EU Referendum

[aaid]

8 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Is it racist to want your railways and energy companies to be owned by this country ?

It's only UK governments that don't allow public ownership of railways and energy companies.  Abellio which of course runs Scotrail amongst other franchises us owned by the Dutch national rail company and EDF is owned by the French state. 

[Rossy]

20 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Is it racist to not want the German banks to control Europe ?

Is it racist to object to the way EU treated the Greeks ?

Is it racist to object to the misery the EU project is bringing down on the people of Spain, Portugal and Italy etc ?

Britain has very little manufacturing left and everything is tendered out abroad

Is it racist to want your railways and energy companies to be owned by this country ?

No, it isn't. Nobody has said that because you want out of the EU, you're a racist.

Is the Leave campaign using racism to try and gain votes ? I would say, that yes, it is.

 

[girvanTA]

6 minutes ago, Rossy said:

No, it isn't. Nobody has said that because you want out of the EU, you're a racist.

Is the Leave campaign using racism to try and gain votes ? I would say, that yes, it is.

 

Can you actually give us a shred of evidence to support the claim?

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, girvanTA said:

Can you actually give us a shred of evidence to support the claim?

[Rossy]

1 minute ago, girvanTA said:

Can you actually give us a shred of evidence to support the claim?

I'll give you that disgusting poster, and I'll give you Farage's ridiculous interview on the Andrew Marr show last Sunday, when he got tied in knots about blood-testing any foreigner wishing to come into the UK to see what illnesses they have.

That's 2 specific answers off the top of my head. I could also point out that the general tone of the Leave campaign is deliberately designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator, and uses oblique racism as it's main crutch. 

[thplinth]

Immigration is a big topic because when Labour and Blair got elected it was ramped up to completely unsustainable levels.

This latest year is the (edit second) biggest ever with a net 330,000 coming in. 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36382199

And these numbers are very likely suppressed with the number of folk being much higher.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36271390

Keep going with the 'let's smear everyone who flags it up as a problem as a racist' tactics. Then when these folk finally say fukk it and actually start voting for real right wing parties them you will have no one to blame but yourselves. You dont allow the debate on immigration to even exist so hell mend you when you get the consequences of that. It will not be today but it is on its way big time. You can see it all over Europe and it is down to you twats no one else.

Edited June 20, 2016 by thplinth

[TDYER63]

6 hours ago, wheres the pies said:

you reckon leave will win by the margin you are quoting the financial markets would disagree the pound has surged ahead today kicking €1.30 to the pound last week it was down to €1.25 to the pound  so it's a big remain from me 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gbp/usd up 6 cents since Thursday is an even bigger indication that the markets see us staying in the Uk. A brexit scenario would have a much bigger negative impact on gbp/usd than gbp/eur as the euro would also be under a lot of pressure if the Uk left the EU , thereby resticting  the weakness of gbp against the euro to some degree .  However the fact sterling has moved higher against the Usd is a massive signal that the financial markets believe we are staying in.

Not saying the markets are always right of course . I would still look to the bookies first ..

[TDYER63]

3 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Gbp/usd up 6 cents since Thursday is an even bigger indication that the markets see us staying in the

6 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Gbp/usd up 6 cents since Thursday is an even bigger indication that the markets see us staying in the Uk. A brexit scenario would have a much bigger negative impact on gbp/usd than gbp/eur as the euro would also be under a lot of pressure if the Uk left the EU , thereby resticting  the weakness of gbp against the euro to some degree .  However the fact sterling has moved higher against the Usd is a massive signal that the financial markets believe we are staying in.

Not saying the markets are always right of course . I would still look to the bookies first ..

Should say EU of course. 

[girvanTA]

23 minutes ago, Rossy said:

I'll give you that disgusting poster, and I'll give you Farage's ridiculous interview on the Andrew Marr show last Sunday, when he got tied in knots about blood-testing any foreigner wishing to come into the UK to see what illnesses they have.

That's 2 specific answers off the top of my head. I could also point out that the general tone of the Leave campaign is deliberately designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator, and uses oblique racism as it's main crutch. 

