ErsatzThistle Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Looking at our squad for France 98 I was thinking: Did players such as Derek Whyte, Scott Gemmill, Darren Jackson and Tosh McKinlay really merit a place in the squad ? Nine players aged 30 or over and only 3 players aged under 25. Did that not alarm a few at the time ? Hearts had had a good season in 1997-98 just prior to the World Cup and yet only Davie Weir got a call up. With hindsight, should (then) young players such as Neil McCann, Gary Naysmith and Colin Cameron have been given a chance in our squad for France 98 ? Just interested to read folks opinions on it, I was a bit young at the time to take it all in ! Were there any other contentious selections in other Scotland World Cup and Euro squads from the past ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davied14 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) Darren Jackson certainly did. The others probably not, Cameron and McCoist should have been in the squad. Only an Excuse had a sketch with Tosh McKinlay saying that his call up to the Scotland squad was a great honour for both him and his club, Celtic Reserves. Edited September 25, 2014 by Davied14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Jackson had a good season at Celtic and was one of the better players in the qualifiers (formed a good partnership with Kevin Gallagher) so was worthy of his place in the squad. Derek Whyte had been in great form with Aberdeen after signing just after new year and helped patch up a leaky defence, and though was not in contention to play at the finals, was good enough to find his way into the squad. There was maybe a element of Paw Broon taking his favourites regardless of club form or not doing anything in a Scotland shirt, which varied greatly with what the fans wanted. Before the finals Brown had said that it was the end of the road with this squad and would go with youth for the euros (but never really happened). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JECK Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Remember looking into this years ago thinking the same. my view is the quality and number of youth players breaking through was dire added to the era of the old firm dominating with foreigners mainly (laudraup, albertz, di canio, van hooidonk, cadete etc) added to only mcallister and hendry operating at the top level of english football regularly. its nae wonder we were on the whole pi*h at the time. Then all those older players got to old eventually and the result was vogts was left with stevie crawford, stevie thompson and the likes. again, its no wonder we were pish for years. at least there is some focus on youth development in the last few years, it beyond overdue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 There was Colin Calderwood also who was a first team player at Spurs, but for some reason Scotland fans never took him to heart (think a lot of people still felt that it should be Gough and Hendry that made up the Scotland defence and this never really took to Calderwood though him and Hendry were good together). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JECK Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 was paw broon not always staunchly 3 centre backs? was hendry/calderwood and another. Gough was obviously a miss at the time and was a whole other story, however even he was ancient around that tim (mid to late 30s surely) Special mention to John Collins and Lambert who were probably our best players of that era. Unfortunately surrounded by relative dross at the time and as mentioned there was fk all youth breaking through. Would Fletcher and Mcfadden been given a chance at either old firm club in the late 90s? not sure they would have. makes you wonder if there was others who could have had great careers but were never given a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 convinced Scott Gemmill only got a look in cos of his dad (and that goal, at that) team was an odd mix at the time ; durie being the only real out and out striker ; kevin gallacher usually more wide ,, often employed thru middle (& v lightweight) darren jackson did as well as could be expected in the national set up tosh mckinlay was a poor mans tom boyd neil mccann got lots of games when signing at ibrox bit like billy dodds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 convinced Scott Gemmill only got a look in cos of his dad (and that goal, at that) Gemmill to me was a good club player, but not cut out for international football (and was far to often compared to his dad). In terms of a club career, he actually has not all that bad a career (played in cup finals, was a regular in a side that finished 3rd in the premiership and made the UEFA cup quarter finals etc) but never really got given a chance at international level (as we already had McStay, McAllister, Jess, McKinley, Lambert etc all ahead of him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnpauls Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Our 98 Squad was the weakest we've ever sent to a tournament in my memory (I'm too young to recall the 50s World Cups). Having said that, there weren't many contenders for places at the time amongst those left out. Never a Jackson fan, but I agree he'd been surprisingly effective in qualifying. There wee always some issues with any squad: 86 rankled with me as the utterly useless for us Archibald and Sharp nabbed strikers' places, while Mo Johnston, Andy Gray and Ally McCoist were left at home. The lack of Gray was also controversial in 82 and 78. In 90, I recall being angered by Nicholas having been left out, but Dumbo Alan McInally was taken along. Most of my gripes were with decisions taken from among those in the squads: McLeod was clearly being loyal to guys who were past it, off form or off their heads in 78, Stein bottled it when it came to decisions at the back in 82, Fergie made some really bizarre judgement calls in 86, as did Roxburgh in 90. Pa Broon, with the weakest pool ever, actually probably did as well as they were capable of with the people available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girvanTA Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I remember I got a knockback for a derek whyte autograph at ibrox v denmark friendly, oh how innocent was I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyHead Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Our 98 Squad was the weakest we've ever sent to a tournament in my memory (I'm too young to recall the 50s World Cups). Having said that, there weren't many contenders for places at the time amongst those left out. Never a Jackson fan, but I agree he'd been surprisingly effective in qualifying. There wee always some issues with any squad: 86 rankled with me as the utterly useless for us Archibald and Sharp nabbed strikers' places, while Mo Johnston, Andy Gray and Ally McCoist were left at home. The lack of Gray was also controversial in 82 and 78. In 90, I recall being angered by Nicholas having been left out, but Dumbo Alan McInally was taken along. Most of my gripes were with decisions taken from among those in the squads: McLeod was clearly being loyal to guys who were past it, off form or off their heads in 78, Stein bottled it when it came to decisions at the back in 82, Fergie made some really bizarre judgement calls in 86, as did Roxburgh in 90. Pa Broon, with the weakest pool ever, actually probably did as well as they were capable of with the people available. Agree with you. Brown was pragmatic and really did get more out of his squads than just the sum of the parts. I wish he'd been in charge when the quality of the players was better overall. No complaints about 74, but 78 was an appalling waste. 