V France thread

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, breeks_mctavish said:

Any of our squad players may need to get called into action for a Euros game against a big team next summer.  Who knows what will unfold. Playing last night helps them know a bit more what it’s all about. We’re about to play in a Euros and a top league in the Nations League. We’re now not going in cold to those games. Maybe we won’t be good enough but better getting the lessons out the way now 

Precisely. I am gobsmacked fans desire a friendly against New Zealand or Qatar to massage egos rather than testing yourselves against the best players in the world - the like of which we will face in the coming two years. 

[Caledonian Craig]

6 minutes ago, BryanBlessed said:

 

McLean scored against Norway, yes but he's not getting anywhere near our strongest starting 11. He's also nearly 32 so he's not going to be getting any better.

McLean was one of our best players last night so I do not see your point. He has already shown he can do a vital job for us if called upon which he could be in the Euros hence why it was very useful him getting a game last night from the start.

[BryanBlessed]

6 minutes ago, breeks_mctavish said:

Any of our squad players may need to get called into action for a Euros game against a big team next summer.  Who knows what will unfold. Playing last night helps them know a bit more what it’s all about. We’re about to play in a Euros and a top league in the Nations League. We’re now not going in cold to those games. Maybe we won’t be good enough but better getting the lessons out the way now 

Perhaps though I doubt either Zander Clark or Liam Kelly will see any game time. And both of them? Highly unlikely.  I actually think Cooper, McLean (and maybe even Taylor) may not make the Euros squad.  

The only two non-first-team players last night whose additon I'd say was beneficial (and I'm not talking about forced changes) were Brown and Souttar. And I admit Brown is only with the benefit of hindsight.

[BryanBlessed]

4 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

McLean was one of our best players last night so I do not see your point. He has already shown he can do a vital job for us if called upon which he could be in the Euros hence why it was very useful him getting a game last night from the start.

We were poor last night in so many areas. I don't think McLean had such a great game compared to others. Our defence is what worries me at the moment.

[Exiled ICT]

2 minutes ago, BryanBlessed said:

Perhaps though I doubt either Zander Clark or Liam Kelly will see any game time. And both of them? Highly unlikely.  I actually think Cooper, McLean (and maybe even Taylor) may not make the Euros squad.  

The only two non-first-team players last night whose additon I'd say was beneficial (and I'm not talking about forced changes) were Brown and Souttar. And I admit Brown is only with the benefit of hindsight.

Keepers aren't rotated in the same way as outfield players generally, but would you want someone to make their debut against a top side in a major tournament? Whilst I have doubts over their quality compared to Gunn and Gordon, still useful to play the keepers last night.

We know what Porteous offers, and offering players such as Cooper, Patterson, McLean more time in our system and tactics is only a benefit. They get used to what is being asked of them, where they should be etc and that can only be a benefit when it comes to the future. The more practice they have in the system the easier it is to slot in when asked. The reason Considine was called up a couple of years ago was because he played a back 3 at Aberdeen and was easier to slot in if needed.

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, BryanBlessed said:

We were poor last night in so many areas. I don't think McLean had such a great game compared to others. Our defence is what worries me at the moment.

You need a reality check.

They had a very strong side out whereas we had made a number of changes. We were not poor considering we were playing one of the best sides in the world and our back-up side had 47% possession which was higher than we managed in Spain or at home to England and had higher pass accuracy too than in those games plus had more shots on goal too. Hardly poor. The area we were poor in was defensively as goals came from crosses and marking was not tight enough but that was a shadow of our defence we normally field but allows Clarke to point out these failings to the less experienced players for them to learn from which you would not get playing minnows.

[duncan II]

I think I disagree with everything Bryan Blessed is saying! 😄

How can it be extremely unlikely that either reserve keeper will be called upon in the finals in the summer? Gunn is not magically immune from injury or, indeed, loss of form.

Every finals participant nation will have a squad, not just a first 11. There's a reason for that. I'd prefer our fringe players were assessed and ready.

[Exiled ICT]

I'd far rather test the defensive attributes of Cooper, Taylor and Patterson against players who pose a challenge than watch them stroke the ball about the back for 90 minutes against a minnow.

No value in that, can do that in training all day long.

I think Clarke is very good at looking at the big picture and knows there is a process and plan between now and the Euros (and beyond) and is working towards that. Yes he wants to win every game, but knows there are different things to look at that are not 100% result focussed to the detriment of other areas.

