The Brexit Thread

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, kumnio said:

You really think that thick yanks understand what’s going on. They like his attitude towards Israel, yet are proud of being anti-semitic. 

I’m sure there are some normal Americans who voted for him, but they are in the minority IMO. 

I watched a Fox report about people in Kentucky losing their health coverage, some terminally ill who had to pay thousands per month, but simply couldn’t afford it. I think it was 3 out of 4, but might have been 4 out of 5, who said they still backed Trump and the Republicans. These people are effectively being killed off, but tribalism means they are happy to continue.

I genuinely believe that Americans are idiots. It wouldn’t happen anywhere else in the western world. 

Trump is like a vampire. He knows where the blood is. He prays on the vulnerably poor by promising to make the US great again creating jobs for the jobless (false hope that wins votes) and appealing to the military-types gushing over them some being ex-servicemen. I have seen his spiel before and it is all done to win votes but the promiises never do materialize and that is before we even start on his racial undertones, his sexism, his sleaziness and under-handed dealings that could still see him impeached.

[kumnio]

32 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Sorry but Obama played the race card endlessly his whole presidency. It is what got the useless prick elected, twice. Is it ok when it is non white people doing it?

I said on the better, sorry, old board that Obama was a poor president. He covered himself by being a great orator, but he was very poor when opened up to questions. 

I don’t think he was racist though, the people of Flint think he doesn’t care about black people either. 

Incidently, I don’t think I’ve called Trump racist, but he certainly appeals to them. In my opinion his issue with not renting to black people in the past is probably just a blunt business decision, based on a couple of bad experiences. 

[ParisInAKilt]

3 minutes ago, kumnio said:

You really think that thick yanks understand what’s going on. They like his attitude towards Israel, yet are proud of being anti-semitic. 

I’m sure there are some normal Americans who voted for him, but they are in the minority IMO. 

I watched a Fox report about people in Kentucky losing their health coverage, some terminally ill who had to pay thousands per month, but simply couldn’t afford it. I think it was 3 out of 4, but might have been 4 out of 5, who said they still backed Trump and the Republicans. These people are effectively being killed off, but tribalism means they are happy to continue.

I genuinely believe that Americans are idiots. It wouldn’t happen anywhere else in the western world. 

Yet if a small % of votes went to Clinton instead, American would have proved how progressive it was. 

I think your belief about Americans says more about you than them. 

[kumnio]

2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Yet if a small % of votes went to Clinton instead, American would have proved how progressive it was. 

I think your belief about Americans says more about you than them. 

Who says Clinton was progressive. She was almost as big a cunt as Trump. 

Id say your decline in becoming a mentalist over the last year says a lot about you as well to be honest. 

[ParisInAKilt]

Just now, kumnio said:

Who says Clinton was progressive. She was almost as big a cunt as Trump. 

Id say your decline in becoming a mentalist over the last year says a lot about you as well to be honest. 

The media and seemingly large parts of society. 

Haha no bother. 

[thplinth]

28 minutes ago, kumnio said:

I said on the better, sorry, old board that Obama was a poor president. He covered himself by being a great orator, but he was very poor when opened up to questions. 

I don’t think he was racist though, the people of Flint think he doesn’t care about black people either. 

Incidently, I don’t think I’ve called Trump racist, but he certainly appeals to them. In my opinion his issue with not renting to black people in the past is probably just a blunt business decision, based on a couple of bad experiences. 

Obama set the tone. Ugly race baiting became a valid political tactic. Trump just happened to be better at it than Clinton. Boo hoo for her and Obama.

I dont have the figures to hand and am too lazy but something like 90%+ of African Americans voted for Obama. How is that crazy stat not indicative of 'blatant racism' while white people voting for Trump (in a much smaller %) is. People vote for who they think is going to stand up for them.  

If you look at the history... the democrats 100% are the party of racism, slaves, jim crow every fucking racist piece of shit part of american history. The republicans are not in comparison. It is amazing listening to this shit today. Under their watch the democrats have mostly destroyed african american societies in the US. Thomas Sowell is good on this.

I am not a republican or right wing. I dont give a fuck if you believe it or not wankbags. But I will say I really don't like the democrats or the left and this has happened over the last 5-10 years. Their current tactics betray their intended methods should they get into power. They are the people you should be worried about not Donald Orange HItler Trump. It is the left who are responsible for the vast majority of the political holocaust of people. 100m+... yet many seem to think it is trendy again.  

