Indyref 2 (2)

[Orraloon]

Just now, Grim Jim said:

I second that.   You seem to have your head screwed on.

You'll want to delete all your old harvesting posts though before the press dig those up.

 

Oh aye, I forgot about the skeletons in the cupboard. I wonder how long it would take Police Scotland to investigate that one?

[Broath Boy]

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Utter tosh.

A thumping for the SNP is a thumping for independence hopes and gives even less credibility to those of us who ache, crave and desire Scottish independence every day of our lives. 

If you actually believe what you are posting resign your membership as that sends a bigger message to the SNP otherwise you are no more than a snake in the grass. Do as your hero did and resign and become a fully fledged member of Alba.

I am happy with voting SNP as it prevents me being a supporter of this sham of a union. If you are happy voting for a unionist party and are not voting for a pro-independence party (at the very least) then you have no place on this thread.

I know the SNP has problems but you stick with it. The other option - knuckle under to your unionist masters.

Exactly 

[scotlad]

4 hours ago, StirlingEgg said:

I don’t understand the logic or reasoning behind "only if the SNP get a thumping" or "they need to be annihilated to have a clearout". It baffles me as much as "Christ died for our sins" though that's a very different discussion! There is no lesson that can be learned where some independence phoenix will be allowed to rise. The UK govt, British State and right wing press would ensure that independence and possibly even the Scottish parliament would be stamped down or very much diminished.

I ended up on some 2014 thread on here last night where there was a post referendum quote from Alan Little about all the doom threatened by the No side. It's inarguably turned out worse that those threats by remaining in the Union. We should be highlighting that and the prospect of more damaging Tories returning after Labour. 

I'm not saying I agree with it but I think I understand the logic. I'll use the Scotland team as an example. Back in the early 1990s (or possibly even early) it became apparent to people paying close attention that we were no longer producing the calibre of player we used to, or, at least, not to the same degree as we used to. This was an early indication that our game was likely to go into decline if certain things, particularly coaching - and especially coaching at youth level - weren't brought up-to-date. The SFA ummed and ahhed a bit, and even went as far as commissioning the Dutch coach Rinus Michels to write a paper on where we could improve (which they ignored), but nothing really changed at the time because the national team were still regularly qualifying for tournaments, and that's all people really cared about.

Come the end of the decade, with the core of players Craig Brown had led to back-to-back finals having reached their thirties and retired, it became starkly apparent that most of the younger guys brought into replace them just weren't as good. That's when the shit hit the fan; the team started to lose games regularly (and often heavily) and could not qualify for tournaments. Eventually the SFA did something about it but it's taken until the last couple of years for the fruits of that endeavour to emerge.

So basically, the logic is that sometimes you need a skelp to bring yourself to your senses, and the sooner you're skelped the sooner you can get back on track.

That said, I'll still almost certainly be voting SNP in the election. I have a good candidate to vote for but even if I hadn't, I would still probably vote SNP in the absence of any other independence-supporting candidate, because allowing a unionist party to take the seat sends the wrong message to the people we want to send a message to, and if enough unionist seats are returned they'll use that as justification for making independence even harder to achieve in the future. 

4 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Utter tosh.

A thumping for the SNP is a thumping for independence hopes and gives even less credibility to those of us who ache, crave and desire Scottish independence every day of our lives. 

If you actually believe what you are posting resign your membership as that sends a bigger message to the SNP otherwise you are no more than a snake in the grass. Do as your hero did and resign and become a fully fledged member of Alba.

I am happy with voting SNP as it prevents me being a supporter of this sham of a union. If you are happy voting for a unionist party and are not voting for a pro-independence party (at the very least) then you have no place on this thread.

I know the SNP has problems but you stick with it. The other option - knuckle under to your unionist masters.

To be fair to HL, I haven't seen him say he'll vote for a unionist party.

[Ally Bongo]

The problem with "changing the SNP from within" is that it is impossible at the moment

The party has been severely hi-jacked and the NEC gerrymandered to ensure the wokerati is represented above those that desire Independence

I stopped funding the SNP but i will continue to vote for them because of the alternatives

Another problem is the SNP hope that and factor it in

[vanderark14]

18 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Lets take a vote on here.. If the election was tomorrow who are people voting for? 
Labour ? Nobody? Is the SNP losing massively , and very possibly then losing the Holyrood election due to the media smelling blood and the guaranteed  onslaught, is this really going to make people feel better ? Is it going to make Scotland a fairer country? Losing free prescriptions, free university tuition, the additional benefits for impoverished familles , free bus travel for old and young , reduced rail fares, mitigation of bedroom tax , no chance ever of a referendum? 

But at least that hugely powerful trans group will have been told and JK Rowling will be happy 👍

If I were in Scotland I would vote SNP- still see them as a means to an end

However, my choice here is going be Tory, Labour or Lib Dem. my conscience won't let me vote for any unionist party. We had Damien Hinds as our MP but since the lines were re-drawn, we have Jeremy Hunt. My area is probably the safest or at least one of the safest Tory seats in the country.

