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53 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

I was swithering bigtime too, and closer to doing the X it was almost a toss of a coin, or 51-49 Green. 

If we get at least a Alba and Green list MSP, I'll be happy. 

I know of two others who went SNP/Green ; two SNP/SNP and one has gone SNP/Alba. These people all voted SNP in 15 and 16 ; didn't vote at all in 17 and voted SNP in December 2019. 

The SNP x2 voters were close to voting for Alba, but they heard from a neighbour who's and older activist inside the SNP who said the SNP were on course to lose 3 seats in the North East (probably shite, scare mongering TBH) so I think they felt a bit worried. I believe you can change your vote?! Up to polling day?! 

Loon, I'm not fully sold on the Greens, but a lot of their stuff is excellent - land reform ; workers rights ; four day week ; cannabis legislation ; ending plastic use by 2025 ; prison reform but there's also things I know wouldn't work either. 

My fear is the Greens and Alba both end up about 500 votes short of a list seat each, if that happens and lets in a Tory and Lib on the list, I'll greet but I'm quietly optimistic we can get both in. 

 

 

I just couldn’t trust the greens up here,  and the transgender stuff also gives me second thought,,they're membership are also not overly keen on indy either,, they have a bee in their bonnet about that sea spiracy on netflix as well and will be pushing tighter restrictions on fishing this term even though our fishermen are heavily regulated 

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I read both the tamb (although much less frequently these days) and wings and if you want to read pages and pages of personal abuse (a lot of it directed at Stuart Campbell funnily enough) and mindles

No , I will reply. I havent launched anything I have replied to your post.  Its your tone and attitude to the idea that people may not agree that SNP 1 /ALBA 2 is the best option. I am still genuine

You are doing a pretty good job of bullying and intimidating folk yourself. Its not a pantomime to be giving consideration to who you want your vote to go to. 

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55 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

I just couldn’t trust the greens up here,  and the transgender stuff also gives me second thought,,they're membership are also not overly keen on indy either,, they have a bee in their bonnet about that sea spiracy on netflix as well and will be pushing tighter restrictions on fishing this term even though our fishermen are heavily regulated 

Aye, good post and I cannot imagine they'll do well up your neck of the woods, but maybe they'll get enough in Aberdeen, Dundee, etc to win them seat. 

They are by no means perfect, but a bit like the Pirate Party in Iceland (don't fully support them either, but they're a ''good'' opposition to have and to shake up parliament).

How's tricks up your way? Been reading on Twitter - so take it with a pinch of salt etc- but a lot of unhappy former fisherfolk who feel shafted by the Tories, so you wonder if they'll vote Alba (EEA rather than EU). 

Fingers crossed, well I doubt you will be for a Green, but if we can get two pro-indies in on the list over a Lib and Tory, I'll be delighted. Only worry is Alba get 4.5% and the Greens something similar and 0..

We'll have a good wee idea next weekend at this time.

 

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2 hours ago, weekevie04 said:

I was swithering bigtime too, and closer to doing the X it was almost a toss of a coin, or 51-49 Green. 

If we get at least a Alba and Green list MSP, I'll be happy. 

I know of two others who went SNP/Green ; two SNP/SNP and one has gone SNP/Alba. These people all voted SNP in 15 and 16 ; didn't vote at all in 17 and voted SNP in December 2019. 

The SNP x2 voters were close to voting for Alba, but they heard from a neighbour who's and older activist inside the SNP who said the SNP were on course to lose 3 seats in the North East (probably shite, scare mongering TBH) so I think they felt a bit worried. I believe you can change your vote?! Up to polling day?! 

Loon, I'm not fully sold on the Greens, but a lot of their stuff is excellent - land reform ; workers rights ; four day week ; cannabis legislation ; ending plastic use by 2025 ; prison reform but there's also things I know wouldn't work either. 

My fear is the Greens and Alba both end up about 500 votes short of a list seat each, if that happens and lets in a Tory and Lib on the list, I'll greet but I'm quietly optimistic we can get both in. 

 

 

Are the Greens really proposing that? Nonsensical. Can't and won't happen. 

