gonzohiggy Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Just now, ErsatzThistle said: So should we wait until they are 26 or 27 before giving them five minutes at the end of a friendly. No. To hell with all that. Billy Gilmour must be given his senior debut next year. No we shouldn't. But that wouldn't be the right time would it? 🙄 If Billy Gilmour is playing regularly at a similar level to the players he is against then he will get in. Hopefully that is sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, gonzohiggy said: Billy's 18, for him to have had 10 caps he would have had to have been picked ahead of one of mcginn, mcgregor, McLean, Fleck, Armstrong, mctominay or Jack 10 times. As outstanding a prospect as he is, he hasn't done enough to be picked ahead of any of those guys. Michael Johnston is probably the closest 21s player just now imo. He needs regular football over the next few months, score and assist regularly then he'll be in and around the squad. You’re right, why should we do as other more successful countries do when our method delivers so much success. Buzzing to see Charlie Mulgrew & Stephen O’Donnell in the next squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, gonzohiggy said: No we shouldn't. But that wouldn't be the right time would it? 🙄 If Billy Gilmour is playing regularly at a similar level to the players he is against then he will get in. Hopefully that is sooner rather than later. Gilmour has played more for Chelsea than Ampadu and Ampadu has 10 caps now. He also plays for a country that is much better than us & qualifies for tournaments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzohiggy Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, ProudScot said: You’re right, why should we do as other more successful countries do when our method delivers so much success. Buzzing to see Charlie Mulgrew & Stephen O’Donnell in the next squad. Hold on. We were talking about gilmour. What have mulgrew and O'Donnell got to do with the price of bread? 4 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Gilmour has played more for Chelsea than Ampadu and Ampadu has 10 caps now. He also plays for a country that is much better than us & qualifies for tournaments. Im sorry but while his country might have qualified for a couple of tournaments there is no way they have more strength in depth than Scotland in midfield. Hence why ampadu is a regular and gilmour isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 minute ago, gonzohiggy said: Hold on. We were talking about gilmour. What have mulgrew and O'Donnell got to do with the price of bread? Im sorry but while his country might have qualified for a couple of tournaments there is no way they have more strength in depth than Scotland in midfield. Hence why ampadu is a regular and gilmour isn't. They have a better midfield than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Presumably we will play one or two friendlies next year. Let's not waste valuable time by giving mediocrity like Bates, Hanley, Russell or Shinnie any further caps. Instead, players such as Porteous, Gilmour, Johnston, Hornby and Ferguson should be given a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 minute ago, ErsatzThistle said: Presumably we will play one or two friendlies next year. Let's not waste valuable time by giving mediocrity like Bates, Hanley, Russell or Shinnie any further caps. Instead, players such as Porteous, Gilmour, Johnston, Hornby and Ferguson should be given a shot. Still think Bates can do a job for us. Was good for Rangers & been okay for Scotland. Agree on the others. Would add a collection of 2nd & 3rd choice keepers to that list too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzohiggy Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, ProudScot said: They have a better midfield than we do. OK, what top player is ampadu taking the place of then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzohiggy Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said: Presumably we will play one or two friendlies next year. Let's not waste valuable time by giving mediocrity like Bates, Hanley, Russell or Shinnie any further caps. Instead, players such as Porteous, Gilmour, Johnston, Hornby and Ferguson should be given a shot. That's what to do. Drop older guys we don't like, regardless of their position just to shoehorn young and in some cases completely unproven players into the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Still think Bates can do a job for us. Was good for Rangers & been okay for Scotland. Agree on the others. Would add a collection of 2nd & 3rd choice keepers to that list too. I hope that Ross Doohan and Robby McCrorie can get permanent transfers within the next twelve months. We really do need extra goalkeepers available. It would be sad if they were content to become third or four choice keepers at their parent clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, gonzohiggy said: OK, what top player is ampadu taking the place of then? The point being they call up young players in addition to their good ones & cap them. i think you’re missing the point being made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, gonzohiggy said: That's what to do. Drop older guys we don't like, regardless of their position just to shoehorn young and in some cases completely unproven players into the squad. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, gonzohiggy said: That's what to do. Drop older guys we don't like, regardless of their position just to shoehorn young and in some cases completely unproven players into the squad. I don't want four or five older players who are in serious decline forever getting named in squads just because they are "really nice lads" or are "great characters to have around". Be unsentimental. Boot them out. Get the young lads in. Edited November 30, 2019 by ErsatzThistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzohiggy Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said: I don't want four or five older players who are in serious decline forever getting named in squads just because they are "really nice lads" or are "great characters to have around". Be unsentimental. Boot them out. Get the young lads in. Neither do I. But I also don't want a trial and error approach to discovering young players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzohiggy Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, ProudScot