General Election 2019

[ParisInAKilt]

7 minutes ago, thplinth said:

I personally think that is an illusion (as do you judging by the scare quotes). 

Given the performance of the Tories since 2014 a few seats gained back from 2017 is a very poor return. 

Support for YES has flat-lined and the SNP have seemingly failed to capitalize on the huge second chance indyref opportunity that is BREXIT.

Read the comments to the Wings article - the folk who criticize him are saying the same thing over and over - the phrase they are using is 'I will be holding my nose and voting SNP on the 12th'.

Now ask yourself how that is possible given the mess the Tories have created since 2014. How is it possible to have inherited the enormous positivity and palpable sense that something fresh and new was happening (even despite the NO) and then in a few short years the party is on the verge of a split and people are having to hold their noses to vote SNP.

I would argue a plank of wood could have led the SNP post 2014 and we'd be in better shape than we are now. NS has the best luck of any politician I can think of as leader. Put in that context I think the SNP have hugely under performed during her reign.

The only thing holding it together at this point is the lure of getting independence. Once people lose hope that is going to happen anytime soon there is going to be a bloodbath in the SNP.

Again I’d struggle to disagree with any of that.

I suppose “well” means different things but on here people will be happy with the result. Personally I don’t think it really matters. 
 

It remains to be seen if the SNP’s stance on trans will affect voters and the goal of independence because all the parties are going down this route. 

Despite my apathy I’m curious how it will all play out in the years to come.

[ParisInAKilt]

10 minutes ago, aaid said:

This comment from a year ago? Hardly counts as a discussion or an explanation.

 

Sorry it was the unpopular opinions thread.

Not sure how to link posts from other threads.

Thplinth raised some good points in this thread as well mind ...

[aaid]

7 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Not sure how to link posts from other threads.

In the top right hand corner of the post you want to link to you'll see a link icon.  Click on that and you can copy the link, then paste it into the thread.

[aaid]

13 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Sorry it was the unpopular opinions thread.

Not sure how to link posts from other threads.

Thplinth raised some good points in this thread as well mind ...

The only thing I can see on that thread from you regarding Self ID is this post - lots of nonsense from you about Pride parades being havens for degenerates though.
 

Even assuming you agree with the article it still doesn't come close to explaining why it might be that the SNP - along with Labour, Greens, LibDems and Tories - are proposing reform of the GRA.

Your reluctance to answer that can only lead to one conclusion, you don't actually have an explanation.

[ParisInAKilt]

7 minutes ago, aaid said:

In the top right hand corner of the post you want to link to you'll see a link icon.  Click on that and you can copy the link, then paste it into the thread.

What’s your views on it?

[ParisInAKilt]

3 minutes ago, aaid said:

The only thing I can see on that thread from you regarding Self ID is this post - lots of nonsense from you about Pride parades being havens for degenerates though.
 

Even assuming you agree with the article it still doesn't come close to explaining why it might be that the SNP - along with Labour, Greens, LibDems and Tories - are proposing reform of the GRA.

Your reluctance to answer that can only lead to one conclusion, you don't actually have an explanation.

Or I didn’t want to get bogged down in this again on the general election thread? 
 

I think all the political parties are allowing a small amount of ideologically driven activists to drive GRA reform, and they are scared to push back or even pause for fear of being accused of transphobia. 

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

What’s your views on it?

My views on what - the GRA "debate"?     I don't think I particularly have a view on the subject matter.   On the "debate" all I see is people on both sides behaving pretty appalling and in the same manner towards the other side and is the case in these sectarian - in its broadest sense - divisions each side has an unimpeachable belief that they are right and the other side is wrong and you'll never get any form of consensus in that kind of atmosphere.

 

[ParisInAKilt]

18 minutes ago, aaid said:

My views on what - the GRA "debate"?     I don't think I particularly have a view on the subject matter.   On the "debate" all I see is people on both sides behaving pretty appalling and in the same manner towards the other side and is the case in these sectarian - in its broadest sense - divisions each side has an unimpeachable belief that they are right and the other side is wrong and you'll never get any form of consensus in that kind of atmosphere.

 

How many genders are there?
Do you support the direction the SNP is heading in here?

Agree with your views on the debate but then activists don’t want a consensus. 

[dipped flake]

17 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Denise Findlay has been made to resign from the SNP

She tweeted that comparing Israel = Nazi was not anti semitism and aforesaid tweets were given to C4

She also donated, as have many others, to Neale Hanvey's crowdfunder after the SNP withdrew support

According to the IHSA, at least I think that's what the anti semitic rules thing is called, it is anti semitic to link Israel's actions to Jews. If that's the case, how in hell can it be anti semitic to say anything bad about Israel

[aaid]

Just now, ParisInAKilt said:

How many genders are there?

As many as you want there to be. 




 

[aaid]

31 minutes ago, dipped flake said:

According to the IHSA, at least I think that's what the anti semitic rules thing is called, it is anti semitic to link Israel's actions to Jews. If that's the case, how in hell can it be anti semitic to say anything bad about Israel

That's not what it says.   What is says is this, which is a different thing altogether.
 

