Indyref 2 (2)

[Alibi]

The problem is that the SNP went down the virtue signalling route and have just about painted themselves into a corner.  They can't plausibly start calling for Grangemouth to stay open as a refinery while at the same time saying we have to stop producing oil.  To reverse that position would likely require a new leader who isn't tarred (see what I did there?) with the oil abolitionist brush.

My own view is that Scotland stopping oil production would make about no difference to our climate - oil will just be produced by the rest of the oil-producing countries around the world.  Also, there are other uses for oil apart from burning it - is the plastics industry to shut up shop?

Of course the real reason behind the Grangemouth closure is that it removes Scotland's ability to refine oil products, harming our economy and making us economic prisoners of the rUK.  Fuck the union.

 

[Malcolm]

5 minutes ago, Alibi said:

The problem is that the SNP went down the virtue signalling route and have just about painted themselves into a corner.  They can't plausibly start calling for Grangemouth to stay open as a refinery while at the same time saying we have to stop producing oil.  To reverse that position would likely require a new leader who isn't tarred (see what I did there?) with the oil abolitionist brush.

My own view is that Scotland stopping oil production would make about no difference to our climate - oil will just be produced by the rest of the oil-producing countries around the world.  Also, there are other uses for oil apart from burning it - is the plastics industry to shut up shop?

Of course the real reason behind the Grangemouth closure is that it removes Scotland's ability to refine oil products, harming our economy and making us economic prisoners of the rUK.  Fuck the union.

 

We are our own worst enemies.  The economy should trump everything - without it you fuck everything else.  Get some pragmatic business leaders influencing things instead of the greens and we might have a chance

[Hertsscot]

37 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

We are our own worst enemies.  The economy should trump everything - without it you fuck everything else.  

And many would say that the point is the environment should trump everything - without it you really do mess everything else up.

What you need is a sensible balance rather than playing off one against the other. A screwed up environment has enormous implications for the economy, similarly tackling the climate crisis provides lots of economic opportunities.

[phart]

[Malcolm]

2 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

And many would say that the point is the environment should trump everything - without it you really do mess everything else up.

What you need is a sensible balance rather than playing off one against the other. A screwed up environment has enormous implications for the economy, similarly tackling the climate crisis provides lots of economic opportunities.

my issue is with lunatics like harvie pushing an agenda at all costs.  What successful business has he run?

I am entirely unconvinced by heat pumps.  A more sensible approach is to drive the cost of electricity down such that electric boilers become cost effective.  For that we build a shitload of nuclear power stations.  Capital intensive but cheaper in the long run and can provide power when there is no wind. I am not against wind power but that’s part of the story.

 

[vanderark14]

17 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

🤣 wow really proactive, send out a tweet that you had a meeting, a meeting about what exactly? Seems to me that he has accepted the place will close and that’s it, no fight to keep it open,, 

What do you think Humza can do here? 

[vanderark14]

11 hours ago, Alibi said:

The problem is that the SNP went down the virtue signalling route and have just about painted themselves into a corner.  They can't plausibly start calling for Grangemouth to stay open as a refinery while at the same time saying we have to stop producing oil.  To reverse that position would likely require a new leader who isn't tarred (see what I did there?) with the oil abolitionist brush.

My own view is that Scotland stopping oil production would make about no difference to our climate - oil will just be produced by the rest of the oil-producing countries around the world.  Also, there are other uses for oil apart from burning it - is the plastics industry to shut up shop?

Of course the real reason behind the Grangemouth closure is that it removes Scotland's ability to refine oil products, harming our economy and making us economic prisoners of the rUK.  Fuck the union.

 

Stephen Flynn who has a pretty big voice nowadays has said there needs to be a middle ground in terms of the oil industry and climate change. Sounds fair to me.

To some that might look like backtracking but I'm not convinced it Is I always thought the SNP stance was the above but the media spun it into a just stop oil protest and then got all sorts of quotes from the greens.

I believe flynn will win back some support with his stance on oil.

I do believe the greens have a place within the government but humza needs to get them to tone it down because for the SNP nothing should get in the way of independence and I do mean nothing. If the greens don't tone it down then the SNP need to go it alone.

[aaid]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

Stephen Flynn who has a pretty big voice nowadays has said there needs to be a middle ground in terms of the oil industry and climate change. Sounds fair to me.

To some that might look like backtracking but I'm not convinced it Is I always thought the SNP stance was the above but the media spun it into a just stop oil protest and then got all sorts of quotes from the greens.

I believe flynn will win back some support with his stance on oil.

I do believe the greens have a place within the government but humza needs to get them to tone it down because for the SNP nothing should get in the way of independence and I do mean nothing. If the greens don't tone it down then the SNP need to go it alone.

As far as I can see, what Stephen Flynn is saying is not materially different from what Nicola Sturgeon was saying.   I think the only difference is that the messenger is more acceptable to some.

[King Of Paisley]

3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Stephen Flynn who has a pretty big voice nowadays has said there needs to be a middle ground in terms of the oil industry and climate change. Sounds fair to me.

To some that might look like backtracking but I'm not convinced it Is I always thought the SNP stance was the above but the media spun it into a just stop oil protest and then got all sorts of quotes from the greens.

