Scottish players in action 21/22

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Well that's blatantly not true 

Thats club form and it is true. 

 

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Lets just look at the important goals Dykes has scored for us:-

Goal in the last four minutes away to Faroe Islands to give us a much-needed win.

Goal in the dying minutes of the match against Norway in Oslo that triggered our best comeback wins in decades.

Equaliser in crunch match at home to Israel.

Pretty sure there are lots more too lets not forget his set-up for McLean's winner in Oslo and other notable link-up play.

Adams too has made important contributions such as:-

Second and clinching goal at home to Denmark that sealed our play-off spot.

Also won that crucial penalty away to Austria to give us vitally important win.

Again pretty sure he has contributed lots more.

Now the big question is why would you drop them for either untried or tried and failed options?

I've not denied their contributions and I said elsewhere that only the third striker place was up for grabs. 

I didn't realise how bad their club form was until I compared it with other players.

The question was were do you draw the line. If Dykes can't get on the pitch for QPR would you still pick him? 

[Caledonian Craig]

34 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

 

The question was were do you draw the line. If Dykes can't get on the pitch for QPR would you still pick him? 

Yes I would. There are no Scottish Ronaldo's or Haaland's out there - that much we know and there isn't one coming along in the next six months. I don't think that is really up for debate.

We can scrutinize club form but it does not necessarily prove to be relevant at international level as we have seen in the past. I think of players like Charlie Adam, Leigh Griffiths, Charlie Nicholas and Brian McClair who had some cracking form and club stats but at international level it did not amount to much. On the other side of the coin we have had players who have not scaled the heights in club football but have proved valuable to the national team - Dykes and Adams fall into that category I would say.

Also our team is set-up in a way that we can and do get results even without a prolific striker as we have goalscoring midfielders and defenders who chip in with goals. At present that formula is proving successful for us and has seen us go on an impressive run of results over the last two to three years. Until a point that our results dry up and midfield stop scoring and strikers are not contributing will be the time to really worry. Now is not that time.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Caledonian Craig

[Marky]

Could the main protagonists here possibly start a “How good are our strikers?” thread to boringly squabble over the relative qualities of our striking options, instead of clogging up a thread designed to talk about Scotland players in action. Just a polite request. 

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Thats club form and it is true. 

 

 

Club form i'm not arsed about, i only care how they do in a Scotland shirt. 

If we were going on club form then Tierney wouldn't be in the squad most of his arsenal career. McGinn would have been dropped when Gerrard was Villa boss etc and Patterson wouldn't be near a squad as he can't get near a rank rotten Everton side. 

[todd]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes but was still important.

It was indeed and if not for the Ukraine conflict, which undeniably changed the whole dynamic of the fixture, we would've made it to Qatar, imo

[aaid]

25 minutes ago, todd said:

It was indeed and if not for the Ukraine conflict, which undeniably changed the whole dynamic of the fixture, we would've made it to Qatar, imo

Given that we couldn’t beat Ukraine, who were then beaten by Wales three days later, I’m not sure how you can draw that conclusion.

[aaid]

41 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Club form i'm not arsed about, i only care how they do in a Scotland shirt. 

If we were going on club form then Tierney wouldn't be in the squad most of his arsenal career. McGinn would have been dropped when Gerrard was Villa boss etc and Patterson wouldn't be near a squad as he can't get near a rank rotten Everton side. 

I saw an interview with Clarke in the buildup to the Georgia game.  Clarke said then that he had a core to the squad, that would be picked every time assuming they weren’t injured.  I assume that Dykes and Adams are part of that core.  He will know himself the players that he can depend on regardless of their club form.

[mccaughey85]

54 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Club form i'm not arsed about, i only care how they do in a Scotland shirt. 

If we were going on club form then Tierney wouldn't be in the squad most of his arsenal career. McGinn would have been dropped when Gerrard was Villa boss etc and Patterson wouldn't be near a squad as he can't get near a rank rotten Everton side. 

No international manager drops his established players because of a dip in club form. We wouldn't have any players if that was the case.

None of our rightbacks would get near the Everton side barring hickey so I don't understand that point.

[todd]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

Given that we couldn’t beat Ukraine, who were then beaten by Wales three days later, I’m not sure how you can draw that conclusion.

I already stated how it wasn't a normal match due to the recent invasion. Christ, even some of our very own were wanting us to lose that game on account of the Ukraine love-in!  You're suggesting that in no way any of that affected the players minds and performances? 

Look at the result in the same fixture just 3 months later when people stopped giving a shit.

That's how I'm sure I can draw that conclusion 

Edited November 28, 2023 by todd

[aaid]

21 minutes ago, todd said:

I already stated how it wasn't a normal match due to the recent invasion. Christ, even some of our very own were wanting us to lose that game on account of the Ukraine love-in!  You're suggesting that in no way any of that affected the players minds and performances? 

