jailender Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The point about 360000 English having a vote is irrelevant. There are several tens of thousands people of various nationalities living in Scotland who also could vote,(and a lot did), but nothing has been said about them. A lot of English folk I know living up here did vote yes, but that doesn't mean it was replicated everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 It was rigged cos people like me couldn't vote...a Scot who was forced to move abroad tae work cos I couldn't make ends meet at hame. That is the thing that has me beat...out of the 20 old Aberdeen school friends of which 17+ voted No easily (I'll give some the benefit of the doubt) everyone of them bar two has had to leave Scotland to get a good job. Do they ever ask why everyone has to leave? No they see it as more evidence that we can't go it alone. Our population growth is poor because the best of every generation leaves. That is how you go from 33% of Great Britain's population to 8.3% in 307 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Recycled material that has been proven to be a misinterpretation of the counters actions. There's two problems with conspiracy theories: 1) They are in most cases a complete load of nonsense 2) The fact that almost all of them are a complete load of tosh doesn't mean that they never happen For my part I think there are much more obvious reasons why there was a victory for the No campaign which can be explained without reference to such theories. Unless there is very unambiguous and solid evidence for vote rigging it just deflects from real analysis of why 55% of the vote went for No. If we are to win independece then we need to look at the real causes why the referendum was lost and not spurious rumours. OK where has it been proven? Looks pretty damning to me. Christ if we got 45% despite it being rigged then what is the real score? Edited September 23, 2014 by Third Lanark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The point about 360000 English having a vote is irrelevant. There are several tens of thousands people of various nationalities living in Scotland who also could vote,(and a lot did), but nothing has been said about them. A lot of English folk I know living up here did vote yes, but that doesn't mean it was replicated everywhere. One of the No campaign's dirtiest tricks was to try and persuade Eastern European migrants that they might be deported if a Yes was returned. Anecdotally, it had some impact. My constituency, Glasgow Anniesland, is home to quite a large concentration of asylum seekers and it returned a slenderer Yes vote than other parts of Glasgow. However, the constituency also contains some fairly affluent middle-class areas, which, as we know, tended to lean towards No. According to this article well over 30% of people born outside Scotland voted Yes, while 'native' Scots were evenly split. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/why-second-scottish-independence-referendum-may-happen-sooner-090845847.html#Woe2ZQ2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstevie007 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 OK where has it been proven? Looks pretty damning to me. Christ if we got 45% despite it being rigged then what is the real score? The Chief Counting Officer made a statement (google it) explaining at least 3 of the 'dodgy' videos, and the explanation was perfectly plausible. Can we leave this alone and get on with the important issues of regrouping and giving Labour a skelping at the very next opportunity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 That is the thing that has me beat...out of the 20 old Aberdeen school friends of which 17+ voted No easily (I'll give some the benefit of the doubt) everyone of them bar two has had to leave Scotland to get a good job. Do they ever ask why everyone has to leave? No they see it as more evidence that we can't go it alone. Our population growth is poor because the best of every generation leaves. That is how you go from 33% of Great Britain's population to 8.3% in 307 years. Too true. It is sad that many folk in Scotland just accept emigration as an inevitability. This is quite an interesting article: http://statsireland.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/post01.html?spref=fb It shows that between 1961 and 2013 the Republic of Ireland's population rose by 60% while Scotland's rose by less than 3%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I have posted on here already, i stay in a small village beside fraserburgh and a no voting freind who was at the count put on that my village had lost to no by 4 votes at 12.30 am, i havr 2 problems, there are only about 20 no voting people that i know in the village (580 votes cast) and 2 i though info was not allowed to be put out before the final result... I am trying to get info to confirm it is a no vote in my village as it would be very strange if it was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 It shows that between 1961 and 2013 the Republic of Ireland's population rose by 60% while Scotland's rose by less than 3%. That's the rhythm method for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 That's the rhythm method for you... That is possibly a factor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 http://thebutterflyrebellion.org/2014/09/23/the-sabotage-of-scotlands-democracy/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 http://thebutterflyrebellion.org/2014/09/23/the-sabotage-of-scotlands-democracy/ The part about no one here believing official Russian observers is not believable IMHO. The Shetland thing however very much is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The part about no one here believing official Russian observers is not believable IMHO. The Shetland thing however very much is. There's another one going about on twitter about ballot boxes being destroyed and video evidence of it exists Im holding my breath Others are ballot boxes leaving the polling stations unlocked and/or the polling attendants not being allowed to travel to the count destination with them .