scotlad Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 10 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Looks like a grubby deal between Swinney and Forbes Silly girl She will be making a statement later Disappointing, if true, but depending what the deal is there may be some logic in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 31 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Looks like a grubby deal between Swinney and Forbes Silly girl She will be making a statement later I think it's a wise move for her. This is the wrong time for her to be First Minister. If she is in it for the long haul then her time will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 25 minutes ago, Goozay said: There are distinct problems with what Kate actually says, though. Compare and contrast with Ian Blackford, also a Wee Freer, but when given the opportunity voted at Westminster to legalise same-sex marriage and abortion in Northern Ireland. Even Humza said he “didn’t subscribe” to the view that gay marriage was a sin, as well as saying that same sex marriage is “no more inferior or worth less, than my marriage as a heterosexual person.” When asked if gay marriages or gay relationships is a sin, Forbes ducked the question and said “sin is universal”, as well as saying that if she had the opportunity at Holyrood, she’d vote against gay marriage because of her religion. She even got push back from the Church of Scotland who said that her views didn’t reflect mainstream Christian teaching! That’s totally fine if you’re happy to stay on the fringes of the party, but if Forbes is going to run for leader, she needs to find a better way of explaining how she is going to keep church and state separate. Humza's full of shite though. He practices a faith that forbids women from marrying men from outside that faith, let alone people of the same sex. Gun to his head, there's no chance he'd defend what he claims are his views on the subject, he was simply saying what he knew people wanted to hear. Seemingly he isn't generally very popular amongst other Muslims, most probably because they know he's full of it too. In any case, same-sex marriage isn't a live issue anymore. It's done, it's been decided; it's legal and no one in politics that I know of is proposing banning it anymore than they're talking about banning homosexuality itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Shared : Interesting fact picked up by Alf Baird yesterday with regards to Jon Swinneys briefing in the metropolitan capital the other day. There was no doubt about it - Swinney was at Queen Anne’s Gate - the site of the English imperial Home Office. He made his ‘impromptu’ statement having emerged from the doors of the Resolution Foundation, a Right Wing (default Unionist) ‘think’ tank. No attempt was made to hide that fact – indeed it seemed that they were keen to create those very ‘optics’ – no doubt to reassure their colonial masters. The message that ‘Independence is over’ could not be more brazen – amplified all morning by the BBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 11 hours ago, Hertsscot said: Depends what is meant be equality. Civil partnerships had already been introduced and many people thiught they gave the legal equality and recognition that same sex couples wanted. Many conservative Christians supported their introduction, seeing them as fair and just, whilst nonetheless retaining the belief that marriage by definition was between a man and a woman - which is probably exactly the definition found in every dictionary until about 15 years ago. Separate but equal policy isn't equality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 1 hour ago, Orraloon said: I think it's a wise move for her. This is the wrong time for her to be First Minister. If she is in it for the long haul then her time will come. Exactly. Fortunately she is smarter than social media NPC's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 There will be nothing much left of the SNP to salvage anytime soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 I think I'm for Swinney now. Give him a chance. I don't even think he's boring either. He can putdown quite well and still has fire in the belly. He's only 60. The first thing people think about Forbes is her religion. Poor but that's how it is. I see her as a wee lassie to be honest. I'm probably showing my age. Give her a few years as a deputy would be my choice. I'll back either of them though. I think they're at least brave enough to put their heads above the parapet. Getting the SNP's good policies talked about again is the main driver now. Plus a more positive take on independence than the doom we have been seeing recently. Even if it is out of our hands, what have we got to lose by pointing out we want to unite our people to an undeniable majority? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 1 hour ago, mariokempes said: Shared : Interesting fact picked up by Alf Baird yesterday with regards to Jon Swinneys briefing in the metropolitan capital the other day. There was no doubt about it - Swinney was at Queen Anne’s Gate - the site of the English imperial Home Office. He made his ‘impromptu’ statement having emerged from the doors of the Resolution Foundation, a Right Wing (default Unionist) ‘think’ tank. No attempt was made to hide that fact – indeed it seemed that they were keen to create those very ‘optics’ – no doubt to reassure their colonial masters. The message that ‘Independence is over’ could not be more brazen – amplified all morning by the BBC. Have you got a source for this? I would have thought it would be all over social media. Wouldn't surprise me one little bit tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 9 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said: I think I'm for Swinney now. Give him a chance. I don't even think he's boring either. He can putdown quite well and still has fire in the belly. He's only 60. The first thing people think about Forbes is her religion. Poor but that's how it is. I see her as a