Look at the result in the same fixture just 3 months later when people stopped giving a shit.

That's how I'm sure I can draw that conclusion 

So why did they get beaten by Wales three days later?

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, aaid said:

So why did they get beaten by Wales three days later?

Failed to take their chances.

In the two games Scotland had more shots, more possession, better pass accuracy and more corners than Wales managed. Ukraine had more shots on goal against Wales too than they did against us. In short Wales got lucky.

[todd]

14 minutes ago, aaid said:

So why did they get beaten by Wales three days later?

Because ours was their first game since they were invaded.  After that there was no right-on agenda to be had with wanting them to win. People pretend to care for a surprising short time, or at least until media attention has weaned. That game was a circus. Had they played Wales before us they probably would've beaten them

Edited November 28, 2023 by todd

[aaid]

19 minutes ago, todd said:

Because ours was their first game since they were invaded.  After that there was no right-on agenda to be had with wanting them to win. People pretend to care for a surprising short time, or at least until media attention has weaned. That game was a circus. Had they played Wales before us they probably would've beaten them

So the “right-on circus” only lasted for three days.

[immcinto]

21 minutes ago, aaid said:

So the “right-on circus” only lasted for three days.

I don't like the whole "right-on" thing, but, yeah, the whole "give Ukraine a free pass to the WCF and only a d*ck would think otherwise" did just disappear after the Scotland game. Remember Souness et al saying we should be ashamed for even playing the game? NEver heard a peep after Wales beat them

[aaid]

Just now, immcinto said:

I don't like the whole "right-on" thing, but, yeah, the whole "give Ukraine a free pass to the WCF and only a d*ck would think otherwise" did just disappear after the Scotland game. Remember Souness et al saying we should be ashamed for even playing the game? NEver heard a peep after Wales beat them

Do you follow Welsh football pundits as a matter of course?

[immcinto]

4 minutes ago, aaid said:

Do you follow Welsh football pundits as a matter of course?

No, but I was around that time. 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/graham-souness-hope-ukraine-beat-27097364

You are welcome to post links to the Wales pundits who were cutting the feet from under their team just as they were about to play one of the most important games in their lives.
 

[aaid]

9 minutes ago, immcinto said:

No, but I was around that time. 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/graham-souness-hope-ukraine-beat-27097364

You are welcome to post links to the Wales pundits who were cutting the feet from under their team just as they were about to play one of the most important games in their lives.
 

Fair enough, it took six seconds 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61705300

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/05/i-saw-ukraines-football-party-10-years-ago-and-ill-be-supporting-them-against-wales

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/jun/04/wales-emotional-ukraine-final-can-many-any-fans-heart-skip-a-beat-world-cup-playoff
 

[immcinto]

28 minutes ago, aaid said:

Fair enough, it took six seconds 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61705300

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/05/i-saw-ukraines-football-party-10-years-ago-and-ill-be-supporting-them-against-wales

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/jun/04/wales-emotional-ukraine-final-can-many-any-fans-heart-skip-a-beat-world-cup-playoff
 

Do you have any examples of actual Wales pundits or fans wanting Ukraine to win or suggesting they be given a by? I think the closest you have is a Guardian Foreign War Correspondent who claims "Welsh heritage"

[ceudmilefailte]

Goal for Dykes😏

[syecosse]

Mellon on the scoresheet for Morecombe again, Bowie 2 in 3 days for Blackpool, outsider now but Tom Cairney got MOM last night in the prem for Fulham v Wolves.

[Caledonian Craig]

A second goal for Dykes - apparently a cracker.

[thesaint]

4 hours ago, aaid said:

Fair enough, it took six seconds 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61705300

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/05/i-saw-ukraines-football-party-10-years-ago-and-ill-be-supporting-them-against-wales

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/jun/04/wales-emotional-ukraine-final-can-many-any-fans-heart-skip-a-beat-world-cup-playoff
 

Astonishing article from that creepy guy in the guardian.He is certainly well suited to that particular paper though.Truly horrible.😠

[immcinto]

9 hours ago, thesaint said:

Astonishing article from that creepy guy in the guardian.He is certainly well suited to that particular paper though.Truly horrible.😠

The article is OK. The guy is an Irish war correspondent with close ties to Eastern Europe. it is only posted here because the poster was scraping the barrel trying to find an example of a Welsh football pundit publicly backing Ukraine to beat Wales. It is completely out of context

[ProudScot]

10 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

A second goal for Dykes - apparently a cracker.

Great to see him back scoring. Hopefully goes on a run now

[JECK]

10 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

A second goal for Dykes - apparently a cracker.

It was indeed, would never have thought he’d have that in his locker. More of the same in the dark blue please