[BryanBlessed]

1 hour ago, duncan II said:

I think I disagree with everything Bryan Blessed is saying! 😄

How can it be extremely unlikely that either reserve keeper will be called upon in the finals in the summer? Gunn is not magically immune from injury or, indeed, loss of form.

Every finals participant nation will have a squad, not just a first 11. There's a reason for that. I'd prefer our fringe players were assessed and ready.

Actually I said it was highly unlikely that both of them will see game time. It's not even certain that they'll both be in the squad.

 

We must be the only nation that sets up a friendly against arguably the best team in the world to "test ourselves" then sends out squad players. Surely if the reason behind the friendly is to test ourselves, we should be putting out the players who would be most likely to face them in the tournament? That's what we did against England.

 

 

[BryanBlessed]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

You need a reality check.

They had a very strong side out whereas we had made a number of changes. We were not poor considering we were playing one of the best sides in the world and our back-up side had 47% possession which was higher than we managed in Spain or at home to England and had higher pass accuracy too than in those games plus had more shots on goal too. Hardly poor. The area we were poor in was defensively as goals came from crosses and marking was not tight enough but that was a shadow of our defence we normally field but allows Clarke to point out these failings to the less experienced players for them to learn from which you would not get playing minnows.

We were poor in defence (we can agree on that) and the final third. The only area we were OK in was midfield.  And possession statistics can be misleading. Spain had far more possession than us at Hampden but we were still worthy winners. France tend to let you have possession but then punish you.

 

I don't think there is a lot between our centre backs but, for me, Souttar is better than Cooper and Hendry. Although Cooper is left-sided he was playing centrally last night. Again, I'm not convinced Cooper will make the Euros squad.

 

I think perhaps given all the injuries, Clarke saw little point in sending out our best team available but, if everyone had been fit, I think we would have seen a full-strength side.

[Yr Alban]

It probably should be observed that, although our defence was iffy, France’s finishing last night was absolutely top drawer.

[mccaughey85]

I think we missed porteous last night. His performances in this campaign have been impressive and going by his Scotland performances I think he belongs at a higher level than the English championship.

The result wasn't great but we were missing robbo, Tierney, hickey, porteous, gunn, mcginn, mcgregor from the starting line up and a country our size doesn't have strength in depth that we can replace these guys with similar quality.

Also France and mbappe were on fire at times.  They really have insane strength in depth and we can only really try and fluke a result if they are playing well, especially at home.

Jacob brown played well when he came on, maybe deserves another shot in the 2 remaining games. 

[Shaundy]

1 hour ago, Yr Alban said:

It probably should be observed that, although our defence was iffy, France’s finishing last night was absolutely top drawer.

Yeah , they have a not bad attack. The Mbappe boy has a future. 
quite agree that football is very much a squad game . Especially heading into a tournament. 
I do feel we’re at a position where some will be considered unlucky not to make the final squad. 
giving time to those in positions like goalkeeper a chance to experience a game is pivotal. An injury to a keeper would be p crucial and it was good to read how chuffed Kelly and his mate were to represent their national team .

thankfully our head coach has smarts.

[BryanBlessed]

Just watched the highlights. We certainly played better than I thought we had in the stadium.  Jacob Brown looked a level above Adams to be honest and I don't think Adams has done anything recently to justify his selection ahead of Brown or Shankland for that matter.

The marking at for the first goal was shocking though as it was a rather makeshift team, I can kind of understand that.

England and France are miles ahead of the other European teams but I think we could hold our own against most others.  With a good draw and a bit of luck, I think we could make the 1/4s.

[daviebee]

5 hours ago, BryanBlessed said:

Just watched the highlights. We certainly played better than I thought we had in the stadium.  Jacob Brown looked a level above Adams to be honest and I don't think Adams has done anything recently to justify his selection ahead of Brown or Shankland for that matter.

The marking at for the first goal was shocking though as it was a rather makeshift team, I can kind of understand that.

England and France are miles ahead of the other European teams but I think we could hold our own against most others.  With a good draw and a bit of luck, I think we could make the 1/4s.

A man on the post and that goal doesn't happen.  Can't for the life of me understand why any team would set up to defend a corner without one.  Second goal - Mbappe is going to do that to better defenders than Jack Hendry, no disrespect to the guy.  Third - there were about 3 potential penalties at that corner so no complaints!

