Gordon Brown's Plan

[ParisInAKilt]

aye ok. The put downs may appeal the rabble but do little else.

It's not a put down. Don't be so sensitive. If you enter a debate, expect to be called out on talking shite which IMO you regularly do.

Edited September 9, 2014 by ParisInAKilt

[MacWalka]

I have been pretty consistent on this. Try to see beyond flag waving for once.

DevoMax is not on the cards, increased responsibilities for Holyrood to collect tax (Ie. more administrative costs) in order to cut the block grant. Therefore, even though Scotland pays a higher %age of the UK tax take than its population %age, it will have to raise taxes even more to keep the same spending levels in Scotland and pay for increased bureaucracy.

Now, if a proper DevoMax was on the cards from the off, full income tax control, crown estates, oil revenues, borrowing powers, welfare control, corporation tax etc etc then I probably would have voted for that. However, after everything that has happened up until now over the past few years, I want out. I don't trust any part Westminster of UK media anymore and I want a new system of governance and oversight.

They had their chance to be progressive, to offer federalism, to offer DevoMax, to provide local power to communities. They failed and now they know they've failed they're trying to scramble any remaining votes together with false promises, fear and intimidation.

[EddardStark]

It's not a put down. Don't be so sensitive. If you enter a debate, expect to be called out on talking shite which IMO you regularly do.

ok what bit is shite. Increased powers will appeal those soft yes and don't knows who wanted real change but not full independence. Cant you see that? Edited September 9, 2014 by EddardStark

[EddardStark]

DevoMax is not on the cards, increased responsibilities for Holyrood to collect tax (Ie. more administrative costs) in order to cut the block grant. Therefore, even though Scotland pays a higher %age of the UK tax take than its population %age, it will have to raise taxes even more to keep the same spending levels in Scotland and pay for increased bureaucracy.

Now, if a proper DevoMax was on the cards from the off, full income tax control, crown estates, oil revenues, borrowing powers, welfare control, corporation tax etc etc then I probably would have voted for that. However, after everything that has happened up until now over the past few years, I want out. I don't trust any part Westminster of UK media anymore and I want a new system of governance and oversight.

They had their chance to be progressive, to offer federalism, to offer DevoMax, to provide local power to communities. They failed and now they know they've failed they're trying to scramble any remaining votes together with false promises, fear and intimidation.

I think you are correct. It will come down to trust. I also think thus will be a starting point towards federalism.

[ParisInAKilt]

ok what bit is shite. Increased powers will appeal those soft yes voters who wanted real change but not full independence. Cant you see that?

The bit about Devo max being on the table.

2 years they had to propose powers! And now the polls are close, people have actually voted and there's 9 days to go, more powers are mentioned but nil proposals. Pathetic and embarrassing.

If voters fall for it then they deserve to be screwed over again

[EddardStark]

The bit about Devo max being on the table.

2 flipping years they had to propose powers! And now the polls are close, people have actually voted and there's 9 days to go, more powers are mentioned but nil proposals. Pathetic and embarrassing.

If voters fall for it then they deserve to be screwed over again

the question was agreed by both govts. The Labour Party had no say.

[ParisInAKilt]

the question was agreed by both govts. The Labour Party had no say.

Good. They aren't in government.

Cameron didn't want Devo max. Better together should respect that.

[fishcumnock]

A kid on promise is never binding ed , anyway if it was written down as fact the lords can still veto any promises

if it harms the country , england.

[brant grebner]

According to Dougie Alexander last night, the whole Gordon Brown bit was actually Johann Lamont's idea.

He referred to Lamont as "my boss" when Gavin Essler was quizzing him about it.

And nothing tangible was offered - Gordon Brown proposed a timetable for agreement in the event of a no vote.

Almost worth his while in cancelling whatever corporate speaking gig he was due to get another wedge for.

Cos Brown's an inspirational speaker isn't he?

We all remember the high esteem he was held in when he was in office

If I was running an investment bank in Dubai, I can't think of anyone more stunning than Brown to turn up and speak to my staff.

It must be his motivational talks that led to him getting over £2 million quid in corporate talks last year.

