Israel V Scotland

[mccaughey85]

                     marshall

         hanley gallagher tierney 

fraser                                  robertson

          mctominay mcgregor

                      mcginn

                christie  adams

Bit of a risk putting fraser at rwb but i believe one of our problems is we are not attacking enough and i think his pace and skill would help us create more chances. hes also too good a player to leave out imo.

[mccaughey85]

16 hours ago, JECK said:

So Kevin Gallacher thinks a draw will be a good result does he - clueless.  Since the Serbia game I’ve been really p**sed off with us not capitalising on chances. We’re more than a match for Slovakia, Israel and Austria last night in certain areas of the pitch. That game was there for the win last night.We’ve got to sort out the final 3rd and start converting. We’ve got players at Man U, arsenal and Liverpool (and villa/Southampton) we’re playing relatively well so let’s start winning. 18 points from Israel, faroes and Moldova and nothing less. Sick of not winning games we should be winning.

we also have players playing for motherwell,qpr,derby and oostende in our first eleven. austria had nearly a full team from the bundesliga and other top 5 euro leagues. fair enough we should be beating israel, moldova and the faroes but austria are easily a match for us given the weaknesses in our squad.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

we also have players playing for motherwell,qpr,derby and oostende in our first eleven. austria had nearly a full team from the bundesliga and other top 5 euro leagues. fair enough we should be beating israel, moldova and the faroes but austria are easily a match for us given the weaknesses in our squad.

O'Donnell (Motherwell) stopped Alaba (Bayern Munich) having any influence on the game. Motherwell managed an assist and Bayern Munich did not. One of our hoals coming from Motherwell cross to Norwich City headed equaliser.

[ParisInAKilt]

Expect a tough game, won’t be much in it but hopefully we can win, we have to if we want to finish 1st or 2nd 

[mccaughey85]

35 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

O'Donnell (Motherwell) stopped Alaba (Bayern Munich) having any influence on the game. Motherwell managed an assist and Bayern Munich did not. One of our hoals coming from Motherwell cross to Norwich City headed equaliser.

my point wasnt that the players from those clubs played poorly. i was just making a counter point that us having guys who play for man u, arsenal etc doesnt mean we should be beating the likes of austria home and away. austria have a strong pool of players and its not a given that we should beat them just because we have a few players playing at elite clubs.

[Caledonian Craig]

18 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

my point wasnt that the players from those clubs played poorly. i was just making a counter point that us having guys who play for man u, arsenal etc doesnt mean we should be beating the likes of austria home and away. austria have a strong pool of players and its not a given that we should beat them just because we have a few players playing at elite clubs.

Yes its proof that where a player is playing does not mean they cannot strongly influence even international matches. Also players playing at the biggest clubs do not guarantee success at international level.

[Morrisandmoo]

4-1 Scotland. Adams and Fraser on the score sheet. 

We are going to go ballistic 

[Diamond Scot]

24 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes its proof that where a player is playing does not mean they cannot strongly influence even international matches. Also players playing at the biggest clubs do not guarantee success at international level.

It doesnt guarentee sucess but over a qualifying campaign you are much more likely to have sucess with a team full of top league players than not. Hence why all the big nations temd to always qualify .

[er yir macaroon]

2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

                     marshall

         hanley gallagher tierney 

fraser                                  robertson

          mctominay mcgregor

                      mcginn

                christie  adams

Bit of a risk putting fraser at rwb but i believe one of our problems is we are not attacking enough and i think his pace and skill would help us create more chances. hes also too good a player to leave out imo.

Fraser’s wee legs aren’t suited to covering the long miles. He needs to remain much further up the park. Do not overlook O’Donnell’s value at set pieces at both ends of the pitch. 

[Caledonian Craig]

9 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

It doesnt guarentee sucess but over a qualifying campaign you are much more likely to have sucess with a team full of top league players than not. Hence why all the big nations temd to always qualify .

Yes but as I say not guaranteed. Who was Northern Ireland's most prolific striker of all-time? David Healy - yet spent almost all of his career in lower league football but ended up with an international strike-rate that we would kill for right now. Also one of our most consistent right-backs in the last 20 years may very well have been Graham Alexander - another who was to ply his trade in lower league football. Another example from the other side of the spectrum being Charlie Adam - mince for Scotland but played for Rangers and Liverpool.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Caledonian Craig

[mccaughey85]

29 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes its proof that where a player is playing does not mean they cannot strongly influence even international matches. Also players playing at the biggest clubs do not guarantee success at international level.