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6 hours ago, weekevie04 said:

Aye, good post and I cannot imagine they'll do well up your neck of the woods, but maybe they'll get enough in Aberdeen, Dundee, etc to win them seat. 

They are by no means perfect, but a bit like the Pirate Party in Iceland (don't fully support them either, but they're a ''good'' opposition to have and to shake up parliament).

How's tricks up your way? Been reading on Twitter - so take it with a pinch of salt etc- but a lot of unhappy former fisherfolk who feel shafted by the Tories, so you wonder if they'll vote Alba (EEA rather than EU). 

Fingers crossed, well I doubt you will be for a Green, but if we can get two pro-indies in on the list over a Lib and Tory, I'll be delighted. Only worry is Alba get 4.5% and the Greens something similar and 0..

We'll have a good wee idea next weekend at this time.

 

Erm its really hard to read, turn out will be low as i see a lit of fishers or folk who work in the industry abstaining, the tories have wrecked the industry they really have, but they dont trust sturgeon, it will come down to tyrn out I suppose and what demographics are more motivated, if you geld a gun to my head Banff and Buchan will go blue, moray stays yellow, Aberdeenshire east will be yellow again, aberdeen, yellow, Aberdeenshire west remain blue  

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9 hours ago, Lamia said:

I wasn't comparing with England I was highlighting what the Tories did when in actual power which was more draconian in many areas. You are being conned by their rhetoric.

Yes, but in making that argument your pointing to exceptions, rather than the rule. Which makes your argument less compelling.

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12 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Yes I agree cash is important but not as important as ensuring we are in a position to return to normal. I really do think things are looking much better now and that there is an end to this in sight  but I dont see why it is so  important to put specific dates on things . 
The UK was already in outrageous debt before Covid,  it will take many generations to repay it , if ever. This push to reopen quickly is being driven by profits, or lack of, by big business . Not for concern about young people being stuffed in the future. And  I am not entirely sure that a guy who spends circa £100k of other peoples money refurbishing a flat has any concept of being poor . 
 

 

Sorry for me it's less about dates and more about the principle of being committed to a plan that  removes all social distancing and manages mortality risk in the round (rather than applying covid exceptionalism). 

SNP have a stated ambition of aspiring to zero covid deaths and a highly restricted level 0, with no plans to go further.

Those are policies which frankly terrify me. And it's for that reason, along with their performance in government, that I'm not voting for the SNP. 

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49 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Does anybody else worry that if Alex Salmond gets in, then it will be non stop drama between him and Sturgeon and nothing else will get air time?

It's certainly got the potential to drag the standard of Scottish political journalism down a notch (if that's possible).

 

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54 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Does anybody else worry that if Alex Salmond gets in, then it will be non stop drama between him and Sturgeon and nothing else will get air time?

no, after a few weeks it will be old news, the parliment and the snp will be a lot better with him there,, lets be honest he will be stronger opposition than the rest of the parties combined and he will be on the "independence side" as well

 

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29 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

no, after a few weeks it will be old news, the parliment and the snp will be a lot better with him there,, lets be honest he will be stronger opposition than the rest of the parties combined and he will be on the "independence side" as well

 

That is true, he'll certainly be a much more hostile and challenging opposition than the SNP are accustomed to. I suspect Alex Salmond is mostly on the side of Alex Salmond to be honest, but he will certainly be a strong voice for independance as well.

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21 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

no, after a few weeks it will be old news, the parliment and the snp will be a lot better with him there,, lets be honest he will be stronger opposition than the rest of the parties combined and he will be on the "independence side" as well

 

Depends entirely on how many seats they get - if any.  Fewer than five and you are not considered as a party group and are not represented on the Parliamentary Bureau which is the body that decides the business of the Parliament.  That means you don't get a lot of the privileges such as regular questions at FMQs, membership and convenorships of committees and general parliamentary time.  Will be severely restricted in their ability to be heard.  

In the absence of an overall majority for the SNP, they seem to be a lot more willing to work with the Greens, so Alba could well see themselves frozen out, particularly with such an unpopular leader at the helm.

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2 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Sorry for me it's less about dates and more about the principle of being committed to a plan that  removes all social distancing and manages mortality risk in the round (rather than applying covid exceptionalism). 