wee lassie to be honest. I'm probably showing my age. Give her a few years as a deputy would be my choice. I'll back either of them though. I think they're at least brave enough to put their heads above the parapet. Getting the SNP's good policies talked about again is the main driver now. Plus a more positive take on independence than the doom we have been seeing recently. Even if it is out of our hands, what have we got to lose by pointing out we want to unite our people to an undeniable majority? Against my better judgment I gave Humza a chance . I didn’t vote for him but I accepted he won the contest, even though I had my concerns about how it was conducted. Sadly it ended as I expected. If a deal has been done then I would want to know how it came about and what, if any, pressure has been used . I am not an SNP member who pays a monthly subscription and sits back and does heehaw, I actually get involved. I am at the stage of not knowing if I truly believe independence is their end game, and therefore for everyone’s benefit, I may have to resign my membership. To defend and promote a party you need to believe that the priorities are what you are there for. At least I do. I can still push for independence without being part of a political party. For a while I have thought a separate body may be a better option. I was really disappointed last night at the meeting. Can’t really go into detail but felt it was very dismissive if you didn’t agree with the majority, particularly the more prominent members . On one hand it was ‘everyone has the right to their opinion’ but on the other felt like you are idiot if you didn’t go with the flow . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StirlingEgg Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 1 hour ago, mariokempes said: Shared : Interesting fact picked up by Alf Baird yesterday with regards to Jon Swinneys briefing in the metropolitan capital the other day. There was no doubt about it - Swinney was at Queen Anne’s Gate - the site of the English imperial Home Office. He made his ‘impromptu’ statement having emerged from the doors of the Resolution Foundation, a Right Wing (default Unionist) ‘think’ tank. No attempt was made to hide that fact – indeed it seemed that they were keen to create those very ‘optics’ – no doubt to reassure their colonial masters. The message that ‘Independence is over’ could not be more brazen – amplified all morning by the BBC. Was he not there last Monday as a speaker for an event to mark 25 years of devolution? Mark Drakeford there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said: Against my better judgment I gave Humza a chance . I didn’t vote for him but I accepted he won the contest, even though I had my concerns about how it was conducted. Sadly it ended as I expected. If a deal has been done then I would want to know how it came about and what, if any, pressure has been used . I am not an SNP member who pays a monthly subscription and sits back and does heehaw, I actually get involved. I am at the stage of not knowing if I truly believe independence is their end game, and therefore for everyone’s benefit, I may have to resign my membership. To defend and promote a party you need to believe that the priorities are what you are there for. At least I do. I can still push for independence without being part of a political party. For a while I have thought a separate body may be a better option. I was really disappointed last night at the meeting. Can’t really go into detail but felt it was very dismissive if you didn’t agree with the majority, particularly the more prominent members . On one hand it was ‘everyone has the right to their opinion’ but on the other felt like you are idiot if you didn’t go with the flow . i'd be quite happy to see an election, don't get me wrong. I've got no reason to believe Swinney doesn't want independence and think he's the best option. He would have been the best option if he'd stood in the last election as well, for me. None of them are brilliant in my view, just the best of the choice available. So as well giving them a chance. i'm trying to be positive for a wee change! I've found quite a few SNP members to be quite condescending and get how you feel. They do need to remember the SNP exists because many Scots desire our country's independence, it's not supposed to be a run of the mill party. The cause should be first and foremost. I'm hopeful we'll get back to that, whoever can put a stop to the sniping and bring some positivity, i'm in favour of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Looks like Forbes will only be releasing a statement rather than making a personal appearance Disappointing especially on the day Christian passes away aged 80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Looking like a Swinney/ Forbes ticket for the next election then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 1 minute ago, PapofGlencoe said: I've got no reason to believe Swinney doesn't want independence and think he's the best option. Should listen to what Lloyd Quinan says about him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 8 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Should listen to what Lloyd Quinan says about him What does he actually say though? specifically? Lloyd Quinan was saying the SNP physically corrupted the last leadership election with no evidence. I just don't find the man credible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Bang on the money. "Not only are Forbes’s Christian views on pre-marital sex, abortion, and marriage perfectly mainstream, she has also repeatedly said that while she must follow her conscience, she defends the rights of others to do the same. This is more than can be said for the zealots of the secular religion of social progressivism. Forbes’s critics wrongly assume that, given the opportunity, she would be as intolerant as they are." