kumnio Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 (edited) You can only piss with the cock that you have. Tell the Greece team that won the Euros that, tell Leicester that won the English Premier League that, hell, tell Michael O'Neil that tonight. A good manager makes a squad of players better than they are. Forgetting the 4 big teams that we have played recently, we were shocking tonight, very poor in Georgia and average at best against Norway. People can't on one hand say that Clarke has solved so many problems, then defend him for squad limitations when we can't perform against a far inferior side, which NI certainly are. Our last good performance is a very long time ago, Clarke needs to get things sorted, and quickly. No matter how you spin it, 5 defeats and 2 draws, with a defence that is completely incapable of defending is worrying. Clarkes strong point was meant to be, being solid and organised, well anyone that has watched us over the last year would be very surprised at that. Edited March 27 by kumnio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Scot Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 49 minutes ago, kumnio said: You can only piss with the cock that you have. Tell the Greece team that won the Euros that, tell Leicester that won the English Premier League that, hell, tell Michael O'Neil that tonight. A good manager makes a squad of players better than they are. Forgetting the 4 big teams that we have played recently, we were shocking tonight, very poor in Georgia and average at best against Norway. People can't on one hand say that Clarke has solved so many problems, then defend him for squad limitations when we can't perform against a far inferior side, which NI certainly are. Our last good performance is a very long time ago, Clarke needs to get things sorted, and quickly. No matter how you spin it, 5 defeats and 2 draws, with a defence that is completely incapable of defending is worrying. Clarkes strong point was meant to be, being solid and organised, well anyone that has watched us over the last year would be very surprised at that. Worringly yes. Reason to sack the manager. Not even close. As much as tonight was unacceptable and the other 2 games you mention we werent at our best. None of them mattered. Clarke was given a remit of getting us to our 1st majors in 20 years. He not only did that but got us to consecutive euros, putting in some top performances along the way. On top of that we topped our nations league group and are now in the highest grouping in that competition. He has exceeded realistic expectations which has in turn raised the bar. He has choosen to play friendlys against the very best nations because he thinks its whats needed to make us better. That would always come with a risk of taking some doings but he did it as he believes it will pay off. Up until tonight we have been playing like a really good footballing team for a 2 or 3 years now. Tonight was a throw back to darker times but lets just hope we can get back to where we were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 20 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said: As much as tonight was unacceptable and the other 2 games you mention we werent at our best. None of them mattered. That attitude is nonsense. Every game matters, every single one. No wonder we struggle to improve. 20 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said: Up until tonight we have been playing like a really good footballing team for a 2 or 3 years now. Tonight was a throw back to darker times but lets just hope we can get back to where we were. Simply not true, you're just glossing over what you don't want to see. Cyprus was good, England was embarrassing, Spain was decent, France was humiliating, Georgia was insipid, Norway was poor, Netherlands was decent before we collapsed and NI was dreadful. Think thats all we have played this season, we haven't been a really good footballing team this season, let alone 2-3 years. I wanted him sacked a couple of years ago, I fully believe he deserved it. Im not calling for him to be sacked now, but results and performances are very worrying, formations, tactics and substitutions are very questionable. We have went backwards over the last year, even allowing for the teams that we have played & he needs to stop this slide. If he doesn't, then I fear Germany will be another 1 point gained, 1 goal scored waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoonTheSlope Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 He’s not beneath scrutiny and questions need to be answered Is his position currently untenable? No but a tournament similar to 2020 leaves his jaiket on a shoogley and options would need to be explored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 For those going on about Wales and Northern Ireland playing teenagers. Neither of those nations are going to the Euros. Wales may have been unlucky but they ain't going. Looking back on last night, Northern Ireland are fucking pish. They played out of their skin in a friendly but they did absolutely nothing, scotland beat themselves. I reckon if we played them again on Saturday we'd batter them or if it was a qualifier we'd batter them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 8 hours ago, Hertsscot said: Well simple one for Doak. He's injured. Yes I know this... He didnt pick him before he was injured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, vanderark14 said: For those going on about Wales and Northern Ireland playing teenagers. Neither of those nations are going to the Euros. Wales may have been unlucky but they ain't going. Looking back on last night, Northern Ireland are fucking pish. They played out of their skin in a friendly but they did absolutely nothing, scotland beat themselves. I reckon if we played them again on Saturday we'd batter them or if it was a qualifier we'd batter them. Wales have been performing well above us fot years now and that is in part due to them blooding in a host of quality teenagers... England, Spain and Brazil have all been playing teenagers in recent games so your argument doesnt hold any weight. Why are we still picking the likes of Greg Taylor or Ralston for frnedlies or sqauds who we know what they are capable of/unlikely to ever play when we have youngsters like Johnston and Doig waiting to come through and take their chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: Wales have been performing well above us fot years now and that is in part due to them blooding in a host of quality teenagers... England, Spain and Brazil have all been playing teenagers in recent games so your argument doesnt hold any weight. Why are we still picking the likes of Greg Taylor or Ralston for frnedlies or sqauds who we know what they are capable of/unlikely to ever play when we have youngsters like Johnston and Doig waiting to come through and take their chance. Wales performed well because they had a global superstar in their ranks who scored for fun and they had more solid defenders, it wasn't down to just blooding teenagers. I'd also argue it was down to them having a lack of depth. Which teenagers have England Spain and Brazil played recently? At the moment we have 3 names often mentioned on here. Doig - he will only sit on the bench like Taylor. Is it better for him to continue developing with the U21s or sit warming the bench? Doak - currently injured and since being back hasn't been in the Liverpool squad. Who do we drop for him? Conway - there's an argument for him to be called up as he plays at the same level as dykes and adams but he is not much more prolific. I guess a a goalie could be left out for any of the above. We don't need 4 GKs. Who else is there? Edited March 27 by vanderark14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganRoy Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 4 goalies, yet he plays 1. Doesn't start Ferguson despite the need to see him in there - only comes on as part of a formation change last night. Persisted with Paterson, who (departed needing game time) looks absolutely nowhere ready mentally. It ends up with 2 up top, yet looked clueless for the last 10/15 mins. Last night goes down as a horror show, and fortunately, he has banked goodwill, but qualifying has blinded some poor performances. A friendly or not, these games are meant to be about keeping things ticking along and building confidence, we look like we've regressed, and there's little to smile about. Amsterdam was noisy, but they deserved to the boos last night. Finland and Gibraltar both must wins to bring back confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 We have won 15 of our last 21 qualifiers and people are calling for Clarke's head 😆 morons! Qualified for Euro 2020 then followed it up by easily qualifying for 2024. Are people honestly forgetting the last 20 years? Yes some bad performances along the way like Republic of Ireland away and last night but fs, look at the bigger picture. Sacking a manager who has won 15/21 competitive games? That's an unbelievable record! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yr Alban Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 So, after looking imperious pretty much the whole way through qualifying, now we’ve completely lost our mojo and we look hopeless again. With pretty much exactly the same squad. I worry that the hopeless is closer to the actual ability of our players, and that we managed to play above ourselves for a while. If we could find that once then we can find it again, but we’d better get a move on if we don’t want another ignominious failure at a major finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 42 minutes ago, trout101 said: We have won 15 of our last 21 qualifiers and people are calling for Clarke's head 😆 morons! Qualified for Euro 2020 then followed it up by easily qualifying for 2024. Are people honestly forgetting the last 20 years? Yes some bad performances along the way like Republic of Ireland away and last night but fs, look at the bigger picture. Sacking a manager who has won 15/21 competitive games? That's an unbelievable record! It's also 16 out of the last 31 depending on how selective you want to be with your cut off date. Either way, his win ration isn't any better than Alex McLeish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 9 minutes ago, Yr Alban said: So, after looking imperious pretty much the whole way through qualifying, now we’ve completely lost our mojo and we look hopeless again. With pretty much exactly the same squad. I worry that the hopeless is closer to the actual ability of our players, and that we managed to play above ourselves for a while. If we could find that once then we can find it again, but we’d better get a move on if we don’t want another ignominious failure at a major finals. Imperious is stretching it a bit 99 times out of 100 we don't win that game in Norway - They were coasting and took Haaland off Then there is the Spanish defender slipping - allowing Robertson to cut it back for McTominay. We have carried some amount of luck It really is fine margins between qualifying and finishing 3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanBlessed Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 19 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Imperious is stretching it a bit 99 times out of 100 we don't win that game in Norway - They were coasting and took Haaland off Then there is the Spanish defender slipping - allowing Robertson to cut it back for McTominay. We have carried some amount of luck It really is fine margins between qualifying and finishing 3rd Agreed. In the cold light of day, our qualification wasn't as impressive as it looks. Yes, we deserved to beat Spain (who basically gave up in the 2nd half) but, on another day, there's no slip or they score one of their chances (they came close a few times). Take out the silly mistake from Ostigard and we (deservedly) lose in Norway. As for Georgia, the game shouldn't have started and once they came back out, their heads were already gone. I think we would probably have still qualified without all the lucky circumstances but it would have been much closer. I would say that things certainly haven't gone for us in the last two games so maybe they will in the Euros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 28 minutes ago, Orraloon said: It's also 16 out of the last 31 depending on how selective you want to be with your cut off date. Either way, his win ration isn't any better than Alex McLeish. McLeish's first spell was only 10 games and second spell was a disaster. Also, who cares? Clarke has largely won when it matters- to get us to 2 Euros in a row. If you has said that would happen back in 2018 you'd have been utterly delirious with