Sturgeon Refuses To Rule Out Another Referendum

[EvilScotsman]

Promotional material from the Scottish Government, Scottish local authorities and public bodies is banned for 28 days before the poll as a statutory requirement. The UK Government have a similar non-statutory commitment in the 2012 Edinburgh Agreement, para 29.

Thats the rule what promotional material did they publish ?

[Rossy]

45? Get it?

Oh yawn.

We get it, you won.

But try and recognise that in a stable, western country where revolution is not on the table, 45% voting for independence is a huge number.

At the very least, it's a mandate for significant constitutional change. It remains to be seen if we'll get that or not.

I'm not part of the 'let's have a referendum in 6 months (or even 2 years)' crowd.....but it would be deliberately simplifying issues to say that a relatively narrow no vote means that the issue of independence should go away forever.

A week is a long time in politics.....it's about the time that it takes for a vow to become a lie.....so God only knows how people will feel in 5 years or so.

[Nobby]

No that's a daily record front page, what did the political parties publish ? I don't think they did. They moved the goalposts to suit them just like the snp did when shifting from the euro and the ark of prosperity to a currency union that ruk would get whether we like it or not . Politicians do it all the time

Edited September 24, 2014 by Nobby

[Parklife]

No that's a daily record front page, what did the political parties publish ? I don't think they did. They moved the goalposts to suit them just like the snp did when shifting from the euro and the ark of prosperity to a currency union that ruk would get whether we like it or not . Politicians do it all the time

The SNP have changed positions on things, not 5 days before the country goes to the polls though.

If you think a political party changing a policy outwith an election period, is in anyway equatable to what the Westminster parties did last week, then you're deluded.

[runningtings]

Has anyone got a list of what these "new powers" are in any case?

[EvilScotsman]

No that's a daily record front page, what did the political parties publish ? I don't think they did. They moved the goalposts to suit them just like the snp did when shifting from the euro and the ark of prosperity to a currency union that ruk would get whether we like it or not . Politicians do it all the time

"New powers" = The same powers they announced in March (Labour) and other times for the Tories and LibDems.

The Daily Record front page came from Gordon Brown "guaranteeing new powers" 5 days before the referendum. The other papers had similar front pages.

Now, while technically they weren't announcing any new powers, as it was simply "guaranteeing" the Scots would get one of the parties proposals for extended devolution, what do you think the calculated effect of those headlines was?

This goes back to the problem of having the entire media arrayed against a 'Yes' vote - nobody in the mainstream was actually questioning any of this, and saying "hang on a minute - this is absolute bollocks and has no chance of being passed by Westminster" or even "hang on a minute - these 'new powers' are absolutely useless and can only result in the Scottish Parliament having to raise taxes simply to stand still". No, the mainstream media didn't give a about the whole 'journalism' thing - why bother when you can flog papers by simply repeating what Gordon Brown has ranted about.

[EvilScotsman]

Has anyone got a list of what these "new powers" are in any case?

Dog licencing.

The power to increase the cost of a TV licence by 45p.

Special 'Wig Tax' for Donald Trump.

Power over 3/5 of 1% of a tenth of the VAT rate.

[weekevie04]

Seen a bit on the news there, she quoted Brown didn't she with the ''as close to Federalism as the UK can''.

[thplinth]

This is great and is a direct consequence of us all (what is the number now) joining I reckon (at least in part).

Also 80,000 people at the last count complained to the electoral commission including myself and I did not mention physical vote tampering in mine and I am sure many others will not have either, there will be a vast array of points being made in those 80,000+ letters.

This week was massive, how we reacted. It was really important that we recognize that the 2014 vote was not fair nor respectful and that therefore we are not bound for any 'generation'.

I very much like the new edge that Salmond has got when dealing with ar$eholes as well.

The party membership is through the roof and hopefully still rising.

If we had not lost a referendum at the start of it this would actually be an excellent week.

I cannot decide if I prefer the SNP to annihilate the opposition at the next Scottish elections or go into opposition, both seem perfectly ok with me. It seems no matter how we go we are bound to win at some point. The No banjos on the other hand have got themselves in a massive pickle which will only deepen.

If it is eventually officially judged that the vote was unfair (and we all know it was) then I would like to see the official No result struck down. So it is as if we have never had it. Not to provoke an new vote immediately but just to strike it down as a false result. 55% did not vote for No. 55% voted for Devo Max & No. Maybe some legal folk will start to see what challenges can be mounted. No rush...

[Nobby]

The SNP have changed positions on things, not 5 days before the country goes to the polls though.

If you think a political party changing a policy outwith an election period, is in anyway equatable to what the Westminster parties did last week, then you're deluded. [/quote

The snp promised a currency union they absolutely had no right to. Pot meet kettle !!

Politicians react to the way the wind is blowing and if you didn't expect the three amigos to do that maybe you're a tad on the deluded side as we'll

[euan2020]

The SNP have changed positions on things, not 5 days before the country goes to the polls though.

If you think a political party changing a policy outwith an election period, is in anyway equatable to what the Westminster parties did last week, then you're deluded. [/quote

The snp promised a currency union they absolutely had no right to. Pot meet kettle !!

Politicians react to the way the wind is blowing and if you didn't expect the three amigos to do that maybe you're a tad on the deluded side as we'll

you are still missing the timeline - this was all done within week of the poll

Yes activities were outlined months ago

[thplinth]

If you think a political party changing a policy outwith an election period, is in anyway equatable to what the Westminster parties did last week, then you're deluded.