said: The point being they call up young players in addition to their good ones & cap them. i think you’re missing the point being made. I don't think I am. I actually generally agree with the point being made. Where our opinions differ is the apparent disregard for whether a particular young player actually deserves to be called up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, gonzohiggy said: Don't disagree that when the time is right we integrate the youngsters. A bit of context to the players you mention - gomez may not be a regular but he's played 80 odd senior games and played in the champions league final. O'connor effectively played for Ireland b team against new zealand. Our best young players just now wouldn't get in the team, when they are playing well enough they will. Gomez was only an example off the top of my head. But I'm sure Southgate took players to the World Cup that weren't regular starters. Maybe someone else can remember. Anyway, that wasn't my point. I didn't say Gilmour or Johnstone should be in the first 11. No way. But they could easily fit into a 23+ man squad. Train with their future colleagues and familiarise themselves with styles and tactics. There is no downside to it, other than reducing the strength of the U21s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, gonzohiggy said: Neither do I. But I also don't want a trial and error approach to discovering young players. Well I don't see whats wrong with that. I don't want the managers good ole' boys, who are well past it, still getting named in squads well into their thirties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Not picking more experienced players because they are old is just as moronic as solely picking up and coming players just because they are young. It is like the dumb and dumber of managerial strategies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, thplinth said: Not picking more experienced players because they are old is just as moronic as solely picking up and coming players just because they are young. It is like the dumb and dumber of managerial strategies. Exactly. What about picking the best players to fit your team, regardless of their age, hair colour, or favourite movie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, thplinth said: Not picking more experienced players because they are old is just as moronic as solely picking up and coming players just because they are young. It is like the dumb and dumber of managerial strategies. What if they are old, highly unlikely to play and have been in serious decline for their club sides but get called up because they are "nice lads" and "always turn up for the games". I don't care about that. They should make way for the young players keen to get on and make an impact and who have their whole careers ahead of them. Should Billy Gilmour and Ryan Porteous wait until they are 27 for their debuts ? 3 minutes ago, mrniaboc said: Exactly. What about picking the best players to fit your team, regardless of their age, hair colour, or favourite movie? Some people want their old favourites kept on no matter what under the Yogi Hughes moron logic of "he's a great character to have around". Edited November 30, 2019 by ErsatzThistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Armstrong not even in the squad for Southampton - injured? Not been a great move for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, gonzohiggy said: Hold on. We were talking about gilmour. What have mulgrew and O'Donnell got to do with the price of bread? Im sorry but while his country might have qualified for a couple of tournaments there is no way they have more strength in depth than Scotland in midfield. Hence why ampadu is a regular and gilmour isn't. Wales midfield options for last international: Aaron Ramsey Joe Allen Harry Wilson Daniel James David Brooks would've been in squad aswell but injured currently. Actually a good example there is Dylan Levitt. Only turned 19 over the latest international break. No games for Man. United yet (can't remember if he played in Astana in the week) and hasn't been loaned out but Wales getting him involved. Very similar case to Gilmour when you look at it. I think given Billy is on the fringes I'd imagine Chelsea will loan him out in January, either to Holland or a championship team. Hopefully he can start playing week in week out and be a new option for March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said: Presumably we will play one or two friendlies next year. Let's not waste valuable time by giving mediocrity like Bates, Hanley, Russell or Shinnie any further caps. Instead, players such as Porteous, Gilmour, Johnston, Hornby and Ferguson should be given a shot. Don't think there's any time before the March games but there will be games in May and June, either in preparation for euros or playing teams who have qualified for the tournament so yes desperately need to put a young squad out. Given it's end of the season you know a fair few seniors will call off like the South America trip so no excuse really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazmidd Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said: Wales midfield options for last international: Aaron Ramsey Joe Allen Harry Wilson Daniel James David Brooks would've been in squad aswell but injured currently. Actually a good example there is Dylan Levitt. Only turned 19 over the latest international break. No games for Man. United yet (can't remember if he played in Astana in the week) and hasn't been loaned out but Wales getting him involved. Very similar case to Gilmour when you look at it. I think given Billy is on the fringes I'd imagine Chelsea will loan him out in January, either to Holland or a championship team. Hopefully he can start playing week in week out and be a new option for March. Pretty sure Terry Taylor got called up for a squad gathering not long ago, young boy born in Aberdeen, signed for Wolves from the Don's not long ago. Missed the boat there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Armstrong not even in the squad for Southampton - injured? Not been a great move for him. Armstrong was out with a hamstring injury today. Mark Hughes used to play him fairly regularly. However Hasenhüttl seldom gave him a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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