Another thing to learn from last night is that teams at France's level don't play friendlies.  I had a feeling we were in a wee bit of trouble when I seen their line-up and the atmosphere in the stadium.  No fking about with that lot.  I think we did pretty well under the circumstances and knocked it about pretty well although had it been a qualifier, Ferguson would've been booked under 20 minutes in.  Lost count of the fouls he gave away.

[Tartan blood]

14 hours ago, BryanBlessed said:

Just watched the highlights. We certainly played better than I thought we had in the stadium.  Jacob Brown looked a level above Adams to be honest and I don't think Adams has done anything recently to justify his selection ahead of Brown or Shankland for that matter.

The marking at for the first goal was shocking though as it was a rather makeshift team, I can kind of understand that.

England and France are miles ahead of the other European teams but I think we could hold our own against most others.  With a good draw and a bit of luck, I think we could make the 1/4s.

I've noticed that a lot of the goals Adams scores are when he has lots of time to pick his spot. The Denmark goal being the prime example. But when he has to make snap decisions, he tends to get it wrong. He doesn't have the predatory instinct we need. As much as I would love an all action superstar striker, we could really do with a competent poacher. Adams isn't that. 

Jacob Brown is an EPL player and did extremely well versus France. He's playing at a higher level than both Adams and Dykes. Maybe it's finally time to give him a start. Scotland have far superior players to Luton Town. So he could end up thriving.

[runningtings]

15 hours ago, BryanBlessed said:

England and France are miles ahead of the other European teams but I think we could hold our own against most others.  With a good draw and a bit of luck, I think we could make the 1/4s.

This is the crux of it, these 2 teams are a level above all the rest. I think for spells in possession we looked ok the other night but defensively we got ripped apart by one of the best attacking setups in the world, no shame in that really.

[BryanBlessed]

1 hour ago, Tartan blood said:

I've noticed that a lot of the goals Adams scores are when he has lots of time to pick his spot. The Denmark goal being the prime example. But when he has to make snap decisions, he tends to get it wrong. He doesn't have the predatory instinct we need. As much as I would love an all action superstar striker, we could really do with a competent poacher. Adams isn't that. 

Jacob Brown is an EPL player and did extremely well versus France. He's playing at a higher level than both Adams and Dykes. Maybe it's finally time to give him a start. Scotland have far superior players to Luton Town. So he could end up thriving.

Despite being a (nominal) Hearts fan, I wouldn't mind seeing Shankland moving to an English team with a view to getting back into the squad. I know he's not quite been at it with Hearts but I'm still convinced he's one of our best options. Like you allude to, you can't really on Adams for the half chance.

[Scot1]

38 minutes ago, BryanBlessed said:

Despite being a (nominal) Hearts fan, I wouldn't mind seeing Shankland moving to an English team with a view to getting back into the squad. I know he's not quite been at it with Hearts but I'm still convinced he's one of our best options. Like you allude to, you can't really on Adams for the half chance.

I still think Ross Stewart is our best option up front if he returns from injury fully fit and starts scoring again.

Southampton just paid 8-10 million for him.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Scot1

[BryanBlessed]

6 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

I still think Ross Stewart is our best option up front if he returns from injury fully fit and starts scoring again.

Southampton just paid 8-10 million for him.

I saw him when he was scoring quite a few for Sunderland so hopefully he'll do well for Southampton.

I thought Jacob Brown looked really good against France and he is our only EPL forward (albeit at a team obviously going straight back down)

[Scot1]

4 minutes ago, BryanBlessed said:

I saw him when he was scoring quite a few for Sunderland so hopefully he'll do well for Southampton.

I thought Jacob Brown looked really good against France and he is our only EPL forward (albeit at a team obviously going straight back down)

I think Stewart is better equipped to lead the line, play up front on his own.

He’s a goal scorer, he doesn’t do a great deal outside the box, but he’s very good inside it.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Scot1

[Yr Alban]

53 minutes ago, BryanBlessed said:

Despite being a (nominal) Hearts fan, I wouldn't mind seeing Shankland moving to an English team with a view to getting back into the squad. I know he's not quite been at it with Hearts but I'm still convinced he's one of our best options. Like you allude to, you can't really on Adams for the half chance.

He has been talismanic for Hearts, but he has been off form so far this season. Rumours that Hearts knocked back a bid from a Saudi club, so maybe he is sulking. The issue with Shanks, though, is that he isn’t suited to a lone striker role. He’s a predator all right, but he lacks mobility and needs a partner to feed off. Last season he had Josh Ginnelly and Barrie McKay to pull defences around. Now one has gone and the other is injured. And Scotland tend to play one up front.