I believe flynn will win back some support with his stance on oil.

I do believe the greens have a place within the government but humza needs to get them to tone it down because for the SNP nothing should get in the way of independence and I do mean nothing. If the greens don't tone it down then the SNP need to go it alone.

Given that muppet Lorna Slater's recent  comments about independence not being a red line if doing a deal with a future minority Labour government in holiday is enough reason for the SNP going it alone. The Greens will just whore themselves to whoever to ensure they still get a whiff of power. I don't think they are any way serious about independence. Get her, Harvie and the rest to fuck 

[Alibi]

23 minutes ago, King Of Paisley said:

Given that muppet Lorna Slater's recent  comments about independence not being a red line if doing a deal with a future minority Labour government in holiday is enough reason for the SNP going it alone. The Greens will just whore themselves to whoever to ensure they still get a whiff of power. I don't think they are any way serious about independence. Get her, Harvie and the rest to fuck 

Agreed.  They are toxic, and they are harmful to the SNP's electoral prospects.  And hardly anyone voted for them - they only have list seats, and they only have those because they claimed to want independence.  How many would have voted for them if they hadn't said they wanted independence?

[hampden_loon2878]

4 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

What do you think Humza can do here? 

Use the closure to stoke up feeling within Scotland of asset stripping, also use it to send out a signal that Scotland’s oil industry has a future 

[vanderark14]

5 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Use the closure to stoke up feeling within Scotland of asset stripping, also use it to send out a signal that Scotland’s oil industry has a future 

Absolutely with you on the 2nd point re the oil industry but I'm not sure it's possible to stoke up the feeling of asset stripping unless he knows for sure that is what is happening and he has proof. 

[hampden_loon2878]

Its  political posturing, doesn’t need to be true 

[hampden_loon2878]

Decent polling today for yes and a bit better for the snp

[Hertsscot]

On a different topic. Nottingham County Council declaring itself effectively bankrupt. Run by Labour and in England so it can hardly be the SNPs fault. 

There are particular reasons for Nottingham's problems but the average council in England faces a £33 million deficit over the next few years.

There have been cuts to budgets in Scottish councils, and I'm sure the SNP could do better, but this is a UK wide problem due to the incompetence and misplaced priorities of the present UK Government.

[King Of Paisley]

39 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Decent polling today for yes and a bit better for the snp

10 point lead which would equate to 44 seats and a Toaly wipe out

54% for Yes

Ipsos STV news

 

[Ally Bongo]

2 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

There have been cuts to budgets in Scottish councils, and I'm sure the SNP could do better, but this is a UK wide problem due to the incompetence and misplaced priorities of the present UK Government.

The only way the councils can get more money that will make a difference from the monies allocated from Westminster is if somewhere else gets less

Leaving aside the money spaffed on the DRS & HPMA's etc

[Orraloon]

31 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

On a different topic. Nottingham County Council declaring itself effectively bankrupt. Run by Labour and in England so it can hardly be the SNPs fault. 

 

"Of course it's the SNPs fault. If they hadn't wasted so much money on the Scottish Parliament Building there would be plenty to go round." 

[Orraloon]

31 minutes ago, King Of Paisley said:

10 point lead which would equate to 44 seats and a Toaly wipe out

54% for Yes

Ipsos STV news

 

Nothing better than a "Toaly wipe out" 👍

[StirlingEgg]

6 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Nothing better than a "Toaly wipe out" 👍

I've not heard that term for ages! 

[aaid]

Ca’ canny with this poll.  Ipsos have been “Indy friendly” for a while, they haven’t done a poll since May, and the numbers were basically the same then.

Need more polls from more companies. 

[aaid]

54 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

On a different topic. Nottingham County Council declaring itself effectively bankrupt. Run by Labour and in England so it can hardly be the SNPs fault. 

There are particular reasons for Nottingham's problems but the average council in England faces a £33 million deficit over the next few years.

There have been cuts to budgets in Scottish councils, and I'm sure the SNP could do better, but this is a UK wide problem due to the incompetence and misplaced priorities of the present UK Government.

My local council - now Lib Dem run since May but the problems were caused by the Tories - is a baw hair away from being bankrupt.  

[King Of Paisley]

25 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Nothing better than a "Toaly wipe out" 👍

Would love to see it. I do find it hard to see the SNP winning all three Borders seats as one calculation suggests 

[PapofGlencoe]

hadn't seen that poll, apart from on here.  Good to see.  remarkably, I dont think support for Indy is really the main problem right enough.  You somewhat hope the more people see of Labour less they like.  still a tough challenge.

[King Of Paisley]

17 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

hadn't seen that poll, apart from on here.  Good to see.  remarkably, I dont think support for Indy is really the main problem right enough.  You somewhat hope the more people see of Labour less they like.  still a tough challenge.

The message needs to get through up here that Labour are simply no different to the Tories. Wedded to a hard Brext, just as aggressive on immigration, a reminder that the fat slug in Jackie Baillie voted against free school meals, Liz Kendall saying the Tories aren't going far enough on benefits crackdown. Not to mention the true socialists in the Labour Party have long since been purged.