[thplinth]

The left opened the racial can of worms with identity politics. Now it is coming back to bite them.

Trump, Farage? You will look back on them with fondness and wish you had been more reasonable.

Edited June 4, 2019 by thplinth

[ParisInAKilt]

5 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Obama set the tone. Ugly race baiting became a valid political tactic. Trump just happened to be better at it than Clinton. Boo hoo for her and Obama.

I dont have the figures to hand and am too lazy but something like 90%+ of African Americans voted for Obama. How is that crazy stat not indicative of 'blatant racism' while white people voting for Trump (in a much smaller %) is. People vote for who they think is going to stand up for them.  

If you look at the history... the democrats 100% are the party of racism, slaves, jim crow every fucking racist piece of shit part of american history. The republicans are not in comparison. It is amazing listening to this shit today. Under their watch the democrats have mostly destroyed african american societies in the US. Thomas Sowell is good on this.

I am not a republican or right wing. I dont give a fuck if you believe it or not wankbags. But I will say I really don't like the democrats or the left and this has happened over the last 5-10 years. Their current tactics betray their intended methods should they get into power. They are the people you should be worried about not Donald Orange HItler Trump. It is the left who are responsible for the vast majority of the political holocaust of people. 100m+... yet many seem to think it is trendy again.  

You’re wasting your time 

You could rattle off all the crimes of Obama, Clinton and the Democrats, they’ll pause and then go aye but Trump is a racist and sexist. 

[kumnio]

12 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Obama set the tone. Ugly race baiting became a valid political tactic. Trump just happened to be better at it than Clinton. Boo hoo for her and Obama.

I dont have the figures to hand and am too lazy but something like 90%+ of African Americans voted for Obama. How is that crazy stat not indicative of 'blatant racism' while white people voting for Trump (in a much smaller %) is. People vote for who they think is going to stand up for them.  

If you look at the history... the democrats 100% are the party of racism, slaves, jim crow every fucking racist piece of shit part of american history. The republicans are not in comparison. It is amazing listening to this shit today. Under their watch the democrats have mostly destroyed african american societies in the US. Thomas Sowell is good on this.

I am not a republican or right wing. I dont give a fuck if you believe it or not wankbags. But I will say I really don't like the democrats or the left and this has happened over the last 5-10 years. Their current tactics betray their intended methods should they get into power. They are the people you should be worried about not Donald Orange HItler Trump. It is the left who are responsible for the vast majority of the political holocaust of people. 100m+... yet many seem to think it is trendy again.  

Of course the history of the democratic party is mired by all of that, but it is history. I dont think Ive ever defended them, Obama, Clinton etc, but in comparison with todays Republican party, the Democrats are the lesser of two evils.

[kumnio]

9 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

You’re wasting your time 

You could rattle off all the crimes of Obama, Clinton and the Democrats, they’ll pause and then go aye but Trump is a racist and sexist. 

You seem to have developed this them/us mentality over the last year. Its really boring and tedious, you used to be a good guy, but something has happened sadly. Get over yourself.

Youre the exact example that you cry about.

[Eisegerwind]

21 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Obama set the tone. Ugly race baiting became a valid political tactic. Trump just happened to be better at it than Clinton. Boo hoo for her and Obama.

I dont have the figures to hand and am too lazy but something like 90%+ of African Americans voted for Obama. How is that crazy stat not indicative of 'blatant racism' while white people voting for Trump (in a much smaller %) is. People vote for who they think is going to stand up for them.  

If you look at the history... the democrats 100% are the party of racism, slaves, jim crow every fucking racist piece of shit part of american history. The republicans are not in comparison. It is amazing listening to this shit today. Under their watch the democrats have mostly destroyed african american societies in the US. Thomas Sowell is good on this.

I am not a republican or right wing. I dont give a fuck if you believe it or not wankbags. But I will say I really don't like the democrats or the left and this has happened over the last 5-10 years. Their current tactics betray their intended methods should they get into power. They are the people you should be worried about not Donald Orange HItler Trump. It is the left who are responsible for the vast majority of the political holocaust of people. 100m+... yet many seem to think it is trendy again.  