82 was unlucky up to a point but, again, agreed, Stein never quite was firm enough on his preferred defence. Then again, if someone had picked up Chivadze for the equaliser as I was yelling at them to do from behind the goal we might still have got through. 86 was a gruesome group, maybe we did as much as we could do, though obviously the Uruguay game still rankles - they were just a bit too streetwise for us. 90 was Roxburgh, the most dismal miserable petty dull man ever to take charge of an international football team. The only person in the whole world who didn't know that if we tried to defend our way to a 0-0 v Brazil then we'd lose 1-0 to a late goal was Roxburgh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Our 98 Squad was the weakest we've ever sent to a tournament in my memory (I'm too young to recall the 50s World Cups). Having said that, there weren't many contenders for places at the time amongst those left out. Never a Jackson fan, but I agree he'd been surprisingly effective in qualifying. Nobody really of note had been left out of the 98 squad. McCoist had been pretty ineffective in all the qualifiers, and though had a pretty quiet season with Rangers, you really could toss a coin between taking him and Scott Booth. Would McCoist have had the same effect at the WC as he did at Euro 96? Probably against Norway, but he was well past it for putting in against Brazil and Morocco. Always suspected that he just pushed Brown one time to many and the refusal to play in the Belarus game then change his mind at the last minute was probably the last straw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davied14 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 We took 7 centre halves in the squad, which is ridiculous. Hendry, Calderood & Boyd were first choice with Dailly, Whyte, Elliott & Weir in there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 We took 7 centre halves in the squad, which is ridiculous. Hendry, Calderood & Boyd were first choice with Dailly, Whyte, Elliott & Weir in there too. Calderwood got crocked in the Norway game, so were one down almost straight away.... Dailly was versatile at the time as had gone from striker at Dundee United to midfielder to defender in the space of a couple of years and was able to play right across the back. Weir I would have taken anyway, Whyte was being rewarded for showing up time and time again and never getting a game and Elliott was called up on the basis he plays in the Premiership rather than being good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 We took 7 centre halves in the squad, which is ridiculous. Hendry, Calderood & Boyd were first choice with Dailly, Whyte, Elliott & Weir in there too. Imagine if we had to pick 7 centre halves now from our current pool! Grant Hanley, Russell Martin, 3 other mediocre players with Jimmy Krankie and Lulu making up the 6th and 7th spots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J o h n Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 90 was Roxburgh, the most dismal miserable petty dull man ever to take charge of an international football team. The only person in the whole world who didn't know that if we tried to defend our way to a 0-0 v Brazil then we'd lose 1-0 to a late goal was Roxburgh 90 was before my time but surely Levein takes that accolade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 90 was before my time but surely Levein takes that accolade? Levein is Mr Happy compared to Andy.... Came to give a coaching session at my school in 1989 and he sent half the team to sleep just going on and on and on about tactics to 5/6 year old kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Nobody really of note had been left out of the 98 squad. McCoist had been pretty ineffective in all the qualifiers, and though had a pretty quiet season with Rangers, you really could toss a coin between taking him and Scott Booth. Would McCoist have had the same effect at the WC as he did at Euro 96? Probably against Norway, but he was well past it for putting in against Brazil and Morocco. Always suspected that he just pushed Brown one time to many and the refusal to play in the Belarus game then change his mind at the last minute was probably the last straw. He didn't have that quiet a season. 16 goals from 26 games is a good return, including a goal in the Scottish Cup Final just before the squad was announced. Scott Booth had barely kicked a ball in Dortmund. McCoist should absolutely have been picked ahead of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 He didn't have that quiet a season. 16 goals from 26 games is a good return, including a goal in the Scottish Cup Final just before the squad was announced. Scott Booth had barely kicked a ball in Dortmund. McCoist should absolutely have been picked ahead of him. True, but wasn't he mostly used as a sub as Negri and Durie were the preferred partnership and only got a decent run when Negri picked up his "injury" in the 2nd half of the season? And most those goals came in cups and the early rounds in Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Nobody really of note had been left out of the 98 squad. John McGinlay would have been a shout for that squad, but Jackson had a good season that year so was given preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 John McGinlay would have been a shout for that squad, but Jackson had a good season that year so was given preference. Wasn't he injured and just had a disastrous season at Bradford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Wasn't he injured and just had a disastrous season at Bradford Honestly can't remember, you're probably right. He and Jackson played together a couple of times in qualification IIRC. McGinlay scored v Sweden at Ibrox, which often gets overlooked because of Jim Leighton's heroics that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Honestly can't remember, you're probably right. . Sure he says in his book that he knew he was not fit for the transfer, but the Bradford chairman offered him silly money to sign, where he only played about half a dozen games before being released and got the Bradford manager the sack because of it. Think he was unlucky with injuries as he filled in for McCoist in the Euro qualifiers before his return, scoring a couple of goals, only to pick up a injury before the finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JECK Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Poor sally, he iways wanteed to meet lady di.i agree though he should have went to france howevr that team had absolutely nae creative spark so i'd doubt he'd make much of a contribution.the game v norway was constant long baws up tae duries coupon and the burlwy goal was a long ball.did we create anything v the morrocons?shocking team looking back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 Thanks for all the replies guys, some interesting feedback Did Craig Brown ever give a reason why he was so reluctant to trust in youth at times ?Why wasn't Paul Lambert picked for Euro 96 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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