The Referree / Var thread..

[LoganRoy]

8 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

I heard it on the radio, saw the comments on here and was expecting to see an absolute shocker but I can see why the penalty was given.

The Hibs players has made an attempt for the ball, the Hearts guy moves the ball and then the Hibs guy connects with the Hearts player. Its probably a foul outside the box and therefore can see why its a penalty.

The problem is most people have grown up at a time when penaltys had to be more than just fouled. They had to be over and above because they are effrctively a goal. With VAR and the new way of reffing the game, those days are gone.

Similar to the Hibs penalty conceeded against Celtic a few weeks back where nobody was even claiming for a penalty.

It isn't a penalty.  We'll obviously take it, but this is beyond embarrassing. 

https://twitter.com/Parry187507/status/1762939454208037229?t=vbWB0QDnlg-6l41vaEnjAg&s=19

[vanderark14]

35 minutes ago, LoganRoy said:

It isn't a penalty.  We'll obviously take it, but this is beyond embarrassing. 

https://twitter.com/Parry187507/status/1762939454208037229?t=vbWB0QDnlg-6l41vaEnjAg&s=19

Clancy should be look at the hearts players reaction and know that is not a penalty. 

[Kirk]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

I never said it was a penalty. I said I can understand why it was given. Especially the way the game is being officiated these days.

What part of what I said was inaccurate? Did the Hibs player go for the ball? Yes, did he get the ball? No, Did the Hearts player move the ball out of the way. Yes. Did the Hibs player then connect with the Hearts players leg / foot? Yes.

The only part thats poor is the contact isnt enough to make the Hearts player go down but that could be said of alot of penalties these days.

If you can even see anything close to why it was given then you're off your heid and football is done. There is absolutely nothing there to even be close to being a penalty. He either falls over or dives, anywhere else in the pitch it isn't even given a second look 

[DesiScotsman]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

Clancy should be look at the hearts players reaction and know that is not a penalty. 

Correct, he bottled it to reverse his decision to the correct one. Fish doesn't exactly cover himself in glory as it doesn't look like he even has control of the ball before the challenge but that Vargas fella falls down as if he had been shot by a sniper. Definitelty not a penalty imo and as poor a decision like that McTominay disallowed goal in Sevilla against Spain one.

Tell you what I have been very impressed with some of these Hibs signings since that Bill Foley investment was ratified by the SFA. Marcondes, Moriah-Welsh & Maolida have all looked really good and a step above to the type of player they were signing before. If that's the type of player Hibs are going to be getting from now on following this investment from Foley, then certainly a lot to be excited for.

Edited February 29 by DesiScotsman

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, Kirk said:

If you can even see anything close to why it was given then you're off your heid and football is done. There is absolutely nothing there to even be close to being a penalty. He either falls over or dives, anywhere else in the pitch it isn't even given a second look 

Football is done, you are right about that. I wouldnt give as a pen but then I wouldnt be giving most pens awarded it last few years.

Im just saying there is contact by the hibs player. That appears to be enough these days.

[LoganRoy]

Ross County and Killie both getting away with handballs.  These are basics!

It's almost like the early season debacle where everything was given as a penalty it seems has been completely reversed. 

13 decisions the SFA got wrong in Q2, that numbers about to be obliterated I think.  

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, LoganRoy said:

It isn't a penalty.  We'll obviously take it, but this is beyond embarrassing. 

https://twitter.com/Parry187507/status/1762939454208037229?t=vbWB0QDnlg-6l41vaEnjAg&s=19

Correct, there is no way that should be a penalty. Book the Hearts player for seriously bad acting. 

[Kirk]

10 hours ago, LoganRoy said:

Ross County and Killie both getting away with handballs.  These are basics!

It's almost like the early season debacle where everything was given as a penalty it seems has been completely reversed. 

13 decisions the SFA got wrong in Q2, that numbers about to be obliterated I think.  

Goldson gets away with 2 a game usually so it'll even put as they say

[LoganRoy]

47 minutes ago, Kirk said:

Goldson gets away with 2 a game usually so it'll even put as they say

I didn't see the Goldson 2 in the highlights. Were they as clear as the Mayo and Leak ones?  St Mirren released a statement saying the SFA admitted error.  

