Next Scotland Manager ?

[stevenmcn]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

His managerial career doesn't rip up any trees for me. I know people here  disagree but there you go.

Unfortunately we're very unlikely to have any candidates who have a career that "rips up trees". Although, in saying in that, I'd be surprised if John Hughes, Malky MacKay, Scot Gemmill and Walter Smith were the best we could attract.

[Caledonian Craig]

51 minutes ago, stevenmcn said:

Unfortunately we're very unlikely to have any candidates who have a career that "rips up trees". Although, in saying in that, I'd be surprised if John Hughes, Malky MacKay, Scot Gemmill and Walter Smith were the best we could attract.

Okay I will put it another way. Mackay has a worse managerial record at club record than Strachan had at international level. So if Strachan didn't cut I see no way that Mackay can. 

[Jim Beem]

If it’s Mackay or Smith I’ll not be back for the forseeable. Sick of funding these useless cunts with zero thought or vision. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Jim Beem

[scotlad]

7 hours ago, andyD said:

Depressing to see Mackay back in the running.

I'm really worried that this time we will make a properly bad appointment, and that will knock out half the international careers of a lot of the young promising players we have. While Strachan didn't get us over the line, we were left in pretty good shape.. this was an opportunity to push on and now it feels like we're just going to slide backwards.

 

Strachan was no great Scotland manager but he was nowhere near as bad as some people on here make out. Granted, he made some mistakes and presided over some undeniably poor results but 12 wins from 26 competitive matches is a decent record.  Both Craig Levein and George Burley only won 3 competitive games each. 

There are some genuine managerial duds with their names in the frame at the moment. I share your concern that we could find ourselves facing a return to the truly dismal Burley/Levein era. 

[davew]

11 hours ago, scotlad said:

Strachan was no great Scotland manager but he was nowhere near as bad as some people on here make out. Granted, he made some mistakes and presided over some undeniably poor results but 12 wins from 26 competitive matches is a decent record.  Both Craig Levein and George Burley only won 3 competitive games each. 

There are some genuine managerial duds with their names in the frame at the moment. I share your concern that we could find ourselves facing a return to the truly dismal Burley/Levein era. 

Totally agree with this. The list of names in the frame makes for depressing reading.

Smith
McLeish
Mackay
Gemmill
Caldwell
Clarke
Mccall
 

[Third Lanark]

Whatever folk think of Walter, will you please stop discounting him because 'he walked out on us'. A more acceptable reason would be that he has been too long away from things. McLeish walked out on us for Birmingham (!); Tommy Docherty walked out on us for Man U - any manager will walk out on us for a top club job. Fact.  MON would have walked for a good job if he had been a success with us. 

[slasher]

We're putting the cart before the horse here anyway. There's no way a manager should be appointed before the chief executive. It seems to me the sudden rush is down to the current power vacuum and some of the committee being keen to get their choice in now. Call it an old pals act if you like. There's no reason MacKay can't take the team again next month and at least let the new CE drive the decision making process.

[davew]

18 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Whatever folk think of Walter, will you please stop discounting him because 'he walked out on us'. A more acceptable reason would be that he has been too long away from things. McLeish walked out on us for Birmingham (!); Tommy Docherty walked out on us for Man U - any manager will walk out on us for a top club job. Fact.  MON would have walked for a good job if he had been a success with us. 

Even discounting the fact that he walked out on us mid-campaign (something McLeish and Docherty didn't do), he's been out of the game for years, and even when he was in his prime, he wasn't good enough.

[drew]

59 minutes ago, davew said:

Totally agree with this. The list of names in the frame makes for depressing reading.

Smith
McLeish
Mackay
Gemmill
Caldwell
Clarke
Mccall
 

I wouldn't say Smith or McLeish are depressing. Questionable as they've been out of the game for a while.

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

14 hours ago, Jim Beem said:

If it’s Mackay or Smith I’ll not be back for the forseeable. Sick of funding these useless cunts with zero thought or vision. 

Are you insane.  Walter smith has no thought or vision???  He is one of the greatest Scottish managers of all time.  That's a fact.  Maybe only Stein and Ferguson are above him.

