ShedTA Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, Parklife said: Surely the "side letters" indemnify the individuals? Absolutely as it is the same club. This is where it all comes unstuck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Parklife said: Surely the "side letters" indemnify the individuals? Under PAYE it is the company who is legally responsible for deducting tax at source and sending it to HMRC. If they do not do that they get screwed but I think the person who gets the money is still ultimately responsible for the tax owed and they would then just go after them. The individual may be able to sue old RFC (not new as it is nothing to do with them) but good luck with that, even if you won you'd just be another creditor... Edited July 5, 2017 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, thplinth said: One of the people most hit by this is a Mr Dave King who was owed 20m by old RFC. Please tell me that is correct?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Parklife said: Please tell me that is correct?!? I think he was the biggest creditor...until now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Just now, thplinth said: Under PAYE it is the company who legally responsible for deducting tax at source and sending it to HMRC. If they do not do that they get screwed but I think the person who gets the money is still ultimately responsible for the tax owed and they would then just go after them. The individual may be able to sue RFC but good luck with that, even if you won you'd just be another creditor... So they wont be able to touch the new club for this - as it is not the same entity. As we are all aware that incorporated entity has been liquidated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
min Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, thplinth said: I think he was the biggest creditor...until now. Looking at the list of creditors in the latest BDO report: HMRC - £94.4m Ticketus - £27.2m Directors (including King) - £20.0m Shareholders - £10.9m Debenture Holders - £7.7m and so on to a total of circa £170m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Old Rangers is not liquidated yet. Who do you think was appealing this case? It is kind of sad what they did. They renamed the old club incorporated in 1899 to "RFC 2012" and swapped the old name onto Sevco incorporated in 2012 in a switcheroo maneuver. Now the old club probably will be liquidated as this case was likely all that remained to be decided before BDO clean her out and cast what remains to the wind. And that will be that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, min said: Looking at the list of creditors in the latest BDO report: HMRC - £94.4m Ticketus - £27.2m Directors (including King) - £20.0m Shareholders - £10.9m Debenture Holders - £7.7m and so on to a total of circa £170m Ahh Ticketus of course... who could forget them. Sore one lads. Never trust a man with bulgy eyes is my advice. That 20m is all King I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
min Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, thplinth said: Ahh Ticketus of course... who could forget them. Sore one lads. Never trust a man with bulgy eyes is my advice. That 20m is all King I believe. Ticketus is an interesting one. Whatever they don't get via the liquidation process (which at 5p in the pound will be most of what they're owed), they have already been through the courts and won the case against Whyte personally for the right to call in various guarantees that he gave. Not sure what they'll actually get from him at the end of the day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 What a 24 hours! Schadenfreude indeed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandydunn Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Will the grim reaper be knocking on the gates again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Just now, dandydunn said: Will the grim reaper be knocking on the gates again? Not for as long as they have people willing to put in soft loans. But if that stops then yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo87 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 On Orange away top will solve any cash flow issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool78 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 11 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said: Nope. To be honest I'm inured to these sorts of results from the last 4 years or so. You're still the biggest bed wetter around though. ? Hurting much more today out of Europe before the season starts and confirmed cheats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I haven't paid much attention to any of the tax cases, can anyone say what will actually happen next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, kumnio said: I haven't paid much attention to any of the tax cases, can anyone say what will actually happen next? Absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, Glasgowmancity said: Absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things That's quite disappointing. Thought it might have been good for a wee crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, kumnio said: That's quite disappointing. Thought it might have been good for a wee crisis. The SFA/SPFL will come under significant pressure to strip the old Rangers of titles won during the EBT period. Doncaster and Regan have been shown to be charlatans and liars, who should be hung by their own previous words, now that EBT's have been ruled unlawful. Rangers cheated. No ifs, no buts, no whataboutery. Over a period of 8 years, they cheated. Every single "victory" they gained during this period was assisted by this cheating. Every trophy "win" was gained through the use of players, who were being paid for through an unlawful tax scheme, which enabled Rangers to pay players they otherwise could not have afforded (as per sworn testimony in the Craig Whyte trial from those in charge at Rangers). These are all now undeniable facts, backed by this ruled from the highest court in the land. Rangers FC were cheats. Rangers fans can say that "nothing will happen", "it's nothing to do with us", "it's simply an issue for Oldco/Murray" but that is nonsense. Every trophy between 2000-20008 MUST be expunged from the records. History must be clear that winning through cheating on an industrial scale, is not winning at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Just now, Parklife said: The SFA/SPFL will come under significant pressure to strip the old Rangers of titles won during the EBT period. Doncaster and Regan have been shown to be charlatans and liars, who should be hung by their own previous words, now that EBT's have been ruled unlawful. Rangers cheated. No ifs, no buts, no whataboutery. Over a period of 8 years, they cheated. Every single "victory" they gained during this period was assisted by this cheating. Every trophy "win" was gained through the use of players, who were being paid for through an unlawful tax scheme, which enabled Rangers to pay players they otherwise could not have afforded (as per sworn testimony in the Craig Whyte trial from those in charge at Rangers). These are all now undeniable facts, backed by this ruled from the highest court in the land. Rangers FC were cheats. Rangers fans can say that "nothing will happen", "it's nothing to do with us", "it's simply an issue for Oldco/Murray" but that is nonsense. Every trophy between 2000-20008 MUST be expunged from the records. History must be clear that winning through cheating on an industrial scale, is not winning at all. LNS ruled on the side letters, not the legality of the scheme, there will be no reopening of any case into stripping titles, it has already been decided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, Glasgowmancity said: LNS ruled on the side letters, not the legality of the scheme, Hence why the scheme being illegal changes the dynamic completely. History must show that Rangers FC spent 8 years cheating, every single day and in every single match. I've no doubt that the SFA and SPFL will do all they can to sweep this under the carpet. It is important that Scottish football fans do not allow this to happen. Everyone of us was cheated. Cheated from victories for our sides, cheated from trophy wins and cheated as UK tax payers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 5 minutes ago, Parklife said: Hence why the scheme being illegal changes the dynamic completely. I don't agree with that whether the scheme was illegal or not was not taken into account with the LNS ruling, so nothing has changed in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 They still get to play at Ibrox and pay exhorbitant wages instead of owing 100m. I'd say that's a win for The Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Here's what pisses me off with the Huns. Those cvnts are due a serious fortune to the taxman. Now, any other cvnt in any walk of life would have their assets seized to pay towards it. Why are these cheats continually allowed to financially benefit from the cash that 50 thousand punters bring in each game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 22 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said: They still get to play at Ibrox and pay exhorbitant wages instead of owing 100m. I'd say that's a win for The Rangers. Just noticed you beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Blackpool78 said: Hurting much more today out of Europe before the season starts and confirmed cheats 13 hours ago, Blackpool78 said: Hurting much???? I refer you to my previous response. Still not hurting. But you keep obsessing over it as it seems to keep you happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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