joy. Now seeing a load of revisionism about an emphatic qualification for Euro 2024 where we qualified with games to spare , again utterly unheard of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 7 minutes ago, BryanBlessed said: but, on another day, there's no slip or they score one of their chances (they came close a few times) what a daft argument fs, we can't even qualify for the euros now without people being negative. We beat Spain, Norway and Georgia cause we deserved to beat them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 hours ago, Scotty2Hotty said: Yes I know this... He didnt pick him before he was injured Neither did Klopp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 9 minutes ago, trout101 said: McLeish's first spell was only 10 games and second spell was a disaster. Also, who cares? Clarke has largely won when it matters- to get us to 2 Euros in a row. If you has said that would happen back in 2018 you'd have been utterly delirious with joy. Now seeing a load of revisionism about an emphatic qualification for Euro 2024 where we qualified with games to spare , again utterly unheard of. Agreed. Last night was pish. not one player got pass marks, neither did the management. Negativity will help no cunt between now and June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanBlessed Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 11 minutes ago, trout101 said: what a daft argument fs, we can't even qualify for the euros now without people being negative. We beat Spain, Norway and Georgia cause we deserved to beat them. I think you're the one being daft here: The team that wins isn't always the team that deserves to win. The point was that things really went for us in qualifying. Now they're not. We're not as good as it looks from qualifying but we're also not as bad as recent results would have you believe; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 29 minutes ago, trout101 said: McLeish's first spell was only 10 games and second spell was a disaster. Also, who cares? Clarke has largely won when it matters- to get us to 2 Euros in a row. If you has said that would happen back in 2018 you'd have been utterly delirious with joy. Now seeing a load of revisionism about an emphatic qualification for Euro 2024 where we qualified with games to spare , again utterly unheard of. I was just pointing out that you had been very selective with your stats. I guess you hoped nobody would notice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 5 minutes ago, Orraloon said: I was just pointing out that you had been very selective with your stats. I guess you hoped nobody would notice? I just took it from a tweet I saw earlier which stated 15/21 qualifiers we have won vs 2 in 19 friendlies. I know which ones I'd rather win. Here's a stat for you: last 2 euros= 2 qualifications, is that too selective for you? Tartan Army are the most negative people in the world. Cry for years we don;t qualify or bad luck blah blah, actually qualify 2 times and some want the manager sacked. It's ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 24 minutes ago, BryanBlessed said: I think you're the one being daft here: The team that wins isn't always the team that deserves to win. The point was that things really went for us in qualifying. Now they're not. We're not as good as it looks from qualifying but we're also not as bad as recent results would have you believe; Obviously not. But we did deserve to beat Spain & Georgia at home didn't we. We were the better team. Yeah Norway was smash and grab but who cares. It's just ludicrous mentioning a spain player slipping in the build up for a goal as if that somehow devalues the result. The performance that night was excellent. You don't qualify like that due to luck. We did it cause we were the 2nd best team in the group over 10 games (almost best). If you're talking about luck - what about McT's goal being ruled out v Spain away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 4 minutes ago, trout101 said: I just took it from a tweet I saw earlier which stated 15/21 qualifiers we have won vs 2 in 19 friendlies. I know which ones I'd rather win. Ok, so you just repeated somebody else's selective stat. That's fair enough. That's what folk who use stats, to back up their argument, often rely on. They know that most folk will just take those stats at face value, and not bother to check the real significance of those stats. I think Clarke is doing a good job and I'm not too bothered about friendly results. I'm sure he will be learning from them. I don't really care whether folk are slagging him off, or think he is a god. I just like to point out when folk are manipulating stats to try to back up their argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 10 minutes ago, trout101 said: Obviously not. But we did deserve to beat Spain & Georgia at home didn't we. We were the better team. Yeah Norway was smash and grab but who cares. It's just ludicrous mentioning a spain player slipping in the build up for a goal as if that somehow devalues the result. The performance that night was excellent. You don't qualify like that due to luck. We did it cause we were the 2nd best team in the group over 10 games (almost best). If you're talking about luck - what about McT's goal being ruled out v Spain away. And you could counter Spanish player's slip with Hickey's slip away to Spain. We deserved to qualify - no two ways about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 8 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Ok, so you just repeated somebody else's selective stat. That's fair enough. That's what folk who use stats, to back up their argument, often rely on. They know that most folk will just take those stats at face value, and not bother to check the real significance of those stats. I think Clarke is doing a good job and I'm not too bothered about friendly results. I'm sure he will be learning from them. I don't really care whether folk are slagging him off, or think he is a god. I just like to point out when folk are manipulating stats to try to back up their argument. Call it selective if you want but the point remains that a) we have a terrible record in friendlies and b) we have performed well in our last 2 qualifying campaigns under clarke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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