I will draw a penis on my ballot paper

[Ally Bongo]

[Orraloon]

42 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The problem with "changing the SNP from within" is that it is impossible at the moment

The party has been severely hi-jacked and the NEC gerrymandered to ensure the wokerati is represented above those that desire Independence

I stopped funding the SNP but i will continue to vote for them because of the alternatives

Another problem is the SNP hope that and factor it in

How did the "wokerati" (whoever they are) get into that position in the first place, though. They started at the bottom and worked their way up. Nae sniggers at the back of the class. Nicola didn't go cruising round the pubs, picking up folk she thought looked like weirdos, saying "Come with me and I'll stick you on the NEC". I know some folk might like think that was what happened, but it really wasn't. 

[Ally Bongo]

15 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

How did the "wokerati" (whoever they are) get into that position in the first place, though. They started at the bottom and worked their way up. Nae sniggers at the back of the class. Nicola didn't go cruising round the pubs, picking up folk she thought looked like weirdos, saying "Come with me and I'll stick you on the NEC". I know some folk might like think that was what happened, but it really wasn't. 

https://www.barrheadboy.com/infiltration-of-the-snp/

[Alibi]

I will be voting SNP at the UK general election.  Under no circumstances could I ever vote for a party that didn't support independence for Scotland.  Independence is the main reason I vote.  A party's other policies are of course of importance but as long as they are reasonable it's unlikely to be a great problem.  I could never vote Labour because despite the line taken by the MSM and BBC Scotland, they are not a slightly left of centre social democratic party (as the SNP were until they became infiltrated by folk intent on destroying the indy movement from within).

Labour are pro-brexit, anti-indy, anti democracy, in essence pretty much like a Tory party from ten years ago. Sir Starmer is a particularly slimy snake of a man.  I don't believe what has happened to the SNP is accidental - someone somewhere has masterminded the actions needed to corrupt the party and remove any semblance of voting power from the members.  I disagree strongly with some policies brought to the fore by the SNP, mainly the contentious ones that no sensible leader would have considered, let alone championed, and I regard the Greens as a collection of weirdos who should have been dropped long ago.  alba have a lot of good ideas and I have nothing against them, but it would probably be far better if they all rejoined the SNP and changed it from within if that were possible.  And I think that Salmond, sadly, would be better stepping back and becoming an elder statesman rather than leading a party that is gaining little traction.  Problem is he is still by far the best politician in Scotland by a country mile, but his best role would be as a leader of the indy movement, above party politics.

Those who say they won't support the SNP are on the wrong track. Any vote for a unionist party will be weaponised and used against the indy movement.  Give them half a chance and Holyrood will be closed down or reduced to an impotent shell of a parliament.

Finally, we need the SNP to give us a reason to vote for them.  Nothing vague or half hearted.  The manifesto needs to make a clear statement that a vote for the SNP is a vote for indy - and not just for another feeble request for a section 30 order.  That won't get us anywhere and is conceding defeat before a vote is cast.

 

[scotlad]

24 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

How did the "wokerati" (whoever they are) get into that position in the first place, though. They started at the bottom and worked their way up. Nae sniggers at the back of the class. Nicola didn't go cruising round the pubs, picking up folk she thought looked like weirdos, saying "Come with me and I'll stick you on the NEC". I know some folk might like think that was what happened, but it really wasn't. 

Too late. Now we've both committed hate crimes.

Thanks for that. 🙄

[Alibi]

17 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

https://www.barrheadboy.com/infiltration-of-the-snp/

Well worth a read.

[hampden_loon2878]

3 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I agree. That is why I am still in the party and why I go to every bloody meeting no matter how frustrating it is and deliver shed loads of leaflets that may or may not make a blind bit of difference. I have recently delivered tons of YES ‘independence ‘ leaflets for the SNP , despite what some folk might think there is actually some action on independence. I voted for Kate Forbes , probably the only active person in my branch who did. I was as pissed off as the next person when she didn’t win and bloody raging at the open support Humza was given by MP’s and MSP’s. 

However,  if I was so disenchanted with everything to the point I intended voting for another party at the election I would resign and I would make it very clear why. 

we lost more than half our members and the top yins didnt give a shit or disclose to the party the mass exodus,, we need to ask the question why, IMHO they wanted that,,then the question has to be, why they wanted that? i put independence before party, my grandfather was one of the members from the old days who got the party a foothold in the northeast where they managed to build a base..i will not let these charlatans drive me from the party

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

an absolute cunt of a man

[TDYER63]

3 hours ago, Orraloon said:

You should get your name down as a candidate for the next local government elections. Only 3 years away. Get your interest known early.

 

3 hours ago, Grim Jim said:

I second that.   You seem to have your head screwed on.

You'll want to delete all your old harvesting posts though before the press dig those up.

 

😆 I doubt the vetting would  progress beyond my school report cards. 