SNP have a stated ambition of aspiring to zero covid deaths and a highly restricted level 0, with no plans to go further.

Those are policies which frankly terrify me. And it's for that reason, along with their performance in government, that I'm not voting for the SNP. 

Political parties aspire to  ambitions all the time knowing there is not a hope in hell of achieving them . Do you really think that if the whole of the UK is operating as normal NS is still going to be keeping restrictions in places until she reaches zero deaths for a sustained period of time ?

I know its the Tories attitude to Covid that is attractive to you but you cannot just cherry pick one policy , if you vote for them you are opening the gateway to every Tory policy. I cannot see how someone who is a fan of Jeremy Corbyn could even consider this.  You mention in a post to Lamia that she is pointing to exceptions yet you are voting for a party for their position on one single policy.  

I dont mean to be like a dug with a bone here as I genuinely feel your social conscience  is sound , I am just not sure you have fully considered the consequences . I am not trying to push you towards SNP , I can see your mind is made up on that. I am more concerned about who you are choosing as an alternative.

 To use your own words, opening Scotland to a raft of Tory policies is something that frankly terrifies me. 

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2 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Does anybody else worry that if Alex Salmond gets in, then it will be non stop drama between him and Sturgeon and nothing else will get air time?

I do have concerns, and you only need to look at what the media did to Jeremy Corbyn to see how that could turn out. 

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On 4/30/2021 at 2:40 PM, dipped flake said:

That's my worry yes. AS has stated the day after the election he wants to start independence talks. That would be insanity imo and will scare some potential voters

I can understand why that might put people off voting Alba but I don't follow how it would turn someone off the idea of independence altogether. 

You might be right - I'm genuinely struggling to understand how support for the union appears to have increased again since the turn of the year. Possibly part of that is because of the Salmond/Sturgeon stushie; but even that is small beer compared to some of the shenanigans that have gone on and continue to go on with Westminster politicians.

I'm strongly considering giving Alba my list vote, because I think a healthy number of Alba MSPs could give the SNP the kick in the tail they need to get us back on the road to independence. The polls, though, aren't looking encouraging for them. Even Panelbase, who had previously polled quite highly for them, has one out today showing them at only 4% (albeit it's only a margin-of-error drop since the last one).

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6 minutes ago, scotlad said:

I can understand why that might put people off voting Alba but I don't follow how it would turn someone off the idea of independence altogether. 

You might be right - I'm genuinely struggling to understand how support for the union appears to have increased again since the turn of the year. Possibly part of that is because of the Salmond/Sturgeon stushie; but even that is small beer compared to some of the shenanigans that have gone on and continue to go on with Westminster politicians.

I'm strongly considering giving Alba my list vote, because I think a healthy number of Alba MSPs could give the SNP the kick in the tail they need to get us back on the road to independence. The polls, though, aren't looking encouraging for them. Even Panelbase, who had previously polled quite highly for them, has one out today showing them at only 4% (albeit it's only a margin-of-error drop since the last one).

polls are going the opposite way because IMO everyone is so sick of covid and the restrictions, at the start stugeon went through a honeymoon period that is now running thin. the trust aspect with her has been shook, it certainly has with me.. polling with alba should be taken with a serious pinch of salt, they are going to have pockets of support in different areas that is hard to gauge,, this is one strange election that i am struggling to get a feel for

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1 hour ago, aaid said:

Depends entirely on how many seats they get - if any.  Fewer than five and you are not considered as a party group and are not represented on the Parliamentary Bureau which is the body that decides the business of the Parliament.  That means you don't get a lot of the privileges such as regular questions at FMQs, membership and convenorships of committees and general parliamentary time.  Will be severely restricted in their ability to be heard.  