[Fairbairn]

There seems to be a lot of admitting errors recently and not much being done about stopping them happening.

[RDFH64]

4 hours ago, Fairbairn said:

There seems to be a lot of admitting errors recently and not much being done about stopping them happening.

The system needs to be far more transparent with open mics so we can hear the conversations between the on field ref and the VAR officials hiding away in their ivory tower dark room. Until that happens accusations of favouritism will continue, VAR has given weak refs the chance to hide when it comes to making controversial decisions knowing the unseen VAR officials will do his job for him. I can’t see this happening which would be a shame. The recent Scotland v France rugby match non try debacle after the whole World could hear the ref and rugby’s version of VAR both agreeing the ball had been grounded for a try only to reverse their decision will have put the shitters up the SFA/SPFL regarding open mics 🤔

[N4Footsoldier]

VAR or no VAR the handball rules really need to be tidied up again.

They tried to clarify it a few seasons ago now by capturing an exhaustive list of interpretations and how each scenario (e.g player on the ground with his arm in x position, bell deflects off players body on to arm etc) should be given, but of course there's no way in writing to capture all eventualities as to how and when a ball may strike a player's arm.

I feel like maybe 5 or so years ago the rules were much clearer - if your arm is in an unnatural position or hand to ball occurs, then generally the handball is given. The problem is that footballers are always crying victim over the rules so all of this feedback on rules which to me seemed much simpler than what we have now have led to this.

Seeing various interviews from players and managers, who are usually consulted on all the latest interpretations yearly, have no idea what is and isn't a handball these days. 

[Kirk]

On 2/29/2024 at 10:22 PM, LoganRoy said:

I didn't see the Goldson 2 in the highlights. Were they as clear as the Mayo and Leak ones?  St Mirren released a statement saying the SFA admitted error.  

Haha was more a joke about the amount he has got away with over the season, rather tham this particular game

[N4Footsoldier]

It's all happening at Tynecastle this week...

[Diamond Scot]

On 3/1/2024 at 4:01 PM, N4Footsoldier said:

VAR or no VAR the handball rules really need to be tidied up again.

They tried to clarify it a few seasons ago now by capturing an exhaustive list of interpretations and how each scenario (e.g player on the ground with his arm in x position, bell deflects off players body on to arm etc) should be given, but of course there's no way in writing to capture all eventualities as to how and when a ball may strike a player's arm.

I feel like maybe 5 or so years ago the rules were much clearer - if your arm is in an unnatural position or hand to ball occurs, then generally the handball is given. The problem is that footballers are always crying victim over the rules so all of this feedback on rules which to me seemed much simpler than what we have now have led to this.

Seeing various interviews from players and managers, who are usually consulted on all the latest interpretations yearly, have no idea what is and isn't a handball these days. 

Like most things they have complicated something for no need.

Used to be intent, which then had to change because defenders like John Terry were making themselves bigger before the ball was struck.

This should have just been changed to read that if a player deliberately puts his hand / arm in an unatural position where it was likely to hit the arm / hand in order to gain an advantage then its a penalty. Ie doing a star jump.

The ball hitting an arm as the player runs or jumps etc is a farce. 99% of handball pens are obvious.

[N4Footsoldier]

14 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Like most things they have complicated something for no need.

Used to be intent, which then had to change because defenders like John Terry were making themselves bigger before the ball was struck.

This should have just been changed to read that if a player deliberately puts his hand / arm in an unatural position where it was likely to hit the arm / hand in order to gain an advantage then its a penalty. Ie doing a star jump.

The ball hitting an arm as the player runs or jumps etc is a farce. 99% of handball pens are obvious.

I think this is where the feedback loop gets distorted because players like you mention became very savvy at gaming the rules so as to gain an advantage without actually committing an offence, which means they need to change. I feel like so many of these situational loopholes became so arguable either way that they tried to do a catchall for everything, but now it just seems like the whole of football is at war with the handball rule.