Quote

Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

So 

"Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is inhumane" is an acceptable criticism, "The Jews treatment of the Palestinians is inhumane" is unacceptable.
 

[ParisInAKilt]

10 minutes ago, aaid said:

As many as you want there to be. 
 

Good answer. 
 

Remember those of us sent to the gulag for wrong think in the post Indy progressive utopia.

[glasgow jock]

20 hours ago, kumnio said:

Scottish Labour believe that  Scotlands working class 'belongs' to them, they still live in a world of two party politics, its them or the Tories. This upstart party called the SNP have taken their voters, taken their position on the political spectrum, and they simply cant stand it. Because of this, they utterly despise the SNP, and would rather live under Tory policies that they disagree with, than under SNP policies that they agree with.

Cheers and that much is very obvious 

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, Dave78 said:

1979:

The SNP is divided by a group of young upstarts including Alex Salmond, Jim Sillars, and Margo McDonald. The division threatens to alienate large swathes of the electorate. They want to move SNP economic policy onto left-wing ground, and into supporting a Scottish republic.

 

2019:

The SNP is divided by a group of young upstarts, which threatens to alienate large swathes of the electorate. They want a minority group representing 0.6% of the population to have the right to piss in whatever bathroom they choose.

 

FFS  

 

[Eisegerwind]

43 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Good answer. 
 

Remember those of us sent to the gulag for wrong think in the post Indy progressive utopia.

They came for Parisinakilt and we said ..

 

He's over there,

 

They came for Thplinth and we said ....

 

 

He's also over there, the shouty raging sweary one.

 

 

[ParisInAKilt]

4 minutes ago, Eisegerwind said:

They came for Parisinakilt and we said ..

 

He's over there,

 

They came for Thplinth and we said ....

 

He's also over there, the shouty raging sweary one.

Haha. 
on this topic I think we’re in the majority ... for once 

[phart]

4 hours ago, thplinth said:

The comments to the Wings article are worth a read. Considering the timing I was expecting a lot of flak but surprisingly a lot of people feel exactly the same way.

Lot of people speculating that the SNP have been infiltrated... 

Regarding the GRA some of the comments by women are very interesting.

 

This is about a lot more than the GRA.

As a huge fan of combat sports i'd go as far to say it's unethical and immoral to pit a male to female transperson against a female in a fight.

In a fight there is no spin it's real, and that's the ultimate experiment.

Now if you want to watch Male to female Transpeople beat the absolute shit out of females in the name of equality/progression that seems a bit fucked up to me. I'm always reminded by what Feynman said about the shuttle disaster. With policy replacing technology.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled."

A lot of woman are seeing it as just another way for men to belittle and control woman. The problem is actually quite crazy at the fringes. Lesbians being called transphobe cause they wont have sex with a guy who identifies as a woman but has had no biological work to that end. It's actually becoming a huge problem for gay woman.

 

[Dave78]

20 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

 

It's incredible. Here are the SNP... 9 days out from another excellent election win. One which might secure a very winnable indyref2. On the cusp of achieving the party's 100 year old aim. People have died for this.

A huge fault line appears within the party. Must be something important right? 

No, it's chicks with dicks in the Marks and Spencers changing rooms.

[phart]

4 hours ago, aaid said:

You won't 

The arguments being made but since you don't like the poster you're missing it. Don't blame PAIK for your wilful blindness.

[phart]

Just now, Dave78 said:

It's incredible. Here are the SNP... 9 days out from another excellent election win. One which might secure a very winnable indyref2. On the cusp of achieving the party's 100 year old aim. People have died for this.

A huge fault line appears within the party. Must be something important right? 

No, it's chicks with dicks in the Marks and Spencers changing rooms.

You say it's not a big deal but you're committing a hate crime by saying that, Beyond denying the holocaust in possible punishment , if the legislation being demanded is enacted.

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, phart said:

The arguments being made but since you don't like the poster you're missing it. Don't blame PAIK for your wilful blindness.

Point me in the direction as I must be missing something.  Happy to be proven wrong.

[Dave78]

2 minutes ago, phart said:

You say it's not a big deal but you're committing a hate crime by saying that, Beyond denying the holocaust in possible punishment , if the legislation being demanded is enacted.

The legislation is going to make criticising the lack of unity among members of a political party a hate crime?

Ok, you're right... this is getting out of hand 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Dave78

[phart]

Just now, aaid said:

Point me in the direction as I must be missing something.  Happy to be proven wrong.

You have thplinth on ignore. He's in the thread making an argument as well, using quotes from Woman talking about the issue.

[thplinth]

There are a lot of good posts in the comments section of wings website. 

Quote

 

Capella says:
5 December, 2019 at 9:54 am

@ Maren – excellent comments above. This is not a fringe issue. This affects 52% of the voters.

