thorbotnic Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Also, if you think the SNP were hard done by, the Greens got 1 MP per 285k votes - and UKIP none at all for nearly 1 million. The party which wins biggest out of FPTP... the DUP. 8 MPs at 21000 votes each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I think the SNP have to get the message out that they will *not* seek another referendum in the short term, and make the message very clear that the purpose of electing them in 2015 is to press for Devo Max in Westminster. As much as I don't like gradualism it is the only way the SNP can hope to pull in the votes they need to take as many constituencies as possible. However that strategy is only going to work if the outcome looks like being a narrow minority for the Conservatives. And we have already seen that the Daily Record has started banging its big 'Labour are the only party who can keep the Tories out' drum that so sirenly calls Scots to vote Labour at Westminster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I think you mean Dundee West? Dundee East is already SNP. Sorry, I meant Dundee West, of course (although it would obviously be very helpful if the SNP could hold onto Dundee East too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 McGovern will be out of a job in Dundee West, and of course the SNP will retain Dundee East. In saying that I was very disappointed with the way Dundee voted in the referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopyhill Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 McGovern will be out of a job in Dundee West, and of course the SNP will retain Dundee East. In saying that I was very disappointed with the way Dundee voted in the referendum. Disappointed in the turnout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Disappointed in the turnout? Yes, but mainly disappointed that only 57% voted Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 A big YES coalition gain in MP's with a Tory government in place would re open the old SNP are the Tartan Tories, only consolation is that Labour will be so much of a busted flush it wont have same impact. Looking at who would be Millibands successor, there does not seem to be an heir apparent other than maybe Andy Burnham? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of Paisley Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Thought Alan Johnson would have been a highly popular choice. Is he still on the go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilser Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Thought Alan Johnson would have been a highly popular choice. Is he still on the go? I think he's winding down - he's on This Week a lot and has just published the second instalment of his memoirs. Can't see him wanting to take it on. An interesting guy - genuinely working class, worked as a postman for years and got involved in politics through the trade union movement. His new book (I posted on the topic last week) was serialised on the radio and he mentions delivering mail to Dorney Wood in the 1970s when Merlyn Rees as Home Secretary had it as his grace and favour residence - Johnson himself became Home Secretary 35 years or so later. Someone like him really has no place in the Labour Party compared to the massed ranks of feckers who've never had what could be described as a 'job'. Edited September 30, 2014 by neilser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 A big YES coalition gain in MP's with a Tory government in place would re open the old SNP are the Tartan Tories, only consolation is that Labour will be so much of a busted flush it wont have same impact. Looking at who would be Millibands successor, there does not seem to be an heir apparent other than maybe Andy Burnham? If the SNP get in bed with the Tories they will be fecked. A price worth paying though to get genuine devo max and move us a step closer to Scotland's natural state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintlyscot Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Their will be no getting into bed with the tories. This election will be fought on trust and standing up for Scotland - 2 standing stones that we have a VERY strong hand with. With every passing day we are emerging stronger as the unionist parties are shown to be a shower of self serving liars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 If the SNP get in bed with the Tories they will be fecked. A price worth paying though to get genuine devo max and move us a step closer to Scotland's natural state. Struggle to see Scotland getting genuine Devo max, unless there's another referndeum, Westminster at all costs will stop attempt to stop Scotland controlling it's own economy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Just curious but could the SNP call an early election in Scotland? If so how early? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopyhill Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Common Weal have a decent outline plan 2015, 2016 then 2020 referendum. I think this has to be more than just an SNP strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I agree with that plan on principle but if there is a majority of independence supporting MSP's then a 2020 referendum is too late. That would be a 4 year campaign which is too long and people couldn't go through that again. 2017 would be my preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbotnic Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I agree with that plan on principle but if there is a majority of independence supporting MSP's then a 2020 referendum is too late. That would be a 4 year campaign which is too long and people couldn't go through that again. 2017 would be my preference. I can't see Westminster agreeing to another referendum only 3 years after the last one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 You dont need them to agree, hold the referendum, win, declare UDI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopyhill Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I agree with that plan on principle but if there is a majority of independence supporting MSP's then a 2020 referendum is too late. That would be a 4 year campaign which is too long and people couldn't go through that again. 2017 would be my preference. The idea is that we run a low level campaign as we are now, this gives us time to work on creating a new bank, currency issues etc until May 2020 then stand on an Independence ticket with a referendum in September and out by December. A very short time between election and referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbotnic Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 You dont need them to agree, hold the referendum, win, declare UDI The referendum would be lost by a bigger margin than the last one if that was the plan. Are the Scottish people who were too afraid to choose independence with the Edinburgh agreement in place going to go for UDI? And only 3 years after the last vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilScotsman Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 The referendum would be lost by a bigger margin than the last one if that was the plan. Are the Scottish people who were too afraid to choose independence with the Edinburgh agreement in place going to go for UDI? And only 3 years after the last vote? Without being able to play the 'More Powers' card (since they're already watering it down/miring it in tribal Westminster politicking) the 'No' campaign would have nothing to offer. Especially after 5/6 more years of Tory attacks on the NHS, Welfare State and their continued privatisation of anything they can get their grubby little hands on. Unless, of course, Labour win next year's GE in which case everything will be fine and dandy........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 The referendum would be lost by a bigger margin than the last one if that was the plan. Are the Scottish people who were too afraid to choose independence with the Edinburgh agreement in place going to go for UDI? And only 3 years after the last vote? Agree there. As mentioned before all talk of an imminent referendum should be canned until opinion polls are consistently showing 60% plus in favour of independence.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbotnic Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Without being able to play the 'More Powers' card (since they're already watering it down/miring it in tribal Westminster politicking) the 'No' campaign would have nothing to offer. Especially after 5/6 more years of Tory attacks on the NHS, Welfare State and their continued privatisation of anything they can get their grubby little hands on. Unless, of course, Labour win next year's GE in which case everything will be fine and dandy........ All of the big doubts (currency etc) will merely be amplified if the UK govt hasn't agreed to respect the result of the referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilScotsman Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 All of the big doubts (currency etc) will merely be amplified if the UK govt hasn't agreed to respect the result of the referendum. It isn't looking like it's going to respect the result of this one (more powers in the event of a 'No' vote). I don't see how they could not 'agree' to respect the result of a vote for self-determination in any case. See Spain's current desperation to stop the Catalonian referendum even happening as they know they'll be crucified if they don't accept the 'Yes' vote there. They "ruled out" a currency union for this one, so the currency options will be the same in any case. We'll also know exactly what their strategy is and be able to plan accordingly, and the grassroots organisations don't seem to be in a hurry to go anywhere, so hopefully will still be about come the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 At my local SNP branch meeting, usually about 15 strong, the attendance last night was about 200. Astonishing. What was the agenda and what was discussed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 What was the agenda and what was discussed? They discussed their astonishment at the astonishing attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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