If we had a full squad of players from motherwell, derby and qpr then we wouldnt stand a chance of qualifying. having a full squad of players playing in the top 5 leagues under good management will guarantee a certain level of success, ie going to the euros and the occasional world cup. fair enough there are individual success stories of inferior squads doing relatively well like iceland for example but if we want to succeed on a consistent basis then more players playing at a high level is whats needed. our squad is quite poor in areas and i would say austria have strength in areas that we dont so i would say that just because we have a few players at elite clubs doesnt guarantee us success over them.

[mccaughey85]

9 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Fraser’s wee legs aren’t suited to covering the long miles. He needs to remain much further up the park. Do not overlook O’Donnell’s value at set pieces at both ends of the pitch. 

the size of a players legs has no bearing on them getting up or down the park. the guy is a winger who plays in one of the most physically demanding leagues in the world. hes perfectly fine at covering long distances.

[ProudScot]

3 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

we also have players playing for motherwell,qpr,derby and oostende in our first eleven. austria had nearly a full team from the bundesliga and other top 5 euro leagues. fair enough we should be beating israel, moldova and the faroes but austria are easily a match for us given the weaknesses in our squad.

We also had way more chances than we normally do & also the better chances of the game. We should have won, even with their goal disallowed standing. 

[Tartan blood]

38 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

4-1 Scotland. Adams and Fraser on the score sheet. 

We are going to go ballistic 

I think I've said it the past 2 times we've played them (and I really don't want to say it again) but Israel are overdue a good beating by us. They got some decent results against us when we were at rock bottom, but we are on the ascendancy now and have superior players.

Their best weapon against us is their familiarity. We should be able to put 3 past them. But I doubt it. I'll take a 1-0 win and a good performance any day.

[mccaughey85]

10 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes but as I say not guaranteed. Who was Northern Ireland's most prolific striker of all-time? David Healy - yet spent almost all of his career in lower league football but ended up with an international strike-rate that we would kill for right now. Also one of our most consistent right-backs in the last 20 years may very well have been Graham Alexander - another who was to ply his trade in lower league football. Another example from the other side of the spectrum being Charlie Adam - mince for Scotland but played for Rangers and Liverpool.

david healy was not the main component of northern irelands sucess. they had a defence of players playing for west brom in the epl coupled with some decent players playing in the epl like davis and cathcart. under good management they massively overachieved. northern ireland achieved the maximum they could ever dreamed of with such a poor level of squad imo.

also graham alexander was half decent for us, seems like hes being remembered as a top international by some on here. its because of the standard of guys like graham alexander that we never qualified for tournaments for over 20 years.

[mccaughey85]

9 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

We also had way more chances than we normally do & also the better chances of the game. We should have won, even with their goal disallowed standing. 

yes i have not said otherwise, my point is that austria is by no means games we should be winning easily home and away and we also dont have a stronger squad than them despite having a few players playing at elite clubs.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

 

also graham alexander was half decent for us, seems like hes being remembered as a top international by some on here. its because of the standard of guys like graham alexander that we never qualified for tournaments for over 20 years.

No I think you need to look far more to your big club non-performers around that time such as Charlie Adam. His stinking performances for us were legendary unlike Alexanders.

[mccaughey85]

6 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

No I think you need to look far more to your big club non-performers around that time such as Charlie Adam. His stinking performances for us were legendary unlike Alexanders.

your picking out individual cases to suit your argument. why does clarke pick his squads from the epl/spl instead of the scottish highland league. its because the level you play at is the main indicator of you ability. yes there will be guys from lesser teams/leagues who can do well but the squad of players from top clubs/leagues will most of the time defeat the squad from lesser leagues, its why you never have league1/2 clubs reaching the fa cup semis or final. austria have at the very least a squad equal to ours or slightly better, we need to be at our best to beat them which is where a good manager makes the difference.

[Caledonian Craig]

25 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

your picking out individual cases to suit your argument. why does clarke pick his squads from the epl/spl instead of the scottish highland league. its because the level you play at is the main indicator of you ability. yes there will be guys from lesser teams/leagues who can do well but the squad of players from top clubs/leagues will most of the time defeat the squad from lesser leagues, its why you never have league1/2 clubs reaching the fa cup semis or final. austria have at the very least a squad equal to ours or slightly better, we need to be at our best to beat them which is where a good manager makes the difference.

International football is about working with what you have and building a team with the players you have available. Its a pity but you seem to believe that because a player plays for a big club it means big things are delivered on the international pitch - it does not. It is all about how each player performs on the pitch. It is not up for debate that we've had players who much more was expected of and failed to deliver whereas others at less unfashionable clubs have applied themselves much better at international level. I could run a whole list of players off for you if you would like. 