In the absence of an overall majority for the SNP, they seem to be a lot more willing to work with the Greens, so Alba could well see themselves frozen out, particularly with such an unpopular leader at the helm.

maybe so however the presence of them being there will IMO be a reminder to the snp that if they do not get their shit together, there is another party in the wings waiting to hoover up some of their votes.. good opposition eliminates complacency.. yes he is unpopular to many as he is a threat,, thats just life,, there are however a lot of folk who do and a lot more than you would like to believe 

 

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2 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

polls are going the opposite way because IMO everyone is so sick of covid and the restrictions, at the start stugeon went through a honeymoon period that is now running thin. the trust aspect with her has been shook, it certainly has with me.. polling with alba should be taken with a serious pinch of salt, they are going to have pockets of support in different areas that is hard to gauge,, this is one strange election that i am struggling to get a feel for

Unless I am mistaken ( and I could be) we are more or less  in the same position as England regarding restrictions , so if you are saying its the restrictions that are causing a problem why has the Tories support increased ? I dont believe for one minute 2 weeks of a difference between the countries makes much of a difference to people , especially when BJ has had to back track a number of times.

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4 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

maybe so however the presence of them being there will IMO be a reminder to the snp that if they do not get their shit together, there is another party in the wings waiting to hoover up some of their votes.. good opposition eliminates complacency.. yes he is unpopular to many as he is a threat,, thats just life,, there are however a lot of folk who do and a lot more than you would like to believe 

 

He is not just unpopular to folk who see him as a threat, he is unpopular to a huge amount of pro indy people. I think your location clouds your judgment on how Scotland portrays him Loon. Thats not to say he could not change that given the opportunity,  but I think he will face an ongoing slaughtering by the media. 
I honestly rate AS as a politician and genuinely feel we are poorer without him, but it is going to take a small miracle to overcome the negativity towards him. 

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18 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Political parties aspire to  ambitions all the time knowing there is not a hope in hell of achieving them . Do you really think that if the whole of the UK is operating as normal NS is still going to be keeping restrictions in places until she reaches zero deaths for a sustained period of time ?

I know its the Tories attitude to Covid that is attractive to you but you cannot just cherry pick one policy , if you vote for them you are opening the gateway to every Tory policy. I cannot see how someone who is a fan of Jeremy Corbyn could even consider this.  You mention in a post to Lamia that she is pointing to exceptions yet you are voting for a party for their position on one single policy.  

I dont mean to be like a dug with a bone here as I genuinely feel your social conscience  is sound , I am just not sure you have fully considered the consequences . I am not trying to push you towards SNP , I can see your mind is made up on that. I am more concerned about who you are choosing as an alternative.

 To use your own words, opening Scotland to a raft of Tory policies is something that frankly terrifies me. 

You are probably right - NS would most likely set her principles aside and follow Westminster's lead in the end. But that doesn't give me much solace.

I do understand the risks you are pointing out re lending support to the Tories on effectively a single issue - although Covid and Independence do seem to be weighing heavily on most people's vote, rather than combined policy impacts, so I don't think I'm alone. 

However, I am acutely aware that it is a nasty medicine that I'm planning to vote for and not without (potentially serious) side-effects. It's not a decision I have come to lightly. I do take some comfort from (1) there isn't actually too much in the Tory manifesto that I find offensive or that would fundamentally move Scotland to the Right (2) The Tories won't have a majority and will be balanced by SNP/labour, who I am also supporting (3) if the Tories do somehow wrestle a controlling interest, and if they go tonto, it will only help the Independence cause in the end (4) I can vote for somebody else in 5 years time. 

I will make sure to think it over again before casting my vote, and consider the points you have made, so you can sleep at night knowing you have done your best to dissuade a potential Tory voter :)

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8 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

You are probably right - NS would most likely set her principles aside and follow Westminster's lead in the end. But that doesn't give me much solace.

I do understand the risks you are pointing out re lending support to the Tories on effectively a single issue - although Covid and Independence do seem to be weighing heavily on most people's vote, rather than combined policy impacts, so I don't think I'm alone. 

However, I am acutely aware that it is a nasty medicine that I'm planning to vote for and not without (potentially serious) side-effects. It's not a decision I have come to lightly. I do take some comfort from (1) there isn't actually too much in the Tory manifesto that I find offensive or that would fundamentally move Scotland to the Right (2) The Tories won't have a majority and will be balanced by SNP/labour, who I am also supporting (3) if the Tories do somehow wrestle a controlling interest, and if they go tonto, it will only help the Independence cause in the end (4) I can vote for somebody else in 5 years time. 

