Indyref 2 (2)

[aaid]

Just now, PapofGlencoe said:

Like a great many things, I imagine it depends on the circumstances.  I don't have a strong opinion on it, unlike my view above.

Do you think we should lower alcohol consumption to 16? Fags too? 

I think it demonstrates we treat children differently depending on the issue at hand.  I see no reason for it to be flat across the board.  

what is the basis of your question?  You think we should be sending 16 year olds to barracks?  Fair enough if so, I disagree.

I think 18 is the real age of adulthood.  If not even later but don't think it needs everything tied to a specific age.  We're complex animals. 

   

My point is that there are numerous different ages up to the age of 25 where the age of majority applies.   This was actually covered in the debate yesterday with Alex Cole Hamilton pointing out Rachel Hamilton's (no relation) inconsistency in voting for the age of criminal responsibility to be 12 but then making the point that children aren't old enough to know their own minds at 16 in this respect.

 

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Heartily agree. I'm not even sure I agree with her on everything but we need more intellectual bravery.  Half the SNP benches can't even read a scripted question at fmqs.  Bought, paid for or scared.

I don't think the descriptions intellectual can really be used where Ash Regan is concerned - she doesn't strike me as being the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

[PapofGlencoe]

1 minute ago, aaid said:

I don't think the descriptions intellectual can really be used where Ash Regan is concerned - she doesn't strike me as being the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

In the eye of the beholder that.

[aaid]

5 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

In the eye of the beholder that.

I've pretty much always thought that tbf.  Cherry is a sharp cookie on the other hand.

[TDYER63]

35 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Like a great many things, I imagine it depends on the circumstances.  I don't have a strong opinion on it, unlike my view above.

Do you think we should lower alcohol consumption to 16? Fags too? 

I think it demonstrates we treat children differently depending on the issue at hand.  I see no reason for it to be flat across the board.  

what is the basis of your question?  You think we should be sending 16 year olds to barracks?  Fair enough if so, I disagree.

I think 18 is the real age of adulthood.  If not even later but don't think it needs everything tied to a specific age.  We're complex animals. 

   

This is why I mentioned the age disparity in a previous post. There is absolutely no conformity. I personally think 16 is too young for most of the things they are legally allowed to do, but acknowledge there will be some 16 yr olds who are more mature than a 21 yr old, or older. 

I think it should be flat across the board at 18   , but I may be an old fuddy duddy. 

[AlfieMoon]

4 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

This is why I mentioned the age disparity in a previous post. There is absolutely no conformity. I personally think 16 is too young for most of the things they are legally allowed to do, but acknowledge there will be some 16 yr olds who are more mature than a 21 yr old, or older. 

I think it should be flat across the board at 18   , but I may be an old fuddy duddy. 

I think the problem is that the government argument (from Robison) trying to shove this through is that because you can do all these other things from 16, then that makes the decision right.  
 

That is just ridiculous. 
 

The argument should be made on its own merits. 
 

As you have said, some of those other things at 16 - whether it be the army, voting, etc. are also debatable as to whether that is the appropriate bar.  So using them as the reason to tag on to is far from reasoned debate and politics IMO. 

[aaid]

1 minute ago, AlfieMoon said:

I think the problem is that the government argument (from Robison) trying to shove this through is that because you can do all these other things from 16, then that makes the decision right.  
 

That is just ridiculous. 
 

The argument should be made on its own merits. 
 

As you have said, some of those other things at 16 - whether it be the army, voting, etc. are also debatable as to whether that is the appropriate bar.  So using them as the reason to tag on to is far from reasoned debate and politics IMO. 

I don't know the reasons behind this but I'm just going to make a wild assumption and state it as a fact.

[Ally Bongo]

This debate should only really concern Women, Men with cocks that want to be a Woman and Men that want to suck a Woman's cock

Having an opinion on it is one thing but It's interesting the amount of straight men that are losing their shit about it

[TDYER63]

12 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

I think the problem is that the government argument (from Robison) trying to shove this through is that because you can do all these other things from 16, then that makes the decision right.  
 

That is just ridiculous. 
 

The argument should be made on its own merits. 
 

As you have said, some of those other things at 16 - whether it be the army, voting, etc. are also debatable as to whether that is the appropriate bar.  So using them as the reason to tag on to is far from reasoned debate and politics IMO. 

Having different ages really clouds and complicates decision making, but its the law that has made it that way . 

I feel in general the western world is changing and pushing boundaries more and more, not just Scotland. Many of the changes are good but I fear at some point we are going to end up in an episode of Black Mirror. 

Again, probably old fogie mentality. 

 

[TDYER63]

13 minutes ago, aaid said:

I don't know the reasons behind this but I'm just going to make a wild assumption and state it as a fact.

Alfie is one of the most balanced people on here. 

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

15 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

This debate should only really concern Women, Men with cocks that want to be a Woman and Men that want to suck a Woman's cock

Having an opinion on it is one thing but It's interesting the amount of straight men that are losing their shit about it

Women undergoing a Strapadicktimy

[aaid]

8 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Alfie is one of the most balanced people on here. 

During one of the two consultation periods, the government received evidence that 16 was the appropriate age, they received evidence to the contrary.  They didn't just go for 16 because it sounded good.