FFS, just did. Poor fuckers over there haven't got much of a choice. What a fucked up country.

[ParisInAKilt]

6 minutes ago, kumnio said:

You seem to have developed this them/us mentality over the last year. Its really boring and tedious, you used to be a good guy, but something has happened sadly. Get over yourself.

Youre the exact example that you cry about.

I don’t think the them/us accusation fits when I’d like to think I’m equally critical of both sides. 

I’m not crying about anything. 

Haha I’m just expressing my opinion, like everyone else, if the fact it’s a different opinion makes me tedious, boring or whatever then so be it. 

[thplinth]

7 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Of course the history of the democratic party is mired by all of that, but it is history. I dont think Ive ever defended them, Obama, Clinton etc, but in comparison with todays Republican party, the Democrats are the lesser of two evils.

Sorry I am replying to you and making general points at the same time, gets  a bit confusing. 

On this though I think you are very wrong. 

The worst president team ever was George Bush jnr and Cheney. Those two were uncapped evil... Obama friendly with them?

[Toepoke]

29 minutes ago, kumnio said:

 you used to be a good guy, but something has happened sadly.

He moved to Aussie

[kumnio]

2 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Sorry I am replying to you and making general points at the same time, gets  a bit confusing. 

On this though I think you are very wrong. 

The worst president team ever was George Bush jnr and Cheney. Those two were uncapped evil... Obama friendly with them?

In my adultish lifetime, I can only recall Bush Snr, Clinton, Bush Jnr, Obama and now Trump.

Id say the first two did the best jobs, Bush Jnr was the worst, with Obama and Trump, in that order in 3rd and 4th.

Obama is very friendly with Bush Jnr as you know. I dont think Bush Jnr was an evil person, but he surrounded himself with plenty of them, and was lead down a dark alley too easily. 

The American left and right seem to have developed an absolute utter hatred of each other since the turn of the century. While Labour and Tory have always been political opponents, I dont think we have been anywhere near as extreme as the Americans, although Brexit seems to have increased tensions, but its not as simple as left v right, theres chasms and idioms everywhere, and no one has a clue how to solve it. 

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, thplinth said:

What policies do they have now that you would describe as particularly nationalist? Nationalism is enjoying a renaissance in Europe due to widespread dissatisfaction with the EU and the mad direction it has taken. The SNP are so completely disconnected from this wave of unrest it makes me wonder what they are actually offering. It seems to me they are constantly tacking left of England to appeal to voters rather than selling independence to voters. They do not want to escape England to be independent they want to escape England to be left of England. Independence and what it really entails is not so important it seems. EU membership is like the SNP’s little blue security blanket. They carry it about to make the required leap feel better but really you’d be better off far less reliant on it.

 

I don't think of the SNP as a "nationalist" party either. Despite what the MSM keep trying to tell us the "N" in SNP does not stand for "nationalist". 

The people who founded the SNP did a lot of good things. The naming of the party was not one of them. 

By the time Scotland becomes independent (if it ever happens) we will have already left the EU. Well you would think so anyway, but who knows the way things are going at Westminster. The decision then will be whether we should try to rejoin or not. That will be a whole new debate.

I'm not a great fan of trying to classify things as right or left wing. I prefer to look at individual policies on their own merit. I think the SNP, in general, try to do the same. I don't think they are trying to be left wing, they are just trying to do what they think is right. Sometimes that means they do things which they think is the right way to win votes but not always. For example their policies on alcohol were never going to win votes but they did it anyway.

 

 

[thplinth]

41 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I don't think of the SNP as a "nationalist" party either. Despite what the MSM keep trying to tell us the "N" in SNP does not stand for "nationalist". 

The people who founded the SNP did a lot of good things. The naming of the party was not one of them. 

By the time Scotland becomes independent (if it ever happens) we will have already left the EU. Well you would think so anyway, but who knows the way things are going at Westminster. The decision then will be whether we should try to rejoin or not. That will be a whole new debate.

I'm not a great fan of trying to classify things as right or left wing. I prefer to look at individual policies on their own merit. I think the SNP, in general, try to do the same. I don't think they are trying to be left wing, they are just trying to do what they think is right. Sometimes that means they do things which they think is the right way to win votes but not always. For example their policies on alcohol were never going to win votes but they did it anyway.