What race did he offend with the poster? The poster itself is a refection on what is happening in the world today. Its not racist, perhaps tasteless to the bleeding heart liberals but racist no.

Blood testing foreigners:- To limit the transfer of zoonoses, pathogens  blood borne disease is a bad thing? 

 

[Mox]

21 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Immigration is a big topic because when Labour and Blair got elected it was ramped up to completely unsustainable levels.

This latest year is the (edit second) biggest ever with a net 330,000 coming in. 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36382199

And these numbers are very likely suppressed with the number of folk being much higher.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36271390

Keep going with the 'let's smear everyone who flags it up as a problem as a racist' tactics. Then when these folk finally say fukk it and actually start voting for real right wing parties them you will have no one to blame but yourselves. You dont allow the debate on immigration to even exist so hell mend you when you get the consequences of that. It will not be today but it is on its way big time. You can see it all over Europe and it is down to you twats no one else.

Deary me.

[thorbotnic]

6 minutes ago, girvanTA said:

What race did he offend with the poster? The poster itself is a refection on what is happening in the world today. Its not racist, perhaps tasteless to the bleeding heart liberals but racist no.

Blood testing foreigners:- To limit the transfer of zoonoses, pathogens  blood borne disease is a bad thing? 

 

How exactly would foreign humans transmit zoonoses to us indigenous Brits, then?

I would say that the poster isn't racist but deliberately sets out to deceive. The column of refugees arriving in Slovenia has literally nothing to do with the EU.

[thorbotnic]

30 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Immigration is a big topic because when Labour and Blair got elected it was ramped up to completely unsustainable levels.

This latest year is the (edit second) biggest ever with a net 330,000 coming in. 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36382199

And these numbers are very likely suppressed with the number of folk being much higher.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36271390

Keep going with the 'let's smear everyone who flags it up as a problem as a racist' tactics. Then when these folk finally say fukk it and actually start voting for real right wing parties them you will have no one to blame but yourselves. You dont allow the debate on immigration to even exist so hell mend you when you get the consequences of that. It will not be today but it is on its way big time. You can see it all over Europe and it is down to you twats no one else.

What's a "sustainable level"? Unemployment is low; EU migrants work. It's a supply and demand situation: there isn't a 'fixed pie' of jobs and resources to go around. Also declining birth rates need to be offset. 

[exile]

JK Rowling on 'monsters and villains of the EU ref'

http://mobile.jkrowling.com/en_GB/timeline/on-monsters-villains-and-the-EU-referendum

Interesting all the lefty and 'liberal' voices on the Remain side bemoaning the ugly side of Boris Johnston, Nigel Farage and co,

- and saying do we really want to be in a country ruled by these people

- yet those are the very same people who urged us to vote No on the same side as Boris and Nigel....

[aaid]

4 minutes ago, thorbotnic said:

What's a "sustainable level"? Unemployment is low; EU migrants work. It's a supply and demand situation: there isn't a 'fixed pie' of jobs and resources to go around. Also declining birth rates need to be offset. 

These are great points.  The final one hits the nail on the head for me.  Given the following facts, people are living longer, by 2032 the average life expectancy for men and women will be 82 and 86 respectively. The U.K. birth rate is actually up in the last few years - interestingly there is evidence that this is linked to young immigrant families having children - but it is not increasing at the same rate at which people are getting older.   Given the way in which the whole social welfare system in the UK is predicated on people who are working paying the taxes that provide the pensions, benefits and health services for those that don't.   It's clear to me that the only way in which that gap can be closed is by immigration.  

[exile]

1 minute ago, aaid said:

These are great points.  The final one hits the nail on the head for me.  Given the following facts, people are living longer, by 2032 the average life expectancy for men and women will be 82 and 86 respectively. The U.K. birth rate is actually up in the last few years - interestingly there is evidence that this is linked to young immigrant families having children - but it is not increasing at the same rate at which people are getting older.   Given the way in which the whole social welfare system in the UK is predicated on people who are working paying the taxes that provide the pensions, benefits and health services for those that don't.   It's clear to me that the only way in which that gap can be closed is by immigration.  