[mcguffin]

It crossed my mind that the MSPs who voted for this bill (regardless of political party) have opened themselves open to the  "What is a woman?" question so loved by LBC/BBC radio journalists and O-Grade biology examiners.

I guess they can now confidently answer "a person with a gender recognition certificate!" ?

But if so, what does that make the 50% of the Scottish population who are female and most likely won't have such a certificate?  Or will they be encouraged to apply for a certificate too? (I honestly can't get my head around this).

Anyway, rather them than me on the BBC Radio 4's woman's hour.

Edited December 21, 2022 by mcguffin

[daviebee]

1 hour ago, mcguffin said:

It crossed my mind that the MSPs who voted for this bill (regardless of political party) have opened themselves open to the  "What is a woman?" question so loved by LBC/BBC radio journalists and O-Grade biology examiners.

I guess they can now confidently answer "a person with a gender recognition certificate!" ?

But if so, what does that make the 50% of the Scottish population who are female and most likely won't have such a certificate?  Or will they be encouraged to apply for a certificate too? (I honestly can't get my head around this).

Anyway, rather them than me on the BBC Radio 4's woman's hour.

And can you imagine a debate being held in the run-up to this fabled indyref2 with the likes of Patrick Harvie invited on with some Better Together rep?

Presenter: so what is a woman?

Better Together rep: "An adult human female."

Harvie: <insert garbled, biology-denying, total, complete and utter fkin lunacy here>

Watching TV audience: "WTAF?"

Madness.

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

32 minutes ago, daviebee said:

And can you imagine a debate being held in the run-up to this fabled indyref2 with the likes of Patrick Harvie invited on with some Better Together rep?

Presenter: so what is a woman?

Better Together rep: "An adult human female."

Harvie: <insert garbled, biology-denying, total, complete and utter fkin lunacy here>

Watching TV audience: "WTAF?"

Madness.

just wait for the passing of the bill for use of mandatory pronouns ......

more Krankies at christmas than black mirror

 

 

[Dave78]

1 hour ago, daviebee said:

And can you imagine a debate being held in the run-up to this fabled indyref2 with the likes of Patrick Harvie invited on with some Better Together rep?

Presenter: so what is a woman?

Better Together rep: "An adult human female."

Harvie: <insert garbled, biology-denying, total, complete and utter fkin lunacy here>

Watching TV audience: "WTAF?"

Madness.

Aye, the audience will be thinking 'WTAF has this got to do with independence?'.

 

Signed,
A TAMBer in Ireland (an independent former colony of England, where we've had this legislation for years - and zero fucks are given).

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

11 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Aye, the audience will be thinking 'WTAF has this got to do with independence?'.

 

Signed,
A TAMBer in Ireland (an independent former colony of England, where we've had this legislation for years - and zero fucks are given).

I know its only semantics, but bit of a gap between 1707 and 1948 re owner of said colony 

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

17 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Aye, the audience will be thinking 'WTAF has this got to do with independence?'.

 

Signed,
A TAMBer in Ireland (an independent former colony of England, where we've had this legislation for years - and zero fucks are given).

And zero fucks were given on back street coat hanger abortions and priests diddling the choir boys all in recent memory , so hardly the moral high ground

[aaid]

Thread👇

 

[mcguffin]

6 hours ago, Dave78 said:

Aye, the audience will be thinking 'WTAF has this got to do with independence?'.

Yes, fair point. But bearing in mind the next IndyRef looks like it will be as part of a UK General Election, all political issues will be on the table. BBC/LBC and all the rest of them have asked the question in the past (example1, example2).  I would be suprised if they don't ask some variant of the same question in the run up to the next UK General election.  Fair or unfair question, that's the media we currently have. And that media has a big audience.

At least the varous political parties have plenty time to get their answers to the question worked out.

[daviebee]

7 hours ago, Dave78 said:

Aye, the audience will be thinking 'WTAF has this got to do with independence?'.

 

Signed,
A TAMBer in Ireland (an independent former colony of England, where we've had this legislation for years - and zero fucks are given).

You seriously believe that this won't be used as an extra weapon to beat the Yes side over the head with?  The way it'll be presented, people will give a lot more than zero f*cks.

[scotlad]

14 hours ago, aaid said:

I don't think the descriptions intellectual can really be used where Ash Regan is concerned - she doesn't strike me as being the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

Me neither. And as for this "principled" stance she's getting a lot of plaudits for currently, if she was so principled why did she accept a cabinet post when she knew full well that the government were going to introduce, or attempt to introduce, the GRA?

[Malcolm]

12 hours ago, daviebee said:

And can you imagine a debate being held in the run-up to this fabled indyref2 with the likes of Patrick Harvie invited on with some Better Together rep?

Presenter: so what is a woman?

Better Together rep: "An adult human female."

Harvie: <insert garbled, biology-denying, total, complete and utter fkin lunacy here>

Watching TV audience: "WTAF?"

Madness.

absolutely correct.  Lunatics have taken over the government of Scotland.

[Malcolm]

12 hours ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said:

just wait for the passing of the bill for use of mandatory pronouns ......

more Krankies at christmas than black mirror

 

 

that can fuck right off.  No way I will be doing that.

 

[TDYER63]

Load of hyperbole on here. Play some Mozart Malcolm and get your blood pressure down..