Indyref 2 (2)

[Alibi]

On 8/29/2023 at 11:38 AM, Caledonian Craig said:

I have no doubt you will get called a nationalist and reminded we are all one big happy family in the UK and the electricity and also oil does not belong to a country that does not exist. If only more Scots could grown a backbone, a brain and some balls to stand up for themselves.

Yes, the degree of contortions that these unionists will go through to do down Scotland is beyond belief.  Once they put this new cable in, we'll no doubt still be paying the highest electricity prices in the UK and have the highest transmission charges. Unionists just love being in an abusive relationship.  Happy family?  Not a chance.

[aaid]

I see that the "why can't we work together"* crowd are causing a fuss about the march in Edinburgh tomorrow.   

Apparently its the wrong sort of Indy march or something. 

*working together is of course a good thing, their agenda however doesn't seem to be very collegiate.

 

[Ally Bongo]

32 minutes ago, aaid said:

  

Apparently its the wrong sort of Indy march or something. 

 

 

It is not an open event

Does not include any speakers or permit stalls from any other party than the SNP or Greens 

Conflates Independence with EU membership

But you know this

Edited September 1, 2023 by Ally Bongo

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

It is not an open event

Does not include any speakers or permit stalls from any other party than the SNP or Greens 

Conflates Independence with EU membership

But you know this

And you prove my point.

[Ally Bongo]

4 minutes ago, aaid said:

And you prove my point.

That the SNP want to retain the hegemony of the Independence movement and shut out everyone else except the weirdo greens ?

[aaid]

9 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

That the SNP want to retain the hegemony of the Independence movement and shut out everyone else except the weirdo greens ?

I see there’s 10 speakers listed.  Only three are politicians, 2 SNP and 1 Green.

Did Alba ask for someone to appear and were refused or have the decided not to appear themselves?  Any other pro-Indy parties?

Are you saying that Believe in Scotland are fronts for the SNP.

Independence in the EU has been a long standing policy for the SNP, a policy that - amongst others - was designed by Alex Salmond.   Alba’s policy seems to be joining EFTA, largely it seems from a pragmatic viewpoint over the timeline of entry.  It’s not one that I agree with but it’s a fair enough viewpoint.  Is it a red line though?

Political parties working together means being able to agree on the things they agree on and to put to one side the things they don’t for the greater good.

 

[Hertsscot]

4 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

It is not an open event

Does not include any speakers or permit stalls from any other party than the SNP or Greens 

Conflates Independence with EU membership

But you know this

It's a Business in Scotland event. It's open to anyone to attend, I'll be there just as I've been on AUOB matches. 

I agree though, it would be great if we could have rallies/marches with speakers across the breadth of the indy movement. 

[Freeedom]

The SNP aren't an independence party, they're a pro EU party. Good luck with the little march tomorrow, I'm sure the Morningside crew will be out in force after they've had brunch and been to yoga class.

[aaid]

24 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

The SNP aren't an independence party, they're a pro EU party. Good luck with the little march tomorrow, I'm sure the Morningside crew will be out in force after they've had brunch and been to yoga class.

Another “my version of independence is the only one that counts” guy. 

[Freeedom]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Another “my version of independence is the only one that counts” guy. 

False, my version of independence is open to those that are both pro or anti EU. Seems to be the most inclusive version to me.

Stop talking shite 

[aaid]

7 hours ago, Freeedom said:

False, my version of independence is open to those that are both pro or anti EU. Seems to be the most inclusive version to me.

Stop talking shite 

Aside from those who you sneer at seemingly.  I’m a democrat, I’ll go with what most people want.  

Edited September 2, 2023 by aaid

[hampden_loon2878]

15 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

It is not an open event

Does not include any speakers or permit stalls from any other party than the SNP or Greens 

Conflates Independence with EU membership

But you know this

Of course he does, narrowing independence down to EU,greens ect is idiotic,, it’s about self governance 

[hampden_loon2878]

8 hours ago, aaid said:

Another “my version of independence is the only one that counts” guy. 