It is not delusion but disingenuousness. It is all he has it seems. Makes any meaningful interaction kind of pointless though I find. Sort of reminds me of that Darling picture someone posted that said "I know you have three Plan B's but what is your plan B?"

[thplinth]

It is not just that they announced something...what they announced was that the third option which they previously banned was now listed again but under a No. That did not just break the Edinburgh Agreement it shat on it.

[Parklife]

The SNP have changed positions on things, not 5 days before the country goes to the polls though.

If you think a political party changing a policy outwith an election period, is in anyway equatable to what the Westminster parties did last week, then you're deluded. [/quote

The snp promised a currency union they absolutely had no right to. Pot meet kettle !!

Politicians react to the way the wind is blowing and if you didn't expect the three amigos to do that maybe you're a tad on the deluded side as we'll

SNP outlined their proposal and intention to have a currency union months and months ago. Again, nothing like moving the goalposts to a position they'd already rejected (westminster parties on Devo-Max) just 5 days before the vote.

[mariokempes56]

Has anyone got a list of what these "new powers" are in any case?

x-ray vision and extra-choccy-smarties

[Rossy]

Andrew Marr...cheerleader in chief for the Cringers......turned round on Sunday in his programme and said ...'but Gordon Brown is just a backbench MP. What power does he have to make promises' ?

Sums it up really. Pity he didn't come out with that a week ago, but hey ho.

[neilly71]

Dog licencing.

The power to increase the cost of a TV licence by 45p.

Special 'Wig Tax' for Donald Trump.

Power over 3/5 of 1% of a tenth of the VAT rate.

I would laugh but i suspect its not too far from the truth.

[rasputin]

Just been told that the membership is now over 60,000.

[exile]

"New powers" = The same powers they announced in March (Labour) and other times for the Tories and LibDems.

The Daily Record front page came from Gordon Brown "guaranteeing new powers" 5 days before the referendum. The other papers had similar front pages.

Now, while technically they weren't announcing any new powers, as it was simply "guaranteeing" the Scots would get one of the parties proposals for extended devolution, what do you think the calculated effect of those headlines was?

This goes back to the problem of having the entire media arrayed against a 'Yes' vote - nobody in the mainstream was actually questioning any of this, and saying "hang on a minute - this is absolute bollocks and has no chance of being passed by Westminster" or even "hang on a minute - these 'new powers' are absolutely useless and can only result in the Scottish Parliament having to raise taxes simply to stand still". No, the mainstream media didn't give a badger about the whole 'journalism' thing - why bother when you can flog papers by simply repeating what Gordon flipping Brown has ranted about.

I agree. The 'vow' and timetable are probably sufficiently weaselly worded that official terms they don't count as a new 'offer' parachuted in at the last minute, but can only refer to the earlier in the year devo lite options. So this probably gets the No campaign/parties off the hook.

It was the media who gratefully grasped and spun the idea it was 'Devo Max' on its way. And they can't be got at... can they?

So although there's a feeling of 'we wuz robbed' it's more like a case of a dodgy last minute penalty - 'that's football' - a wrong that can't be righted after the event - rather than something like an ineligible player that could result in the outcome being declared void.

[Auld_Reekie]

So although there's a feeling of 'we wuz robbed' it's more like a case of a dodgy last minute penalty - 'that's football' - a wrong that can't be righted after the event - rather than something like an ineligible player that could result in the outcome being declared void.

Yep. But that doesn't me we can't capitalise on the dodgy decision and ensure people are suitably motivated. First is to consolidate support for Yes. Second, absolutely hammer Labour as hard as we can. Third, ensure that The Vow is not diluted or forgotten. Fourth, be ready, motivated and organised when the opportunity of a second referendum comes around.

Another referendum will come. It's just a matter of when. We need to ensure all is done between now and then to strengthen our case while weakening the opposition. Im confident our case will be strengthened but it's vitally important that their case and support is weakened over the coming year(s). And that means inflicting serious damage on Labour. Im not so bothered about the Tories but Labour voters are going to be ripe for the picking next time round.

Don't get angry, get even.

[hampden_loon2878]

Timing is everything, concervitive landslide next WM election, followed by a in out referendum in europe, followed by snp majority in holyrood, i think if labour are seriously damaged the chances of a yes vote are massively increased

[weekevie04]

1 in 90 people in Scotland are members of the SNP.

[Rossy]

Scottish Labour know they're vulnerable, and the first thing they'll do is get rid off the utterly hopeless Lamont, and replace her with a 'stronger' figure like Murphy or even Brown.

If the Tories win the next GE I have a feeling that one of the above will step sideways into Scottish Labour.

Scottish Labour may be inept, hopeless, dishonest and tainted, but they won't give up.

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

This goes back to the problem of having the entire media arrayed against a 'Yes' vote - nobody in the mainstream was actually questioning any of this, and saying "hang on a minute - this is absolute bollocks and has no chance of being passed by Westminster" or even "hang on a minute - these 'new powers' are absolutely useless and can only result in the Scottish Parliament having to raise taxes simply to stand still". No, the mainstream media didn't give a badger about the whole 'journalism' thing - why bother when you can flog papers by simply repeating what Gordon flipping Brown has ranted about.

surely it's up to the voter to question it then

i'd heard the quote ' we don't button up the back ' a few times....

[thplinth]

1 in 90 people in Scotland are members of the SNP.

Nice stat.