Another question is: how many expats - many elderly - would return from France and Spain in the event of Brexit?

[thplinth]

Immigration is being used as a political weapon. This has been revealed for a long time now and discussed on here a few times.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

 

[aaid]

Just now, exile said:

Another question is: how many expats - many elderly - would return from France and Spain in the event of Brexit?

Another great point.  Probably not that many as the same rights that means that no EU immigrant in the UK at the point of Brexit would apply to the ex-pats in the Costas.  What you would probably find though would be that it would mean in future less people would retire to Spain, France, etc. as it would get a lot more difficult.  The other point is that - in the main - its older people who make more use of public services so it would be an even bigger strain on public services. 

[exile]

What would Brexit mean for devolution?

http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/

throws cold water on the idea that repatriated powers from Brussels would likely fall to Holyrood

(they would be more or less subject to what Westminster chooses to devolve like anything else)

[thplinth]

 

 

[Alan]

16 minutes ago, aaid said:

These are great points.  The final one hits the nail on the head for me.  Given the following facts, people are living longer, by 2032 the average life expectancy for men and women will be 82 and 86 respectively. The U.K. birth rate is actually up in the last few years - interestingly there is evidence that this is linked to young immigrant families having children - but it is not increasing at the same rate at which people are getting older.   Given the way in which the whole social welfare system in the UK is predicated on people who are working paying the taxes that provide the pensions, benefits and health services for those that don't.   It's clear to me that the only way in which that gap can be closed is by immigration.  

That's a big reason for me. I'm in my late thirties and shite it at how we can afford the care of my parents generation. Majority have not saved enough. I'm staggered how many have 2nd homes and have a better standard of living than myself. Political parties are all spend, spend, spend and Scotland has older and sicker population than rUK.

[girvanTA]

30 minutes ago, thorbotnic said:

How exactly would foreign humans transmit zoonoses to us indigenous Brits, then?

I would say that the poster isn't racist but deliberately sets out to deceive. The column of refugees arriving in Slovenia has literally nothing to do with the EU.

You do know zoonoses can be transfered from animals to humans and humans can easily transfer and carry the ebola virus and other diseases.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, thorbotnic said:

How exactly would foreign humans transmit zoonoses to us indigenous Brits, then?

 

Maybe he thinks these foreigners are non-human animals?

Edited June 20, 2016 by Orraloon

[thorbotnic]

1 hour ago, girvanTA said:

You do know zoonoses can be transfered from animals to humans and humans can easily transfer and carry the ebola virus and other diseases.

Right. So during the recent biggest Ebola outbreak in history, how many UK cases resulted from our dangerously lax, non-blood-testing immigration system? The UK gas been rabies free for ages - but we let in humans from countries with endemic rabies all of the time! What a nonsense.

[aaid]

2 hours ago, girvanTA said:

What race did he offend with the poster? The poster itself is a refection on what is happening in the world today. Its not racist, perhaps tasteless to the bleeding heart liberals but racist no.

Blood testing foreigners:- To limit the transfer of zoonoses, pathogens  blood borne disease is a bad thing? 

 

You probably don't think any of this is racist either.  BTW, this is the official Vote Leave campaign  not Farage's nut job band  

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/20/vote-leave-board-member-quits-over-anti-muslim-retweets?CMP=share_btn_tw

[girvanTA]

16 minutes ago, thorbotnic said:

Right. So during the recent biggest Ebola outbreak in history, how many UK cases resulted from our dangerously lax, non-blood-testing immigration system? The UK gas been rabies free for ages - but we let in humans from countries with endemic rabies all of the time! What a nonsense.

Yes you are absolutely correct regarding ebola in the uk, however that is only one part of why we should use blood testing what about:

• assess your general state of health
• check if you have an infection
• see how well certain organs, such as the liver and kidneys, are working
• screen for certain genetic conditions