biffer Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 The baha'i faith has some very interesting concepts on religion and science. The harmony of science and religion is one of the fundamental principles of the Bahá’í Faith, which teaches that religion, without science, soon degenerates into superstition and fanaticism, while science without religion becomes merely the instrument of crude materialism. Science has enabled society to separate fact from conjecture. Further, scientific capabilities—of observing, of measuring, of rigorously testing ideas—have allowed humanity to construct a coherent understanding of the laws and processes governing physical reality, as well as to gain insights into human conduct and the life of society. I've not looked into it deeply, but this apparently leads to a view of science as a kind of progressive, ongoing revelation, where key scientists are to an extent minor prophets, agents of God bringing enlightenment to humanity. Also interesting is that they don't believe their faith to be the ultimate faith, they think it will be overtaken in the future, as all previous religions have, as they are all manifestations of the ultimate truth, being revealed slowly over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 4 hours ago, biffer said: The baha'i faith has some very interesting concepts on religion and science. I've not looked into it deeply, but this apparently leads to a view of science as a kind of progressive, ongoing revelation, where key scientists are to an extent minor prophets, agents of God bringing enlightenment to humanity. Also interesting is that they don't believe their faith to be the ultimate faith, they think it will be overtaken in the future, as all previous religions have, as they are all manifestations of the ultimate truth, being revealed slowly over time. Sounds interesting will have to look into it more. I do find it annoying when folk see religion and science as opposites that can't go together such as with my point about creation vs evolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 7 hours ago, biffer said: The baha'i faith has some very interesting concepts on religion and science. I've not looked into it deeply, but this apparently leads to a view of science as a kind of progressive, ongoing revelation, where key scientists are to an extent minor prophets, agents of God bringing enlightenment to humanity. Also interesting is that they don't believe their faith to be the ultimate faith, they think it will be overtaken in the future, as all previous religions have, as they are all manifestations of the ultimate truth, being revealed slowly over time. I think you'll find if you reference our resident oracle on such issues you'll find that this sort of thing is filed under "Satan's work". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 15 minutes ago, Eisegerwind said: I think you'll find if you reference our resident oracle on such issues you'll find that this sort of thing is filed under "Satan's work". Equally, he says that Satan's work is intended to cause division and confusion, and to drag mankind backwards away from truth. Kind of sounds like someone on here but I can't think who... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty CTA Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 On 2/20/2017 at 10:46 PM, OLAS said: Telling people they'll go to hell is just a dogmatic scare story. It's brain-washed tripe and it should bother most right-minded people. It's not meant to be a 'scare story'. It's just a loving 'heads up' letting you know that even though our earthly bodies die, our spirits go on eternally, and that because Jesus conquered the grave, we can too. (Just sharing the 'Good News'. ) On 2/21/2017 at 7:23 AM, Toepoke said: Having been brought up by a very Kirk-ish family in my experience the Bible is cherrypicked by ministers when deciding on the direction of their praise on any particular Sunday. I would say the vast majority of Church of Scotland congregation members do not believe in creationism for example. Wolves in the pulpit. On 2/21/2017 at 6:45 PM, Ally Bongo said: Slavery was motivated by religious ideals Enlighten us. On 2/21/2017 at 6:45 PM, Ally Bongo said: And whilst prohibition of contraception is not part of all religions you have to take account that 33% of the Global Population are Christians and Roman Catholicism makes up half that number. Bible-believing Christianity doesn't prohibit contraception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty CTA Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 On 2/24/2017 at 11:29 PM, OLAS said: Proves nothing. I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just telling you Truth. On 2/25/2017 at 5:19 AM, Ally Bongo said: Deep down you know this answer Think You said that my post was 'utter nonsense' and then offered nothing against my point. On 2/27/2017 at 6:43 AM, Parklife said: You actually believe this... I live it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty CTA Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 13 hours ago, biffer said: I've not looked into it deeply, but this apparently leads to a view of science as a kind of progressive, ongoing revelation... I see today's 'science' as a religion. 13 hours ago, biffer said: ...where key scientists are to an extent minor prophets... Dawkins and the like are certainly 'worshipped'. 13 hours ago, biffer said: ..agents of God bringing enlightenment to humanity. Lucifer ('the light bringer') is the 'agent' who does that. 13 hours ago, biffer said: Also interesting is that they don't believe their faith to be the ultimate faith, they think it will be overtaken in the future, as all previous religions have, as they are all manifestations of the ultimate truth, being revealed slowly over time. It's all so self-serving. "As long as we are alive then we are the leading edge." 9 hours ago, hunchy said: Sounds interesting will have to look into it more. I do find it annoying when folk see religion and science as opposites that can't go together such as with my point about creation vs evolution 'Science' always plays catch-up to God. (Never the other way around.) 5 hours ago, Eisegerwind said: I think you'll find if you reference our resident oracle on such issues you'll find that this sort of thing is filed under "Satan's work". You see... Despite your aggression, you can't help but learn. (God is soooo great!) The official title of this statue of Lucifer built by French freemasons is "Liberty Enlightening The World". And yes... It's male... (Think 'Elvis'... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty CTA Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 5 hours ago, biffer said: Equally, he says that Satan's work is intended to cause division and confusion, and to drag mankind backwards away from truth. Kind of sounds like someone on here but I can't think who... Donny 'The Gatekeeper'? He just puts a 'superior' slant on what the lost want to hear and it gets eaten up. Worked a treat on admin when they banned Jude. He is the vampire that you foolishly welcomed into your home. His purpose is obvious to me. I just skip over his stuff. (Don't say you weren't warned.) "Coloured lights can hypnotise Sparkle someone else's eyes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAS Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) Never seen that twist coming! Donny is a vampire whilst Elvis is satan. It's all getting a bit dark now Donny is a fantastic poster and simply knows his stuff. I think you're bringing a knife to a gunfight here, Scotty, and that's why you're going down the ignorance route. Edited March 1, 2017 by OLAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLAS Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) Edited March 1, 2017 by OLAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Scotty CTA said: The official title of this statue of Lucifer built by French freemasons is "Liberty Enlightening The World". And yes... It's male... (Think 'Elvis'... ) Wow! Maybe this was a coded message... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow jock Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Excellent debate here from Oxford Union (Broadcast By Al Jazeera) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 9 hours ago, Scotty CTA said: You said that my post was 'utter nonsense' and then offered nothing against my point. You keep quoting scripture as your facts - This is the nonsense I gave you my understanding of human biology and why humans get cancer If you dont believe in evolution or understand human biology and prefer to believe that we are all created perfect in God's image then it's understandable you not knowing "why" some people get cancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Sometimes there isn't a why. Sometimes things just happen. The decay of an atom of Uranium, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 2 hours ago, biffer said: Sometimes there isn't a why. Sometimes things just happen. The decay of an atom of Uranium, for example. There is always a "why". Sometimes (actually most of the time) we just haven't worked out what it is yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 15 hours ago, Scotty CTA said: I see today's 'science' as a religion. i know you do, but that's a subconscious construct you've created in order to deliberately place them in opposition so that you don't have to consider anything that challenges your beliefs Dawkins and the like are certainly 'worshipped'. i don't worship Dawkins, I think he's a bit of a ##### who engages in a lot of activities that are unhelpful and revels in the science v religion false construct which you have in common with him. Lucifer ('the light bringer') is the 'agent' who does that. enlightenment is sinful? Interesting to know. It's all so self-serving. "As long as we are alive then we are the leading edge." pits self serving to hold your hand up and say you're wrong? Sounds more like humility to me. 'Science' always plays catch-up to God. (Never the other way around.) a fairly vacuous and irrelevant platitude. Sounds like it might be deep, but isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Scotty why can't scientific discovery be god's way of teaching us and helping us grow? I just don't see god wanting us to remain as stone age man not wanting us to evolve our minds. I also note you have passed over my thoughts and questions about the books that were missed from the new testament. I also asked to take my thoughts and questions with an open mind but all you do is quote scripture and not give your own thoughts and views. Not even a simple good question that's something I will have to think about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 16 hours ago, Scotty CTA said: Donny 'The Gatekeeper'? He just puts a 'superior' slant on what the lost want to hear and it gets eaten up. Worked a treat on admin when they banned Jude. He is the vampire that you foolishly welcomed into your home. His purpose is obvious to me. I just skip over his stuff. (Don't say you weren't warned.) "Coloured lights can hypnotise Sparkle someone else's eyes... To be fair, any one from Doncaster is probably at least related to the devil. They are all, at least, related to each other. I have no idea why you lot give this wind up merchant fuel, at least it keeps him amused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 17 hours ago, Scotty CTA said: Wolves in the pulpit. As someone who knows a number of members of the clergy personally I'd like to take the opportunity to register my offence at that comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, andymac said: To be fair, any one from Doncaster is probably at least related to the devil. They are all, at least, related to each other. I have no idea why you lot give this wind up merchant fuel, at least it keeps him amused. andymac, see this God stuff? Do you think it's only relevant to our solar system? Our universe? If the scientists find other worlds, will they have their own God that made their heavens and earth? Do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Flure said: andymac, see this God stuff? Do you think it's only relevant to our solar system? Our universe? If the scientists find other worlds, will they have their own God that made their heavens and earth? Do you think? You asked......(but were you not there when it all started?) I have no idea if god exists or not but managed creation is not something that is impossible. If there is a god (omnipotent big person ) he is a big bugger and way bigger than some narrow view based on an insignificant planet that only view their universe in three dimensions. If big bugger only did this once I would be surprised. In which case there will be an infinite number of real religions. Anyway here is a two dimensional picture of a three dimensional shadow of a four dimensional shape. http://www.daviddarling.info/images/tesseract.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 20 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: You keep quoting scripture as your facts - This is the nonsense And people keep engaging. You cannot reason someone out of a position that they haven't reasoned themselves into. Trying to reason with "faith" is like trying to poke butter up a porcupine's arse with a hot needle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, Flure said: Trying to reason with "faith" is like trying to poke butter up a porcupine's arse with a hot needle. Perhaps for once we should listen to the voice of experience ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, DonnyTJS said: Perhaps for once we should listen to the voice of experience ... It was a summer job - what can I say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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