Nine titles in a row against first strong Hearts and Aberdeen sides then a rejuvenated celtic.  He took Rangers to within a goal of the Champions League final.  And no it doesn't matter it happened 25 years ago because the league champions from each country were much stronger then, rather than all the elite players being at just 10 clubs like now.

He was up against epl champs, won home and away, no vision!!!!   Up against a Marseille side that were probably the 2nd strongest side in the world behind Milan and found a way to compete with them.

The thing about football managers is if they are good they stay good, can anyone possibly think because Walter is in his 60's (not old these days) he doesn't still have a great football brain.

[vanderark14]

12 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

Are you insane.  Walter smith has no thought or vision???  He is one of the greatest Scottish managers of all time.  That's a fact.  Maybe only Stein and Ferguson are above him.

Nine titles in a row against first strong Hearts and Aberdeen sides then a rejuvenated celtic.  He took Rangers to within a goal of the Champions League final.  And no it doesn't matter it happened 25 years ago because the league champions from each country were much stronger then, rather than all the elite players being at just 10 clubs like now.

He was up against epl champs, won home and away, no vision!!!!   Up against a Marseille side that were probably the 2nd strongest side in the world behind Milan and found a way to compete with them.

The thing about football managers is if they are good they stay good, can anyone possibly think because Walter is in his 60's (not old these days) he doesn't still have a great football brain.

1. its not a fact at all, its an opinion.  My opinion is he isn't fit to lace Stein or Ferguson's shoes/trainers.

2. Revisionist bull shit, Nine titles in a row - correct but against opposition who couldn't get near him in terms of budget and resources. Didn't celtic almost go bust during the 9 in a row era? They go their act together and stopped ten, thats it.

 

 

[Jim Beem]

19 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

Are you insane.  Walter smith has no thought or vision???  He is one of the greatest Scottish managers of all time.  That's a fact.  Maybe only Stein and Ferguson are above him.

Nine titles in a row against first strong Hearts and Aberdeen sides then a rejuvenated celtic.  He took Rangers to within a goal of the Champions League final.  And no it doesn't matter it happened 25 years ago because the league champions from each country were much stronger then, rather than all the elite players being at just 10 clubs like now.

He was up against epl champs, won home and away, no vision!!!!   Up against a Marseille side that were probably the 2nd strongest side in the world behind Milan and found a way to compete with them.

The thing about football managers is if they are good they stay good, can anyone possibly think because Walter is in his 60's (not old these days) he doesn't still have a great football brain.

😂😂

Jim Traynor back with a bang. 👍

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

2 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

1. its not a fact at all, its an opinion.  My opinion is he isn't fit to lace Stein or Ferguson's shoes/trainers.

2. Revisionist bull shit, Nine titles in a row - correct but against opposition who couldn't get near him in terms of budget and resources. Didn't celtic almost go bust during the 9 in a row era? They go their act together and stopped ten, thats it.

 

 

Couldn't get near him in budget or resources.  Yet he beat Leeds, Brugge and CSKA and drew with Marseille who all had bigger budgets?

When in charge of Scotland, beat France and drew with Italy in 06 qualifiers with a team who were worse than what we will have for the nations League.

Don't get why so many are against Smith but want some average foreign manager, ie Bilic or Prandelli.  Crazy.

[wanderer]

29 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

Are you insane.  Walter smith has no thought or vision???  He is one of the greatest Scottish managers of all time.  That's a fact.  Maybe only Stein and Ferguson are above him.

Nine titles in a row against first strong Hearts and Aberdeen sides then a rejuvenated celtic.  He took Rangers to within a goal of the Champions League final.  And no it doesn't matter it happened 25 years ago because the league champions from each country were much stronger then, rather than all the elite players being at just 10 clubs like now.

He was up against epl champs, won home and away, no vision!!!!   Up against a Marseille side that were probably the 2nd strongest side in the world behind Milan and found a way to compete with them.

The thing about football managers is if they are good they stay good, can anyone possibly think because Walter is in his 60's (not old these days) he doesn't still have a great football brain.