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 There's another one going about on twitter about ballot boxes being destroyed and video evidence of it exists Im holding my breath Others are ballot boxes leaving the polling stations unlocked and/or the polling attendants not being allowed to travel to the count destination with them .... The controls over voter fraud were extremely weak. Was it deliberate or accidental? Well you make your own mind up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwta2007.com Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Listen please stop this. The vote was not rigged - I got up at 6:30 to supervise my local polling station. I then went to Ingliston to supervise the count. We got beat - I knew at 9:15pm we were beat because the turnout in my area, composed of posh people and old people, was already 96%. It was nearly 100% by closing time. We scared them and they voted in much bigger numbers than the poor areas. Spot on. At 0650hrs there was a queue at our Aberdeen polling station. I left at 2200hrs. Those queuing were senior citizens and well-heeled types. It was the pattern throughout the day. They all looked like they just licked pi$h aff a thistle. No eye contact. Nae smiles. Just determination tae get in there and make sure we lost. We knew from No activists in Aberdeenshire that they were well aware that the schemes in oor toons and cities were Yes and therefore the Tory kvntz ensured the working class vote was to be cancelled oot = they need nae lessons in GOTV. It was appalling how many of them heeded their call to stop the working classes winning. My council ward is Libdem. However, they were there supporting the local tory call. I despise Libdems even more now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) I dont think that it is wrong to assume that on the day of the vote more people voted Yes than No but obviously not by a huge margin. This was the impression given by those that were at the polling stations and on social media. I struggled to therefore understand why the head of YouGov would put his reputation on the line before even half an hour had passed when the polls closed and state that he was 99% sure that No had won. The only reason he could do this was if the almost 800,000 postal votes had been sampled - remember that No won by 400,000 votes. It might be naive but if the postal votes were untampered and they showed a clear majority for No (say 70-30 or maybe even more) then there would have been no requirement to have any major tamporing or rigging of the ballot box votes - not that there were a few minor cases. As most postal votes would have been from pensioners this would go hand in hand with the demographic results where over 70% of those aged 65 and above voted No So it all makes more sense ..maybe Edited September 23, 2014 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I dont think that it is wrong to assume that on the day of the vote more people voted Yes than No but obviously not by a huge margin. This was the impression given by those that were at the polling stations and on social media. I struggled to therefore understand why the head of YouGov would put his reputation on the line before even half an hour had passed when the polls closed and state that he was 99% sure that No had won. The only reason he could do this was if the almost 800,000 postal votes had been sampled - remember that No won by 400,000 votes. It might be naive but if the postal votes were untampered and they showed a clear majority for No (say 70-30 or maybe even more) then there would have been no requirement to have any major tamporing or rigging of the ballot box votes - not that there were a few minor cases. As most postal votes would have been from pensioners this would go hand in hand with the demographic results where over 70% of those aged 65 and above voted No If it was 70% No in postal votes, then we lost by around 320,000 votes. On the day, it would've been 51% No; 49% Yes. It was very close on the day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (ps Hi to Ally Bongo, very nice to meet you. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyDenoon Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 We need to accept the result. We do not need to accept the outcome. The fight goes on. It is a matter of when, not if. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) (ps Hi to Ally Bongo, very nice to meet you. ) You too Plinthy and i did miss you We have something in common now Edited September 23, 2014 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 If it was 70% No in postal votes, then we lost by around 320,000 votes. On the day, it would've been 51% No; 49% Yes. It was very close on the day... Well to be pendantic maybe the postal votes were even more weighted towards No - would explain prediction before 10.30pm ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 You too Plinthy and i did miss you We have something in common now You are one of my favourite posters on here now. (Crazy world eh ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 You are one of my favourite posters on here now. (Crazy world eh ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 MOSCOW, September 19 (RIA Novosti) - Russian observers think that Westminster put significant pressure on Scots during the independencereferendum on September 18. "According to what our observers at the polling offices tell us, there were more Yes votes during the vote count. Scotland found itself under immense pressure… Those on the UK side campaigning for a No vote resorted to every violation imaginable," Georgy Fyodorov, the head of the Association for the protection of electoral rights "Civil control," told RIA Novosti on Friday. Igor Morozov, a member of the Council of the Federation Committee for Foreign Affairs, said that the results were influenced by "Westminster propaganda." http://en.ria.ru/world/20140919/193097294/Russian-Observers-Say-Westminter-Put-Pressure-on-Scots-on.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Scottish referendum vote-rigging claims spark calls for recount Tens of thousands sign petitions wanting recount or fresh vote based on videos that purport to show evidence of electoral fraud http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/22/scottish-referendum-vote-rigging-claims-recount-petitions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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