ShedTA Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: No I am comparing the Six Nations to European Championship Finals in fooitball as that is really what they are in Rugby Union. I am not having any dig at rugby by the way. I enjoy watching it and support Scotland as i do football or any other team or Scottish spirtsman or woman. Murrayfield is a great stadium and the home of Scottish rugby. Just as Hampden is the home of Scottish football. And I will re-iterate again it is certainly not a shite hole. It has its faults but it is the esteemed home of Scottish football. Craig this is where the argument is flawed. Italy a country of 60m use the Olympic stadium in rome (A football stadium of 2 teams) for their rugby. It's also the home of their national football team although they also move games around. But in Scotland we all apparently need separate stadiums we cant afford just to avoid giving any football money to rugby. It's a childish outlook and makes no economic sense whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 minute ago, ShedTA said: Craig this is where the argument is flawed. Italy a country of 60m use the Olympic stadium in rome (A football stadium of 2 teams) for their rugby. It's also the home of their national football team although they also move games around. But in Scotland we all apparently need separate stadiums we cant afford just to avoid giving any football money to rugby. It's a childish outlook and makes no economic sense whatsoever. No it has nothing to do with childishness. Murrayfield and Hampden have been national stadia for over a century and it has been a model that works just fine. I couldn't give a stuff what Italy do. That is their outlook. View points on both sides aired here are wrong. Rugby is not just for snobs and the internationals are well supported. On the other side of the coin Hampden is not a shite hole and is the home of Scottish football which should be valued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
er yir macaroon Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 35 minutes ago, ShedTA said: Ok well we will gave to just agree to disagree. I think it's a stupid waste of much needed cash. To have 4 stadiums of 50k plus in Scotland is madness as it is. The cash for redevelopment will not come from the SFA, at least not much. Sponsors aren’t going to invest in grass roots football, they want a name and prestige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 And in any case Murrayfield was custom-buil t for rugby. You cannot shoe-horn stadia like tat into being multi-purpoise. It is far easier to turn a football stadia like that in Rome into a multi-purpose venue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedTA Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 29 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: No it has nothing to do with childishness. Murrayfield and Hampden have been national stadia for over a century and it has been a model that works just fine. I couldn't give a stuff what Italy do. That is their outlook. View points on both sides aired here are wrong. Rugby is not just for snobs and the internationals are well supported. On the other side of the coin Hampden is not a shite hole and is the home of Scottish football which should be valued. A model that works? And you don't give a stuff what Italy do? Cos like they haven't won much at football? Must be all that stadium sharing they do. Honestly it's viewpoints like yours that hold the game back here. We have one of the most passionate football supports in Europe who turn out in amazing numbers every week who have been unfairly starved of national success for decades. We need a radical forward thinking organisation to transform our game, not "It's always been this way" pish. And that's my last comment on it - I really give up with this debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, ShedTA said: A model that works? And you don't give a stuff what Italy do? Cos like they haven't won much at football? Must be all that stadium sharing they do. Honestly it's viewpoints like yours that hold the game back here. We have one of the most passionate football supports in Europe who turn out in amazing numbers every week who have been unfairly starved of national success for decades. We need a radical forward thinking organisation to transform our game, not "It's always been this way" pish. And that's my last comment on it - I really give up with this debate. FFS Hampden Park is not th e teason we no longer qualify. Best you do give up on the debate if that is your thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 In the end, there really wasn't much of a decision to make. As soon the SFA found out they could buy the stadium for less than 3 years rent money they would have been daft not to. If somebody offered you that deal on a house that your were very happy to keep on living in, what would you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich NATA Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if someone else has already stated this, but rugby at the Stadio Olimpico is a fairly recent move... They used to play at the far smaller Stadio Flaminio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rich NATA said: Haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if someone else has already stated this, but rugby at the Stadio Olimpico is a fairly recent move... They used to play at the far smaller Stadio Flaminio. Yes, that was their home after joining the 6 Nations, but grew tired waiting for promised reconstruction and moved into Olimpico a few years back. rugby in Italy has really taken off in recent years, when they first joined the 6 Nations places like Genoa and Venice were the hot bed of rugby in Italy, and talk at time was team would base themselves there, but decided on Rome, and finally paying off. they have even played games in the San Siro recently. Edited September 12, 2018 by wanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted September 13, 2018 Author Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) There's a long game at play here. Clearly very little will be done to the stadium prior to Euro2020. But a World Cup bid for 2030 is likely to be happening within the next four years, and if succesful there will be the opportunity for major investment. Edited September 13, 2018 by Toepoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitelaw Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) Italy is a pretty poor example to use as : 1 - they're a far bigger country population-wise so most games would get better attendance potentially! 2 - They hosted the '90 World Cup so pretty much every town/city has a ridiculously over sized stadium and can host the national team and the large support that normally follows it. Can any of you remember watch Italian football on C4 every Sunday? These stadiums were empty every week as they were too big for the clubs to fill. FFS our game against them in Bari was in a huge 50K+ stadium and their club team was in Serie B!! 3 - Most of Italy's stadiums are even worse than Hampden with massive areas behind goals! Edited September 13, 2018 by kwhitelaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 13 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said: FFS Hampden Park is not th e teason we no longer qualify. Best you do give up on the debate if that is your thought. That’s not what he was saying. It’s symptomatic of the attitudes in the game in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 19 minutes ago, biffer said: That’s not what he was saying. It’s symptomatic of the attitudes in the game in Scotland. End of the day Shed TA hates Hampden - his prerogative and his opinion. But his opinion does not make it the right one. The other options on the table were take the games to other stadia such as Ibrox and Parkhead - well that is not going to help our national game. It will just serve to syphon more money off to the Old Fim who will get richer and widen the financial and