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

How did the "wokerati" (whoever they are) get into that position in the first place, though. They started at the bottom and worked their way up. Nae sniggers at the back of the class. Nicola didn't go cruising round the pubs, picking up folk she thought looked like weirdos, saying "Come with me and I'll stick you on the NEC". I know some folk might like think that was what happened, but it really wasn't. 

well in my area they made a woman only shortlist for MSP selection, bullied anyone they didnt want to stand so we got karen adams and her merry bunch of woke hanger ons,, they sidelines any councilors they didnt like such as john cox,, i know for a fact this came from the top of the party as i knew a lady who was going to challenge 

[TDYER63]

21 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

we lost more than half our members and the top yins didnt give a shit or disclose to the party the mass exodus,, we need to ask the question why, IMHO they wanted that,,then the question has to be, why they wanted that? i put independence before party, my grandfather was one of the members from the old days who got the party a foothold in the northeast where they managed to build a base..i will not let these charlatans drive me from the party

I dont doubt your commitment in anyway whatsoever, we just have different ideas on the best way forward. 
Why do you think they wanted members leaving. ? I find it quite hard to believe they were happy to potentially sign their own p45. Although why a full analysis was not undertaken in respect of the membership drop is baffling. 
Are you saying that all the people at the top are plants ? 

[TDYER63]

28 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

an absolute cunt of a man

He has truly gone full Gammon mode. 

[Grim Jim]

2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

https://www.barrheadboy.com/infiltration-of-the-snp/

 

2 hours ago, Alibi said:

Well worth a read.

Certainly was, thanks.   The comments too!!!

As an aside, one of the commentors was an old poster on here, ChicMac.   Glad to see him still taking an interest.   He got abuse on here for being only interested in politics.

I remember him with interest since, before discovering this place, he was an ex. colleague.   Back in the day, even though I was 100% SNP, I thought he was a bit OTT.   Nowadays I know he was spot on, and he still give some practical advice in the comments.

Another guy I used to work with was also correct however.   Solid Rangers supporter, his only argument to me was that they [the British establishment] wouldn't allow it [independence].

 

[Malcolm]

Great to see Police Scotland come out and say JKR has not committed any offence.  How about arresting all these people reporting her for wasting police time?

the Scottish Government could do with finding a new Ad agency… that hate monster campaign is about as laughable as the last SNP party political broadcast. 😂

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

I dont doubt your commitment in anyway whatsoever, we just have different ideas on the best way forward. 
Why do you think they wanted members leaving. ? I find it quite hard to believe they were happy to potentially sign their own p45. Although why a full analysis was not undertaken in respect of the membership drop is baffling. 
Are you saying that all the people at the top are plants ? 

I am saying that is extremely possible and more likely than not, intentionally harmed the party.. 

[mariokempes]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

I am saying that is extremely possible and more likely than not, intentionally harmed the party.. 

Yep. Still most cannot see this.

 

I despair. 

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

Great to see Police Scotland come out and say JKR has not committed any offence.  How about arresting all these people reporting her for wasting police time?

the Scottish Government could do with finding a new Ad agency… that hate monster campaign is about as laughable as the last SNP party political broadcast. 😂

How is Scotland different from England ?

https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/hate-crime

[Kirk]

7 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Utter twat, he's getting worse 

[Toepoke]

7 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

He shouldn't have had a problem with GSTK being booed then 🤷

 

[StirlingEgg]

8 hours ago, scotlad said:

I'm not saying I agree with it but I think I understand the logic. I'll use the Scotland team as an example. Back in the early 1990s (or possibly even early) it became apparent to people paying close attention that we were no longer producing the calibre of player we used to, or, at least, not to the same degree as we used to. This was an early indication that our game was likely to go into decline if certain things, particularly coaching - and especially coaching at youth level - weren't brought up-to-date. The SFA ummed and ahhed a bit, and even went as far as commissioning the Dutch coach Rinus Michels to write a paper on where we could improve (which they ignored), but nothing really changed at the time because the national team were still regularly qualifying for tournaments, and that's all people really cared about.

Come the end of the decade, with the core of players Craig Brown had led to back-to-back finals having reached their thirties and retired, it became starkly apparent that most of the younger guys brought into replace them just weren't as good. That's when the shit hit the fan; the team started to lose games regularly (and often heavily) and could not qualify for tournaments. Eventually the SFA did something about it but it's taken until the last couple of years for the fruits of that endeavour to emerge.

So basically, the logic is that sometimes you need a skelp to bring yourself to your senses, and the sooner you're skelped the sooner you can get back on track.

That said, I'll still almost certainly be voting SNP in the election. I have a good candidate to vote for but even if I hadn't, I would still probably vote SNP in the absence of any other independence-supporting candidate, because allowing a unionist party to take the seat sends the wrong message to the people we want to send a message to, and if enough unionist seats are returned they'll use that as justification for making independence even harder to achieve in the future. 

To be fair to HL, I haven't seen him say he'll vote for a unionist party.

Thank you @scotlad and for the analogy too, I might go and read up on the Dutch coach's report! To continue the analogy, are the SFA under the thumb of the English FA though? At least they had/have it in their own hands to progress. 

I read the link further on up the thread and got even more overwhelmed in the comments...it seems I can vote for the British State or...the British State 😳