End point being that what is more important is having eleven players out on the pitch who can put in a performance and not let you down. Sure you will come to expect more of a team of players playing in big leagues but look at Serbia and it did not get them through the play-offs against us and Austria the other night never blew us off the park despite having Bundesliga players packed into their side whilst we has Hanley (Norwich City and scored), Dykes (Championship), Marshall (Championship) and Hendry (Oostende). In fact quite a few Scotland supporters feel we could and maybe should have won.

[Banna84]

This Scotland team is such a difficult one to pick as there are quite a few good option but the balance is not quite right. 
 

our 532 or 352 is a little defensive as our wingbacks are not offensive enough. Robbo is much better as full back where the game is front of him and he can run on to it. 

O’Donnell has done ok tbh but does offer anything attacking wise.  I would like to see us try Fraser there again or switch to a 4321 and play similar set up to Rangers. 
 

our best players are all midfielders or number 10’s. This would let us control the game a bit more with an extra midfielder whilst still having a goal threat from the 10’s

 

I’d go

 

                    Marshall

O’Donnell Hendry McKenna Robertson

     McTominay McGregor McGinn

         Christie         Armstrong

                      Dykes

if playing 532

 

                     Marshall 

 

      Gallagher Hendry Tierney

fraser             Mcgregor.          Robertson    
             McTominay.    Mcginn

           Christie

                             Dykes

[Third Lanark]

I've heard folk suggesting Armstrong, Fraser or, from further back, Forrest to play right wing back. Clarke has never put a winger in that position - he plays bona fide full backs, so SOD will be first choice at least till Patterson and Hickey come aboard. 

[killiefaetheferry]

15 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

I've heard folk suggesting Armstrong, Fraser or, from further back, Forrest to play right wing back. Clarke has never put a winger in that position - he plays bona fide full backs, so SOD will be first choice at least till Patterson and Hickey come aboard. 

I wonder if he might drop McTominay back in there against the better nations? Possibly Hendry at rwb. I'm thinking like the England game. 

[romanticscot]

Can't see Hendry at right back, SOD and Palmer when he has came on has been fine. McTominay in midfield against countries with more abilities is even more reason to have him in midfield, gives protection and has our active play further forward. McTominay in midfield tomorrow might make us more assured, we need to win, Clarke has said so which is a great sign of intent. Israel haven't seen the best of us but I think we have seen the best of them. 

[Third Lanark]

2 minutes ago, romanticscot said:

Can't see Hendry at right back, SOD and Palmer when he has came on has been fine. McTominay in midfield against countries with more abilities is even more reason to have him in midfield, gives protection and has our active play further forward. McTominay in midfield tomorrow might make us more assured, we need to win, Clarke has said so which is a great sign of intent. Israel haven't seen the best of us but I think we have seen the best of them. 

 

3 minutes ago, romanticscot said:

Can't see Hendry at right back, SOD and Palmer when he has came on has been fine. McTominay in midfield against countries with more abilities is even more reason to have him in midfield, gives protection and has our active play further forward. McTominay in midfield tomorrow might make us more assured, we need to win, Clarke has said so which is a great sign of intent. Israel haven't seen the best of us but I think we have seen the best of them. 

You would hope so; I can't see how they got ranked at 106 or whatever; they seem far too good for that ranking. We should take the mindset of our rugby side - nothing at stake but for sheer pride they went to France and won. Can't help thinking that if that was us in a football game, we would not be up for it. It's a mental thing. McTom has talked about being arrogant in the right way and he's correct.

[mccaughey85]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

International football is about working with what you have and building a team with the players you have available. Its a pity but you seem to believe that because a player plays for a big club it means big things are delivered on the international pitch - it does not. It is all about how each player performs on the pitch. It is not up for debate that we've had players who much more was expected of and failed to deliver whereas others at less unfashionable clubs have applied themselves much better at international level. I could run a whole list of players off for you if you would like. 

End point being that what is more important is having eleven players out on the pitch who can put in a performance and not let you down. Sure you will come to expect more of a team of players playing in big leagues but look at Serbia and it did not get them through the play-offs against us and Austria the other night never blew us off the park despite having Bundesliga players packed into their side whilst we has Hanley (Norwich City and scored), Dykes (Championship), Marshall (Championship) and Hendry (Oostende). In fact quite a few Scotland supporters feel we could and maybe should have won.

i dont disagree with anything you said there. I was merely pointing out that expecting to beat austria home and away because we have a few players who play for top clubs is daft. not sure we are even disagreeing tbh.

Also management comes into it as well, a good manager like clarke can make the difference against the likes of serbia etc. We certainly dont have a stronger squad than serbia or austria so getting the best out of guys like dykes and o donnell is where a good manager helps.