't vote for the party as not real independence supporters.

It does feel that way. 

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, Freeedom said:

The SNP have been leading the electorate round in circles on independence for the last nine years. Nicola took us all in to a dead end then just walked away. I'm surprised more people aren't incredibly pissed off by that.

There is no plan, and there never has been. They've been making it up as they go along dangling the carrot and shaming people who don't vote for the party as not real independence supporters.

All 48-52% of them ?

And therein lies the crux - there are too many people in Scotland vehemently opposed to Independence or couldnt give a fuck 

After Brexit the SNP should have been more populist, verging on Trumpian, to counter the English Media and Opposition Unionist parties

Taking flak from the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Telegraph, Times, Sun, Record et al should have been batted away with some honesty and attack

However Sturgeon and the SNP have always been on the defensive, week in and week out, to the extent that when they did try and counter it they were portrayed as being grievance mongers and not respecting the 2014 vote

So it's not so much as leading everyone round in circles - they have been leading themselves around

And if you want to guage it - go and look at some of the Yes events before 2014 and the talks by the likes of Bissett

That combatant attitude should have been resurrected after Brexit

Too weak

[Alibi]

Yousaf is appalling.  An arrogant prick.  Can't see him appealing to voters.   Forbes is a decent young woman who seems to have had the misfortune to have been brought up in a hardline religious environment, but she seems to be able to accept that not everyone shares her beliefs. however in my opinion she is a bit young to lead the indy movement at this stage.  Ash Regan is quite outspoken, but that's what we need right now - someone who won't be scared to tell WM to fuck off.  Sturgeon was too comfy in a London environment watching royal events and the like.  A decent colonial administrator but as far as indy is concerned, timid and subservient.  We need someone who actually prioritises indy.  not someone who kicks it into the future and says that we'll get indy done once everything is great - until we get indy, things will never be great.

If Yousaf gets in, indy will not be a priority and the SNP will lose a lot of votes, due to the general dislike of him and also due to the resultant apathy that will ensue.  Ask yourself why the MSM are promoting him.

How the fuck did we get here?  How did we throw away the opportunity that Brexit provided to really go for it?  I thought the people of Scotland would not allow themselves to be dragged out of Europe?  That fat mess Blackford kept saying that.  As much use as a barbed wire condom.  I despair.

[Ally Bongo]

10 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Y

 

How the fuck did we get here?  How did we throw away the opportunity that Brexit provided to really go for it?  I thought the people of Scotland would not allow themselves to be dragged out of Europe?  That fat mess Blackford kept saying that.  As much use as a barbed wire condom.  I despair.

The 2017 General Election where the SNP (wrongly in hindsight) ran with a "stop Brexit" campaign and lost 21 seats

That is when imo the SNP shat it, gave up and concentrated on remaining in power than trying to get Independence 

[hampden_loon2878]

5 hours ago, Freeedom said:

Just because she is where you are politically doesn't mean she is centrist. Nobody who oppose same sex marriage can be classified as centrist in 2023

we wont know until she stands in office and implements some policies, but as far as i can see the policies she has supported, she most certainly would sit pretty much in the middle. 

[hampden_loon2878]

6 hours ago, aaid said:

Since we’re talking about Kate Forbes’ CV.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/kate-forbes-snp-christian-action-research-education-care-anti-abortion-dark-money/

i actually thought you were anne Blackford for a while, now it i am starting to think you are peter murrell.. why such an orchestrated campaign to smear from a so called independence supporting paper.. its actually in the relms of project fear,, it really is bizarre..

Edited February 28, 2023 by hampden_loon2878