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 17 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said: i'd be quite happy to see an election, don't get me wrong. I've got no reason to believe Swinney doesn't want independence and think he's the best option. He would have been the best option if he'd stood in the last election as well, for me. None of them are brilliant in my view, just the best of the choice available. So as well giving them a chance. i'm trying to be positive for a wee change! I've found quite a few SNP members to be quite condescending and get how you feel. They do need to remember the SNP exists because many Scots desire our country's independence, it's not supposed to be a run of the mill party. The cause should be first and foremost. I'm hopeful we'll get back to that, whoever can put a stop to the sniping and bring some positivity, i'm in favour of. If I send you a stamped address envelope can you return some of that positivity to me 😁 I agree that there is not one stand out candidate, and I really dont want it to sound like I am out the door because my choice isn’t getting the gig. I would be absolutely up for any combination I felt would get things back on track. I just cannot get beyond the fact JS was on his way out a year ago and now he is back as the leader . This, for me, is not progress, and why the sudden change of heart ? The young family he planned to spend more time with are only a year older. I don’t have all the concerns about him that some others have ( where the bodies are buried ) but at the same time I cannot say he isn’t implicated in any way. However thats not a deal breaker for me as unless someone has seen some absolute proof its all just hearsay. I just don’t think he is up to the job. I don’t think he is cut throat enough to fight the opposition and he hasn’t exactly flourished in his previous roles. Being steady is not a bad thing at all, but you need more than that to be a leader. Nothing , however, would give me greater pleasure than being proven wrong. I think part of the problem with condescending members is that the SNP has never gone through a crisis like this ( at least not when they have been in such a prominent position) and its like people are trying to gloss over things rather than be realistic. They then become defensive. Thats the main problem for me at branch level at least which is where I have most interaction. Hopefully this will be a turning point but I think I will be on the sidelines from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 18 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said: What does he actually say though? specifically? Lloyd Quinan was saying the SNP physically corrupted the last leadership election with no evidence. I just don't find the man credible. All relates to the early 2000s when Swinney was in charge Former SNP MP Campbell Martin wrote a book about it Basically a gradualist/devolutionist and the opposite of the left of centre that he mentioned today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Och Aye Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said: I think I'm for Swinney now. Give him a chance. I don't even think he's boring either. He can putdown quite well and still has fire in the belly. Hopefully people, including guys on here who complain about the 'divide and conquer' tactics of the establishment, will pull together for the main objective. Hopefully Forbes will be a future First Minister/Prime Minister/President of an Independent Scotland in our lifetimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfieMoon Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 I think this is a decent outcome. Swinney has a chance to steady the ship and hopefully bring people together. Kate should be deputy FM and prob Finance again. Get her decent air time in front of the public and let them see her competence and get over this bogey man situation about her religion. She can be geared towards taking over from Swinney as he’s never going to be the man to lead us to Indy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 12 minutes ago, TDYER63 said: I just cannot get beyond the fact JS was on his way out a year ago and now he is back as the leader . This, for me, is not progress, and why the sudden change of heart ? The young family he planned to spend more time with are only a year older. He has had a year off, and had time to realise what a fukin nightmare that is going to be. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 14 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: All relates to the early 2000s when Swinney was in charge Former SNP MP Campbell Martin wrote a book about it Basically a gradualist/devolutionist and the opposite of the left of centre that he mentioned today That depends on where you think the "centre" is nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 13 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said: I think this is a decent outcome. Swinney has a chance to steady the ship and hopefully bring people together. Kate should be deputy FM and prob Finance again. Get her decent air time in front of the public and let them see her competence and get over this bogey man situation about her religion. She can be geared towards taking over from Swinney as he’s never going to be the man to lead us to Indy. She doesn't need two jobs. One is plenty. She should be allowed to choose which job she wants. That will probably be part of the deal. From the outside, it may look like Finance Secretary is the best fit, but that is a huge amount of work. She may decide that that isn't the best job for herself right now. If she does have the vision to eventually lead us to independence then she might decide to invent a slightly different job for herself? 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 1 minute ago, Orraloon said: He has had a year off, and had time to realise what a fukin nightmare that is going to be. 🤣 😂😂 When I seen you had quoted me I thought 🙄 , he is going to shoot me down in flames and tell me to stop greetin. That made me laugh. And is entirely plausible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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