To be a bit pedantic.... for the first few years of his time at Rangers, Celtic were on their knee's (while Rangers were signing guys like Pieter Huistra, Mark Hateley, Mykhaylychenko etc.... Celtic were making signings like Willie Falconer and Pat McGinlay (and anyone else they could pick up from the cash in the biscuit tin).... while teams like Hearts, Aberdeen and Motherwell could put up a good challenge up to end of March-ish time, Rangers strength in depths would get them across the finnish like not long after.

Also the Champions League was very different, as the semi-finals were VERY different (basically it was two leagues, then two group winners went though.... and bar the Leeds play-off match and the two Marseille games and one of the games v Brugge, v CSKA Moscow they were awful, and was those two games which cost them (and this was just after the fall of Communism, so all the best Russian players were heading for the wealthy leagues of Europe at the time)

Did they not get knocked out by CSKA Sofia or Slavia Prague the following season? Then AIK Athens the following season?

Edited February 8, 2018 by wanderer

[Toepoke]

Charley says...

20 minutes ago, wanderer said:

Mykhaylychenko etc....

 

 

[vanderark14]

39 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

Couldn't get near him in budget or resources.  Yet he beat Leeds, Brugge and CSKA and drew with Marseille who all had bigger budgets?

When in charge of Scotland, beat France and drew with Italy in 06 qualifiers with a team who were worse than what we will have for the nations League.

Don't get why so many are against Smith but want some average foreign manager, ie Bilic or Prandelli.  Crazy.

I was referring to the rest of the scottish league when talking of resources, as the wanderer says, the CL was a very different competition back then.

When in charge of Sotland he did beat france and draw with Italy but he also had some shite results against belarus, the home match was depressingly bad.  

I never said I wanted a foreign manager and I also don't think Smith is a terrible manager but he isn't in the same league as those you mentioned.

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

33 minutes ago, wanderer said:

To be a bit pedantic.... for the first few years of his time at Rangers, Celtic were on their knee's (while Rangers were signing guys like Pieter Huistra, Mark Hateley, Mykhaylychenko etc.... Celtic were making signings like Willie Falconer and Pat McGinlay (and anyone else they could pick up from the cash in the biscuit tin).... while teams like Hearts, Aberdeen and Motherwell could put up a good challenge up to end of March-ish time, Rangers strength in depths would get them across the finnish like not long after.

Also the Champions League was very different, as the semi-finals were VERY different (basically it was two leagues, then two group winners went though.... and bar the Leeds play-off match and the two Marseille games and one of the games v Brugge, v CSKA Moscow they were awful, and was those two games which cost them (and this was just after the fall of Communism, so all the best Russian players were heading for the wealthy leagues of Europe at the time)

Did they not get knocked out by CSKA Sofia or Slavia Prague the following season? Then AIK Athens the following season?

Well I watched those games as a kid and them seemed to play well especially towards ends of games (superior fitness?) but time may have rosetinted my view in the fact no Scottish team including the national team has got anywhere near as close to such a level again.

However, this was the pinnacle of the European game and even if they were awful (not sure as strong as that) it was a remarkable achievement.

Still feel out of all the candidates mentioned, Walter Smith is by far the best manager.  All the others seem to be either very inexperienced or very average club managers. 

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

2 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I was referring to the rest of the scottish league when talking of resources, as the wanderer says, the CL was a very different competition back then.

When in charge of Sotland he did beat france and draw with Italy but he also had some shite results against belarus, the home match was depressingly bad.  

I never said I wanted a foreign manager and I also don't think Smith is a terrible manager but he isn't in the same league as those you mentioned.

Ok vandervark.  Agree the Belarus home game was depressingly bad, just as my hopes were rising.  I think it was Hleb who ran the show from midfield that day and we were second best.

However, in the home game against france we did create a lot and took the game to them reasonably well, and this was after the Belarus game, maybe walter had time to work on the team?

Whereas loved the away win against france under McLeish but we were completely dominated in that game and managed to hold out.   Remember the picture in L'equipe the next day was a huge caveman with a kilt on and a big club carrying an unconscious effeminate Frenchman in his hand.

 

Point being, feel with the young upcoming team for the nations with big walter in charge tatically and I think players will run through a brick wall for him, we could see him leading us out at the wc final in Doha in 2022.  Can just see walter leading out the troops at the coca nike amazon stadium with the lion rampant flying.  Oooch getting a bit ahead of myself.  Ach we're Scottish we've got to dream right!