 

 

Hey man, that is quite a statement. Scottish and Party are non political words. National is the politics that makes it an identifiable party.

[thplinth]

55 minutes ago, kumnio said:

In my adultish lifetime, I can only recall Bush Snr, Clinton, Bush Jnr, Obama and now Trump.

Id say the first two did the best jobs, Bush Jnr was the worst, with Obama and Trump, in that order in 3rd and 4th.

Obama is very friendly with Bush Jnr as you know. I dont think Bush Jnr was an evil person, but he surrounded himself with plenty of them, and was lead down a dark alley too easily. 

The American left and right seem to have developed an absolute utter hatred of each other since the turn of the century. While Labour and Tory have always been political opponents, I dont think we have been anywhere near as extreme as the Americans, although Brexit seems to have increased tensions, but its not as simple as left v right, theres chasms and idioms everywhere, and no one has a clue how to solve it. 

The Reagan era is the only time I think is comparable to the Trump era in terms of weird UK biased media blanket negative coverage. I wish I could go back and view all that with my older eyes...

I'd love to know why the BBC sets its stall out against certain US leaders while crawling up the arsehole of others. Do they have meetings to decide this stuff. Why is the president of the USA seen similar to Farrage? Are they frightened of Trump... that he will indirectly ignite a true independence movement in he UK and not a fake SNP style one in Scotland? Ok I was being a bit provocative there but you can see where I am going... Farage could pull the independence rug from under the SNP's feet.

[Caledonian Craig]

I wonder how Brexiteers feel now at the growing prospect of trading with Trump. The privatisation of the NHS is on the agenda whilst chlorinated chicken will be on the menu and he also has his eyes on the trade name of whisky. And they felt the EU were stifling them? You ain't seen nothing yet.

[ParisInAKilt]

19 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I wonder how Brexiteers feel now at the growing prospect of trading with Trump. The privatisation of the NHS is on the agenda whilst chlorinated chicken will be on the menu and he also has his eyes on the trade name of whisky. And they felt the EU were stifling them? You ain't seen nothing yet.

Sounds like scaremongering up there with the Eu army 

[Caledonian Craig]

45 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Sounds like scaremongering up there with the Eu army 

Oh no not on the same level. The EU army has no evidence to it whereas Trump has said before about the NHS privatisation himself. A US trade minister was on the Andrew Marr show being questioned and he did nothing to deny chlorinated chicken rumours.

[ParisInAKilt]

5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Oh no not on the same level. The EU army has no evidence to it whereas Trump has said before about the NHS privatisation himself. A US trade minister was on the Andrew Marr show being questioned and he did nothing to deny chlorinated chicken rumours.

Even if it is true, that’s the joys and failings of democracy, a government doing something you disagree with isn’t an argument against perceived independence, same thing could apply to Scotland and SNP policy 

[Ally Bongo]

51 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Sounds like scaremongering up there with the Eu army 

Next you'll be telling us you have had enough of experts ...

If we are not in the EU and relying on a trade deal with the USA (a better deal than we have now) then what happens if the USA state no access to our NHS then no deal ?

Are you relying on Trump or any US negotiator to generously allow that concession - remembering we were still paying them for World War II up until 2006  ?

3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Oh no not on the same level. The EU army has no evidence to it whereas Trump has said before about the NHS privatisation himself. A US trade minister was on the Andrew Marr show being questioned and he did nothing to deny chlorinated chicken rumours.

Was that not Woody Johnson - owner of the NY Jets and ambassador to the UK ?

But yes - he confirmed it 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

5 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Even if it is true, that’s the joys and failings of democracy, a government doing something you disagree with isn’t an argument against perceived independence, same thing could apply to Scotland and SNP policy 

A government signing trade deals that includes dodgy food stuff such as chlorinated chicken/genetically-modified stuff and under-handed attempts to involve itself in privatising the NHS in place of deals that involved none of that? No brainer really.

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Caledonian Craig

[ParisInAKilt]

18 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

A government signing trade deals that includes dodgy food stuff such as chlorinated chicken/genetically-modified stuff and under-handed attempts to involve itself in privatising the NHS in place of deals that involved none of that? No brainer really.

 

Aye not something I’d be voting for either.