Certainly nothing to do with his sphere of influence within the Westminster establishment, which would cease to exist in the event of a Yes vote.

I'm sure that the likes of AMEX and failed investment fund AlphaMetrix will be still be queuing up to give him 30 grand plus flights, hotels and scran to motivate their staff when Scotland becomes independent and he gets pulled out the trough.

[MacWalka]

I think you are correct. It will come down to trust. I also think thus will be a starting point towards federalism.

Funnily enough, I don't, if for whatever reason we vote No next week, we'll get these 'powers' and in say 10 years time Scotland will be pissed off at how these 'powers' have led us into a sorry state. Then we'll see another independence campaign that will win decisively. Not to mention if we vote No, I also think that England will quite honestly be sick of us and there will be a rise in English independence rhetoric over the next decade.

I also think federalism won't work unless you break England into smaller governing regions and that any idea of federalism should be voted on by the whole country, not just Scotland and not put into place by politicians.

[Orraloon]

ok what bit is shite. Increased powers will appeal those soft yes and don't knows who wanted real change but not full independence. Cant you see that?

That is what they are hoping for. They are playing the "Too Stupid" card for one last time. It is up to us to make sure that enough folk see through their lies and deceit.

[fetish]

For those undecideds that think Gordon Brown is an 11th hour knight in shining armour........http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-list-of-nothing/#more-61469

[tomtscotland]

both parties agreed to take it off. A mistake .Labour where not involved. This new initative is their idea.

These "new" powers are designed to keep the gullible in their box ...so close the lid, shut your eyes and have a wee sleep to September 19th.

[Tartan Tarantula]

Is there any reaction to this on twitter from anyone who is undecided (Im guessing there will be)? Hopefully people are clever enough to see what a crock of s**** this is, but I have my doubts sometimes.....

[ParisInAKilt]

Only spoke to a few mates who are definitely soft yes's and they are saying the same things we are. Desperate and too little too late.

[Auld_Reekie]

I have concerns that there is a small but sizeable chunk of the electorate who might be persuaded to consider this, especially when you consider the massive wall of publicity they are being handed. It's being roundly panned on Twitter at least but Im not convinced that demographic is rich pickings for Yes now.

[Tartan Tarantula]

If ever there was a time that Murdoch came out for Yes, this would be it. The "wall of publicity" as AR put it is enough to sway some folk. But even as Brian Taylor puts it (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29132375), theres nothing new here - although you wouldnt know it looking at the coverage thus far.

[Gaz]

DevoMax should have been on the table. Now it is. Lets the voters decide.The stays Quo was never really a goet.

what! its nothing of the sort , not devo max at all ! stop telling lies

[Auld_Reekie]

There's still a good chance the media could turn on this - I get the impression they are biting their tongue but even this is pushing them to the limits. Cameron, Milliband and Clegg will be under huge scrutiny tomorrow and it's difficult to see how they'll win voters over, but there's a good chance one or all three could make a serious error. I notice some journalists claiming they won't be allowed to ask questions of them so I think there will come a point where the press might lose patience.

The good thing is I hope the Yes campaign still have one or two things in their locker. The last two days have been an unexpected bonus entirely of the No campaign's making. Yes just need to keep putting the hard graft in and focus on it's own game.

[Return of Yermaw]

If Ed's desperate posting to try and convince us that this is the clincher is anything to go by, Bitter Together will implode before next Thursday........

[tartandon]

I do fear that some of the less informed or less engaged members of the electorate will soak in all the Westminster propaganda tomorrow and vote No.

I wish I had more faith in the people who live in this country, but I think they have been brainwashed over the years to believe what they see and hear in the mainstream media.

[Hessen]

On BBC news they asked two people in the street if they believed it....No and No!

[Armchair Bob]

I have spoken to some hard Nos today who think this offer is devo max... unfortunately they are the only ones who think this

[phart]

Mind when Gordon Brown was unelected and wasn't fit for purpose?

[Orraloon]

On BBC news they asked two people in the street if they believed it....No and No!

And they probably asked about 200 folk before they got 2 answers which were polite enough to be broadcast.