You are the worlds worst for that,, maybe try and remove a tiny bit of your arrogance and try looking from a different perspective to the weird self entitled NUSNP view point

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

You are the worlds worst for that,, maybe try and remove a tiny bit of your arrogance and try looking from a different perspective to the weird self entitled NUSNP view point

Getting simultaneously attacked by the left and right wings of the independence movement.  Looks l must be sitting in the right place then

[Hertsscot]

Tell you what anyone who wants to remain part of the Union, must love this thread. Is Alan still around?

[Toepoke]

10 hours ago, Freeedom said:

The SNP aren't an independence party, they're a pro EU party. 

There are no independent countries in the EU? 🤔

 

[Freeedom]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

Aside from those who you sneer at seemingly.  I’m a democrat, I’ll go with what most people want.  

Do I need to draw a Venn diagram? The demographic that includes the most people is the one where the only requirement is support for Scottish independence, and is not also predicated on other conditionals. You're not a stupid person, you perfectly well understand this but because you're so arrogant you don't care.

In fact, there is nobody who is more sneering and arrogant than an enlightened centrist who uses faulty logic like "because X and Y both disagree with me, that's means Z is right.". 

 

[Freeedom]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

There are no independent countries in the EU? 🤔

 

This is a really uninteresting, semantic question that leads nowhere.

[Orraloon]

11 hours ago, Freeedom said:

The SNP aren't an independence party, they're a pro EU party. 

Most reasonable thinking people, that I know, would agree that it's possible to be both at the same time. Are you saying that you think that's not the case? In which case, are you an independence person or an anti EU person?

[TDYER63]

2 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Tell you what anyone who wants to remain part of the Union, must love this thread. Is Alan still around?

👍

I will be at the march . The purpose of it is to draw attention to the fact a large number of people want independence and to keep some momentum going. Not pander to individual needs. Like you,  I have been,  and will continue to attend, AUOB marches. 

Meanwhile other folk can sit arguing on the internet. 

[Freeedom]

39 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Most reasonable thinking people, that I know, would agree that it's possible to be both at the same time. Are you saying that you think that's not the case? In which case, are you an independence person or an anti EU person?

The party's focus is about rejoining the EU, not about being independent any more. Getting independence is a means to rejoin the EU, the mask is off. The party are targeting the middle class No voter of 2014 who cares about EU membership more than Scotland's independence. 

Those same voters will never vote for independence once starmer becomes PM and starts talking about rejoining the EU.

[Orraloon]

12 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

The party's focus is about rejoining the EU, not about being independent any more. Getting independence is a means to rejoin the EU, the mask is off. The party are targeting the middle class No voter of 2014 who cares about EU membership more than Scotland's independence. 

Those same voters will never vote for independence once starmer becomes PM and starts talking about rejoining the EU.

So, you think Starmer is going to take the UK back into the EU? 

[Freeedom]

28 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

So, you think Starmer is going to take the UK back into the EU? 

Yeah, he'll push for it slowly. We know what he really believes.

He'll say or do anything to get into office and then push his own agenda as soon as he's elected 

[aaid]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

👍

I will be at the march . The purpose of it is to draw attention to the fact a large number of people want independence and to keep some momentum going. Not pander to individual needs. Like you,  I have been,  and will continue to attend, AUOB marches. 

Meanwhile other folk can sit arguing on the internet. 

Good luck to you.  Marching isn't really my thing, I don't think that in itself it changes the mind of any no voter, it is all preaching to the converted.  That said, if people get fired up and then go out and talk to other people who are less convinced then it's a good thing, its really all about motivation for the grass roots.

If all people do is march around Scotland and talk amongst themselves, it's a bit of a waste of time.

[Rich NATA]

5 hours ago, Toepoke said:

There are no independent countries in the EU? 🤔

 

That's what some people say.

The same people say we want to leave one union to join another union.

Just because two things have the word union in them doesn't make them the same.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Rich NATA