footballing gap to other teams. And then where would Cup Finals get played? Parkhead and a home tie for Celtic if they get there? Ibrox and a home tie for Rangers if they get there? For smaller internationals (as we saw the other night) even the likes of Easter Road would have struggled to meet the demand for tickets for that match so would the majority of other options. The other option was Murrayfield where money from ticket sales presumably a share would go out of football to the SRU - again how is that helping Scottish football. Plus lets remember Murrayfield is custom-built for rugby not football - square pegs in round holes and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I don't often defend the SFA because most to the time they are useless idiots but this deal is fantastic business. They managed to buy a ready built, top tier (according to UEFA anyway) stadium for £2.5 million. Deal of the century. I would like to know what strings are attached to the Haughey/Hunter money though. Do they have links with Queens Park? Does this deal given them special influence with the SFA? Is there anything dodgy going on here? Is there anything in this deal to benefit City Facilities Management Holdings Ltd? The deal just sounds a wee bit too good to be as straightforward as is being reported. I've just switched from optimistic mode to cynical mode in the space of typing that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I would have preferred Murrayfield purely because it is closer to my hoose, but otherwise I think everything else is pretty similar. If the SFA could have bought a half share of Murrayfield for £2.5 million it would have been worth considering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion Rampant Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Orraloon said: I don't often defend the SFA because most to the time they are useless idiots but this deal is fantastic business. They managed to buy a ready built, top tier (according to UEFA anyway) stadium for £2.5 million. Deal of the century. It's an unbelievable deal, when the option was to pay £300k+ per year in rent for the rest of time then it really is no surprise that they're staying at Hampden. Once the initial payment has been offset in rent that would have been paid, there will be more money available that could be funnelled into grassroots football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted September 13, 2018 Author Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Lion Rampant said: It's an unbelievable deal, when the option was to pay £300k+ per year in rent for the rest of time then it really is no surprise that they're staying at Hampden. Once the initial payment has been offset in rent that would have been paid, there will be more money available that could be funnelled into grassroots football Presumably a chunk of that £300k goes towards the running costs of the stadium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion Rampant Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Toepoke said: Presumably a chunk of that £300k goes towards the running costs of the stadium? Possibly, but I would expect that when the SFA take ownnership of the stadium then any of the SFA rent that previously went towards the running costs would have to be made up from elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, ShedTA said: That's fair enough to a point. So we are going to spunk 10s of millions on another stadium when we already have 3 more than big enough to use. Given the state of the national game that's criminal. Redevelop the ends, partially paid for by opening new revenue streams such as hotels, offices and shops. Hampden has a massive footprint, plenty of space for developments. Do what the FA did and borrow against future revenues from such as concerts. How about getting American football in? Also - let's make the ends two tiered and safe standing. How about doing a switcheroo and getting Glasgow Rugby in for big matches, assuming they have any? Edited September 13, 2018 by adamntg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Orraloon said: I don't often defend the SFA because most to the time they are useless idiots but this deal is fantastic business. They managed to buy a ready built, top tier (according to UEFA anyway) stadium for £2.5 million. Deal of the century. I would like to know what strings are attached to the Haughey/Hunter money though. Do they have links with Queens Park? Does this deal given them special influence with the SFA? Is there anything dodgy going on here? Is there anything in this deal to benefit City Facilities Management Holdings Ltd? The deal just sounds a wee bit too good to be as straightforward as is being reported. I've just switched from optimistic mode to cynical mode in the space of typing that out. Haughey said on the radio yesterday that there were absolutely no strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, adamntg said: Redevelop the ends, partially paid for by opening new revenue streams such as hotels, offices and shops. Hampden has a massive footprint, plenty of space for developments. Do what the FA did and borrow against future revenues from such as concerts. How about getting American football in? Also - let's make the ends two tiered and safe standing. How about doing a switcheroo and getting Glasgow Rugby in for big matches, assuming they have any? Basically that's the proposition that got the SRU into massive debt. Both Hampden and Murrayfield are only full on a handful of occasions every year, so they need other events to make money. I suppose it comes down to whether or not you think the SFA is a competent organisation who could run something of this nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Word has it that the best way to turn the stadium into a cash making site is to build adjoining hotel/shops/restaurants which would generate cash all year round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 21 hours ago, ShedTA said: A model that works? And you don't give a stuff what Italy do? Cos like they haven't won much at football? Must be all that stadium sharing they do. Honestly it's viewpoints like yours that hold the game back here. We have one of the most passionate football supports in Europe who turn out in amazing numbers every week who have been unfairly starved of national success for decades. We need a radical forward thinking organisation to transform our game, not "It's always been this way" pish. And that's my last comment on it - I really give up with this debate. if you think hampden is shite you've obviously never watched football in Rome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, adamntg said: Haughey said on the radio yesterday that there were absolutely no strings. That'll be awright then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Toepoke said: Presumably a chunk of that £300k goes towards the running costs of the stadium? 4 hours ago, Lion Rampant said: It's an unbelievable deal, when the option was to pay £300k+ per year in rent for the rest of time then it really is no surprise that they're staying at Hampden. Once the initial payment has been offset in rent that would have been paid, there will be more money available that could be funnelled into grassroots football I’m pretty sure the SFA pay around £900,000 per year. £300,000 goes to Queen’s Park and the rest goes to the upkeep of the stadium. If this is correct (cannae mind where I read it) then the SFA will be potentially saving £300,000 per year which can go into grass roots football (or more than likely bonuses for the fat cats and junkets abroad). Not to mention the fact that the SFA will now get the lion’s share of any concert/event money. It really is a good deal for the SFA and Scottish Football, with the possible exception of Queen’s Park when the money runs out. Whether or not major redevelopment will happen any time soon is another matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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