[wanderer]

3 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

Well I watched those games as a kid and them seemed to play well especially towards ends of games (superior fitness?) but time may have rosetinted my view in the fact no Scottish team including the national team has got anywhere near as close to such a level again.

However, this was the pinnacle of the European game and even if they were awful (not sure as strong as that) it was a remarkable achievement.

Still feel out of all the candidates mentioned, Walter Smith is by far the best manager.  All the others seem to be either very inexperienced or very average club managers. 

While a great achievements, Rangers achievement on that European "run".... has kind of grown arms and legs to become mythical.

The way people talk today it was a case of beat Leeds, then a plucky performance against Marseilles (who went on to win it).... with a kind of vindication that Rangers should have been in the final as Marseille were caught ref bribing in the French league not long after).... with the other games a foot note.

Was the pinnacle of the European season at at time when the new format was in its infancy and European football was a MUCH smaller place to be in......

Smith was a good manger (no denying that) and was the best option for the job in 2005.... but in 2018 after being retired for 6/7 years, no he is not.....

[wanderer]

3 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

Ok vandervark.  Agree the Belarus home game was depressingly bad, just as my hopes were rising.  I think it was Hleb who ran the show from midfield that day and we were second best.

Belarus were nothing special in either game, and Hleb was not what I was expecting.

In Minsk McCulloch took a early knock and was clearly crocked, yet Smith never bothered to change things (even Barry Ferguson was looking on at the sidelines in disgust at every time the ball went out and the subs board was not going up to get McCulloch changed).... and the game in Glasgow he had players like Thompson, Riordan and Lee Miller on the bench, and the only sub he made the WHOLE game was McFadden (who was in a kind of limbo with Scotland at the time, as Smith clearly did not rate him) for McCulloch with about 15 minutes to go.

[vanderark14]

I also remember the france home game being us with backs against the wall for most of it

[davew]

1 hour ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

Are you insane.  Walter smith has no thought or vision???  He is one of the greatest Scottish managers of all time.  That's a fact. 

I'll give you a fact - he put out a team with 5 centre-halfs against Belarus.

Pressley Weir Webster Dailly and Caldwell

That's not the kind of vision I want in the next Scotland manager.

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

Nine titles in a row - correct but against opposition who couldn't get near him in terms of budget and resources. Didn't celtic almost go bust during the 9 in a row era? They go their act together and stopped ten, thats it.

Ok but doesn't this show that walter's teams can beat the big boys, France06, but also bully the smaller teams.

35 minutes ago, wanderer said:

Was the pinnacle of the European season at at time when the new format was in its infancy and European football was a MUCH smaller place to be in......

Smith was a good manger (no denying that) and was the best option for the job in 2005.... but in 2018 after being retired for 6/7 years, no he is not.....

Just asking because I don't get.  Why does it matter that he's been retired for 6.5 years?  He still attends games and seems to be in regular contact with most of Scottish football's main players.  The younger managers probably call him for advice.  Also the Scotland job is the pinnacle of the game, would it not be a good thing to have an elder statesman of the game in charge?

[scotlad]

4 hours ago, davew said:

Totally agree with this. The list of names in the frame makes for depressing reading.

Smith
McLeish
Mackay
Gemmill
Caldwell
Clarke
Mccall
 

Don't forget Graham Alexander and John Hughes. From that list I'd consider Clarke, McLeish, Smith and Mackay, in that order. The others just shouldn't be in consideration. 

[vanderark14]

10 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

Ok but doesn't this show that walter's teams can beat the big boys, France06, but also bully the smaller teams.

Just asking because I don't get.  Why does it matter that he's been retired for 6.5 years?  He still attends games and seems to be in regular contact with most of Scottish football's main players.  The younger managers probably call him for advice.  Also the Scotland job is the pinnacle of the game, would it not be a good thing to have an elder statesman of the game in charge?

Rangers bullied the rest because he could go and buy his way out of trouble, thats not the case with an international manager. He proved to be semi competent as a scotland manager. What he did at rangers is irrelevant for me because he had a huge advantage when there.