 

[Diamond Scot]

23 minutes ago, N4Footsoldier said:

I think this is where the feedback loop gets distorted because players like you mention became very savvy at gaming the rules so as to gain an advantage without actually committing an offence, which means they need to change. I feel like so many of these situational loopholes became so arguable either way that they tried to do a catchall for everything, but now it just seems like the whole of football is at war with the handball rule.

 

Thats the refs / VAR job though. To look at the situation and make a call on whether the player did something on purpose or not. 

Ie you cant jump without moving your hands but there is no reason for them to be above your head where the ball is coming down.

The Celtic game yesterday. The players back was to the ball and the reason his arm moved was because another Celtic player barged into him. 

This ultimate quest for perfection in decision making is ruining the game. Leave it to the refs. If they consistently make poor decisions then dont move them down the grades. 

[Toepoke]

36 minutes ago, N4Footsoldier said:

but now it just seems like the whole of football is at war with the handball rule.

I've been saying for a while (probably on this thread already) but for me the simple fix is to punish all handball offences with an indirect free kick, with the exception of when it's a clearly deliberate act (eg. Suarez v Ghana).

When a team are getting a penalty for the merest flick off a defender's arm, the sanction is far heavier than it should be. 

(Also under current VAR stipulations it would mean most handballs wouldn't be pulled up by the video refs).

 

 

Edited March 4 by Toepoke

[Big Ramy 1314]

4 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

I've been saying for a while (probably on this thread already) but for me the simple fix is to punish all handball offences with an indirect free kick, with the exception of when it's a clearly deliberate act (eg. Suarez v Ghana).

When a team are getting a penalty for the merest flick off a defender's arm, the sanction is far heavier than it should be.

 

Totally agree mate. The Hearts penalty was beyond a joke. Celtic player looking the other direction, 180 degrees, hearts player heads the ball into yir man's arm, and it's a penalty???? To be fair, the penalty we were awarded was also a joke. It's a 50/50 challenge.... 

[Big Ramy 1314]

Enough said !! Fuckin disgrace....

[kumnio]

2 hours ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Enough said !! Fuckin disgrace....

Enough said?

Unless John Beaton set it up, which he didn't, or John Beaton is funding it, which he isn't, its clearly a pisstake, and one thats designed to wind up Celtic fans with IQs of about 80.

[Fairbairn]

31 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Enough said?

Unless John Beaton set it up, which he didn't, or John Beaton is funding it, which he isn't, its clearly a pisstake, and one thats designed to wind up Celtic fans with IQs of about 80.

Job done! 

[Big Ramy 1314]

41 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Enough said?

Unless John Beaton set it up, which he didn't, or John Beaton is funding it, which he isn't, its clearly a pisstake, and one thats designed to wind up Celtic fans with IQs of about 80.

Incorrect fella... Just because I live in Canada does not interfere with my knowledge of the goings on of Scottish football. My family and friends in Glasgow are season ticket holders. I know what's going on probably more than you... If you watched my Scottish Cup Final videos, there is a reason my seat was right down at the track. I know folk, well connected folk, so I am in the know. Your man Beaton is well known to venture into a couple well known sevco pubs, he is a hun, through and through.. For this very reason, it is an absolute disgrace this man is allowed to participate in the refereeing or VAR discretion in any way shape or form... Only is Scotland.........

[Mitre]

22 minutes ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Incorrect fella... Just because I live in Canada does not interfere with my knowledge of the goings on of Scottish football. My family and friends in Glasgow are season ticket holders. I know what's going on probably more than you... If you watched my Scottish Cup Final videos, there is a reason my seat was right down at the track. I know folk, well connected folk, so I am in the know. Your man Beaton is well known to venture into a couple well known sevco pubs, he is a hun, through and through.. For this very reason, it is an absolute disgrace this man is allowed to participate in the refereeing or VAR discretion in any way shape or form... Only is Scotland.........

I still cannae work out if you're serious or taking the piss

[vanderark14]

12 minutes ago, Mitre said:

I still cannae work out if you're serious or taking the piss

Depends what time of day it is