Re anti-semitism, the current definition, which includes criticism of Israel as a state, was adopted in Scotland in April, 2017. Many people object to its chilling effect on freedom of speech. Trawling through twitter accounts to find historical evidence of something which is not unlawful then suspending unwitting opponents under current controversial definitions is absolutely typical of the woke faction.

Wikipedia has a good article on the current IHRC definition and its critics. Read it quickly before Philip Cross has time to edit it into oblivion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Definition_of_Antisemitism?wprov=sfla1

 

Agree with most of what breeks says here also...

Quote

 

Breeks says:
5 December, 2019 at 11:47 am
A wee bit perspective here… Or maybe just a wee bit of “my” perspective…

I don’t know whether SNP folk have short memories, or whether they harbour lingering resentment that they didn’t think of it themselves, but Rev Stu’s Wee Blue Book as almost the pivotal event in 2014, and was a spectacular resource in everybody’s pocket, and everywhere else from the office computer to the dentists waiting room.

We also lose perspective of just how bad the media was back in 2013/14, and while precious little has changed about the rotten media, public awareness about the Press and the perfidious BBC is a world apart and unrecognisable from 2014. Back then, people were still writing aggrieved complaints to the BBC Commissioners waste paper basket. That change in perception is a healthy new dynamic for us, and Wings over Scotland has played a pivotal roll in bringing it about. Wings was the place where people dared to criticise convention and risk the wrath of those who didn’t want the boat rocked for fear we’d make it worse.

But take a wee minute, and ask yourself what thanks or appreciation he’s had for his lonely dedication? What recognition there has been has been grudging and reluctant, with the Wee Blue Book acknowledged by private individuals, but from the “Official” party, virtually nothing. Scarcely a nod.

Cast your mind back too, when the SNP lost it’s Holyroodwas given a thump for it’s complacency in Theresa’s “snap” election, which was more of a “dark money ambush” election, there was constructive and informed discussion and debate about whether YES should be politicised as a stand-alone political party to scoop up list seats from second preference votes and heighten the prospect of a Scottish Parliament denied an outright majority by the system, but a powerful pro Independence majority assured with YES list seats.

It all made sense in 2017. If memory serves, there were even speculative YES dream team candidates in circulation.

There were however misgivings about whether YES the idea would be strengthened or weakened by politicisation, as YES was a mercurial phenomenon owned and cared for by everybody and no-one, so YES the party never happened, but the formula was sound… using Holyrood’s system to suit us they way it has suited Unionist parties and list seats.

But what the hell? When Rev Stu merely flies the kite to gauge opinion on the idea, and rekindle the constructive debate about having a Wings Party rather than YES hoovering up list seats, suddenly Rev Stu is the raving antichrist. Dear God, who the hell needs enemies when the SNP don’t like a thing?

As for Kezia and the defamation carry on… well I dunno if Rev Stu was all that bothered about winning, but it was an opportunity for all of us to show a bit solidarity with one of our stormtroopers suffering a flesh wound… but all he got was vilification.

And as for this woke shite and self ID carry on… I don’t know where to begin. For five years we can’t talk about Indy, Brexit is a perpetual enigma, and for chrissake don’t mention anything about Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty… but let’s allow the issue of Scottish Independence to be dominated by weirdos who want to deconstruct women’s sport and biological integrity.

Oh wait, they wanna deselect Joanna Cherry? I cannot think of a finer ambassador for women, and gay women at that, than our own Joanna Cherry… a gay Scottish lawyer who nailed Westminster and it’s phoney Constitution to the floor and forced them to respect the Scottish Courts. Nobody else did that in the last three centuries of our subjugation. Deselect her??? Ya know what? Why don’t we deselect the lot of you, and start again from scratch with Joanna Cherry at the heart of us?

It isn’t “our” Rev where the problem lies. It’s the SNP. The great billowing enigma where compelling warnings, constructive suggestions, illuminating conjecture, sound advice and legitimate concerns go in, but nothing ever comes out except “trust us, we’re the SNP. Who else you gonna vote for?”

If Nicola is a great as everybody thinks she is, then either she’s content to throw away our mandates, or she’s living in a bubble or cocoon and unaware of people’s anxiety.

Jesus H. Something has got to change. If it’s not Nicola standing down, and I think Rev Stu himself might agree that was said in anger, but once this election is out of the way, I hope Nicola doesn’t stand down exactly, but does stand sideways, and give over the Indy Campaign to a proactive fighter… and a big part of me hopes that is Joanna Cherry, with a roving licence to use every Constitutional and sovereign lever at our disposal to extricate Scotland from this Union.

Let the woke brigade assemble around Nicola where they can’t do any harm, but let the Indy Campaign be relieved of this controversy and be free to light the beacons, unfurl the banners and muster the troops. Lead us to freedom with a ballot in one hand and our legal Constitution in the other… Rev Stu will be there.

 

Reading the comments it seems Joanna Cherry is the consensus pick to replace NS.

[aaid]

Just now, phart said:

You have thplinth on ignore. He's in the thread making an argument as well, using quotes from Woman talking about the issue.

I'm interested in what PAIK's opinion is.