I will make sure to think it over again before casting my vote, and consider the points you have made, so you can sleep at night knowing you have done your best to dissuade a potential Tory voter :)

😂😂 I cant ask for anymore than that 👍

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11 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Are the Greens really proposing that? Nonsensical. Can't and won't happen. 

It's a lofty dream, and agree, it won't happen, but we use too much plastic and if they get the ball rolling and make some progress on this and awareness around the general population I would be happy.

Look at how recycling went from basically zero to everything in the space of ten years. 

There's far too many products covered in plastic.

 

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2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

no, after a few weeks it will be old news, the parliment and the snp will be a lot better with him there,, lets be honest he will be stronger opposition than the rest of the parties combined and he will be on the "independence side" as well

 

Agree and cheers for the update on Aberdeenshire and Banff area. 

I know an SNP activist in his 50s and again, no idea how true this is, but he said he thinks if young people vote then the Greens will do well. He also thinks Alba will have a good night.

Greens having a good night for me is them winning seat(s) and increasing their vote ; Alba winning one seat would be a success for a party started 4 weeks go. I'm like you in the sense that I am not too sure how it will go either.

Two polls out today! SNP's constituency vote up a few percentage and Alba in one poll a bawhair fae a seat and the other on about 3 (according to Curtice)

Panelbase :

Constituency - SNP 48%, Con 21%, Lab 20%, Libs 7%

List - SNP 39%, Con 22%, Lab 16%, Greens 8%, Libs 7%, Alba 4%

 

BMG :

Const - SNP 49%, Lab 21%, Con 20% Libs 9%

List - SNP 37%, Con 22%, Lab 16%, Green 9%, Libs 8%, Alba 4%

A4U on about 2% in both polls.

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1 hour ago, aaid said:

Depends entirely on how many seats they get - if any.  Fewer than five and you are not considered as a party group and are not represented on the Parliamentary Bureau which is the body that decides the business of the Parliament.  That means you don't get a lot of the privileges such as regular questions at FMQs, membership and convenorships of committees and general parliamentary time.  Will be severely restricted in their ability to be heard.  

In the absence of an overall majority for the SNP, they seem to be a lot more willing to work with the Greens, so Alba could well see themselves frozen out, particularly with such an unpopular leader at the helm.

I don't think he is too interested in FMQs or any other parliamentary business. He's been there, done that. He might not even attend Holyrood that much. If he gets the 5 seats, then he might feel obliged to, or he might even delegate that to somebody else depending on who gets elected. The main political reason he is doing this is to increase the pace at which we move towards independence. He doesn't want us to wait another 3,4 or 10 years to get it moving. If he hadn't stood down in 2014 we would have had another referendum already. Of that I have absolutely no doubt. This is the whole reason why he and Nicola fell out in the first place. Everything else led from that. He probably has some other personal reasons as well, but who doesn't.

If he does get elected and it turns out he is the only one then his influence at Holyrood will be miniscule, but he has other ways to push his ideas. From his point of view he would like to have enough MSPs to hold some sort of balance of power. But that's his ideal outcome which he probably isn't expecting to happen. But most folk didn't expect a SNP win in 2007 and nobody expected an overall majority in 2011, so who knows? It's in the hands of the voters and they can sometimes be unpredictable.

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9 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

It's a lofty dream, and agree, it won't happen, but we use too much plastic and if they get the ball rolling and make some progress on this and awareness around the general population I would be happy.

Look at how recycling went from basically zero to everything in the space of ten years. 

There's far too many products covered in plastic.

 

👍 totally agree. There is nothing wrong with setting an aspirational goal. Not that long ago I chucked everything into the one bin and every week bought a slab of small bottles of water. Now I drink only tap water and have 4 recycling bins. In fact I drive everyone mad , pulling out all the shit that is getting put in the wrong bin. I even have labels on them and my family still cant work our which one paper goes in 🙄

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18 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

It's a lofty dream, and agree, it won't happen, but we use too much plastic and if they get the ball rolling and make some progress on this and awareness around the general population I would be happy.

Look at how recycling went from basically zero to everything in the space of ten years. 

There's far too many products covered in plastic.

 

Right OK, I think you are talking about single use plastic, which is different altogether to what I thought you meant. :ok:

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