[DesiScotsman]

I agree with many on here, if there was a weak spot in the area that we could certainly do with another option - it would be the no.9 striker position. That's not discrediting the work Lyndon Dykes has done in that role. His off the ball work and his never say die attitude is massively appreciated but we could definitley do with a different option in terms of a predatory striker that knows where the back of the net is. Basically a poacher type. If Kevin Nisbet was fit and Lawrence Shankland was on form then, that's two options there that are worth experimenting to see if they can be that answer at this level. Ross Stewart is another but he's coming back from a real longterm nasty injury so we don't know what he will be like post injury. Hopefully still the same player as he was before that horrible injury. I've mentioned it before but Plymouth striker Ryan Hardie is certainly worth a look and I was surprised he was omitted from a call-up despite our options in attack being so thin. He's got 5 goals & 3 assists in 13 games already so far and is the top goalscoring Scottish player in the English Championship. Che Adams doesn't really cut it for me, as fellow poster Tartan Blood mentioned, he is a player that requires a lot of time on the ball to pick his spot as we seen with his recent goals against both Denmark & Armenia. You don't always get that sort of time at this level. His decision making can be alot to be desired with as well. Jacob Brown offered more of a threat in his 25 mins on the pitch than Che Adams did in the hour before. I've been one of his biggest critics but fair play to the lad, he showed some glimpses of what he can offer so definitelty could be a player in there which probabaly has taken a fair while to show he can bring. Possibly just needs a goal for us to do his confidence the world of good and I hope he goes back to Luton and starts playing consistently well and pitching in with a few goals down there too.

Edited October 19, 2023 by DesiScotsman

[Tartan blood]

2 hours ago, BryanBlessed said:

Despite being a (nominal) Hearts fan, I wouldn't mind seeing Shankland moving to an English team with a view to getting back into the squad. I know he's not quite been at it with Hearts but I'm still convinced he's one of our best options. Like you allude to, you can't really on Adams for the half chance.

Now that we have an early indication that we have qualified this time, and a confirmed reduced squad size, I would hope to see a lot of players pushing for moves in January, if playing time is currently hard to come by.

McTominay is the most obvious, though he'll be in our 11 regardless. Turnbull needs to leave Celtic if he has a hope in hell of getting back into the squad. But I think I'll resign myself to assuming he's out of the picture for a while. 

[Tartan blood]

38 minutes ago, DesiScotsman said:

I agree with many on here, if there was a weak spot in the area that we could certainly do with another option - it would be the no.9 striker position. That's not discrediting the work Lyndon Dykes has done in that role. His off the ball work and his never say die attitude is massively appreciated but we could definitley do with a different option in terms of a predatory striker that knows where the back of the net is. Basically a poacher type. If Kevin Nisbet was fit and Lawrence Shankland was on form then, that's two options there that are worth experimenting to see if they can be that answer at this level. Ross Stewart is another but he's coming back from a real longterm nasty injury so we don't know what he will be like post injury. Hopefully still the same player as he was before that horrible injury. I've mentioned it before but Plymouth striker Ryan Hardie is certainly worth a look and I was surprised he was omitted from a call-up despite our options in attack being so thin. He's got 5 goals & 3 assists in 13 games already so far and is the top goalscoring Scottish player in the English Championship. Che Adams doesn't really cut it for me, as fellow poster Tartan Blood mentioned, he is a player that requires a lot of time on the ball to pick his spot as we seen with his recent goals against both Denmark & Armenia. You don't always get that sort of time at this level. His decision making can be alot to be desired with as well. Jacob Brown offered more of a threat in his 25 mins on the pitch than Che Adams did in the hour before. I've been one of his biggest critics but fair play to the lad, he showed some glimpses of what he can offer so definitelty could be a player in there which probabaly has taken a fair while to show he can bring. Possibly just needs a goal for us to do his confidence the world of good and I hope he goes back to Luton and starts playing consistently well and pitching in with a few goals down there too.

Since we have 6 games before the Euros, I'd be happy to try a couple of different strikers up front to experiment.

We know exactly what to expect from Dykes and Adams. Both have their value, and are obviously both going to be in the Finals squad. Maybe we should give 90mins to one or two of Brown, Nisbet, or Stewart. Depending on who Clarke rates the most. 

There are so many competent strikers around the world that would hoover up the chances we create. Seemingly none are Scottish.