Lamia Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 My point was that we are not going out to target the people you described, we are going oou to target the people that are targeting us (normal civilians as seen in France). Yes I agree there may be some innocent people caught up in it, but that is the unfortunate aspect of "war". Would I want it to be me?, no, would I be happy if the RAF decided tonight to go & deliberately blow up a concert hall full of civilians?, again no. However, if they can stop the people who are committing (or encouraging others to commit) acts like Paris, then I think it's a different situation. In what world so you think bombing Syria will do this. I refer you back to my original point. The more people are killed the more people are angry and the easier it is to radicalise them. You cannot bomb your way to peace. We have been waging a supposed was on terror for 14 years by bombing the shit out of places do you honestly think we are safer now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindimoo Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 My point was that we are not going out to target the people you described, we are going oou to target the people that are targeting us (normal civilians as seen in France). Yes I agree there may be some innocent people caught up in it, but that is the unfortunate aspect of "war". Would I want it to be me?, no, would I be happy if the RAF decided tonight to go & deliberately blow up a concert hall full of civilians?, again no. However, if they can stop the people who are committing (or encouraging others to commit) acts like Paris, then I think it's a different situation. Who exactly are 'normal' civilians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Who exactly are 'normal' civilians? Well them civilians in Syria obviously aren't normal, well not normal like us anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 'Normal civilians' like the technicians, engineers, labourers, office staff and cleaners that work on oil rigs that have probably had a pretty shit day. Hey ho collateral damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindimoo Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Well them civilians in Syria obviously aren't normal, well not normal like us anyway. Ah, so our 'civilised' type of civilian then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoodster Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 There is no military solution to the various conflicts in the middle east. We are dealing here with the various post colonial territorial settlements of the 20th century. I think we need a conference to partition the various failed states of the region into functioning states, the idea of the strongman dictator holding territories together with the rule of force is clearly no longer fit for purpose. I also think 'defeat' of IS would potentially involve accepting that there is a desire in the region for an IS state run along lines that would be unpalatable to the West. I accept that initially this would be a pariah state but it would at least enable the various power brokers of the region to apply pressure from within to force a solution that is home grown rather than the rather destructive diplomacy being pursued currently. Look at how the map of Europe has splintered into smaller states in the last 30 years, and all the while the larger powers of the west have been determined to maintain the territorial integrity of artificial states in the Middle East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotunited Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 If the uk govt want to make us safer by dropping bombs, they should start with dropping them in the uk major cities and towns. That will reduce the possibility of a terrorist attack by isil inspired terrorists, as the likely hood of any attack will come from home grown terrorists, and not those pesky refugees, who are flooding into uk. Did Cameron not say a few weeks ago that the terrorists were integrated with civilians, and that is why we could not be sure if they were refugees? A few weeks later we know have pinpoint bombs that can directly hit the same said people, leaving everything around them in place and no damage at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Well them civilians in Syria obviously aren't normal, well not normal like us anyway. A "normal civilian" wouldn't be hanging around in the same place as the nasty jihadi types. They would obviously sell up and move to a nicer neighbourhood. Edited December 3, 2015 by Lamia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cove_Sheep Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Who exactly are 'normal' civilians? By "normal civilian" I meant the type of person Lamia described - TBH I thought that was fairly obvious unless someone was trying to be obtuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 By "normal civilian" I meant the type of person Lamia described - TBH I thought that was fairly obvious unless someone was trying to be obtuse Can you explain exactly why you need to prefix civilian with normal. What other civilians are there. Just for us slow of thinking people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindimoo Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Can you explain exactly why you need to prefix civilian with normal. What other civilians are there. Just for us slow of thinking people. I'm struggling with that one too. Edited December 3, 2015 by Mindimoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Can you explain exactly why you need to prefix civilian with normal. What other civilians are there. Just for us slow of thinking people. Civilian normally means non forces. Normal I would expect means a civilian that is not bearing arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 People from the forces who term normal people as "civies" are cocks. Also why is noone asking why there is a guy called Hilary, thats enough reason not to trust him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 People from the forces who term normal people as "civies" are cocks. Also why is noone asking why there is a guy called Hilary, thats enough reason not to trust him. What a small minded arse with no command of the English language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 What a small minded arse with no command of the English language. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I think you just like sticking you fingers in your ears. Then I wouldn't be able to type. I'm not thinking this will solve everything but at the moment we (coalition of western and middle Easter countries) are bombing Daesh (everyone now using that word) in Iraq and the vote is moving the targets to include inside Syria for the RAF. Hopefully it will take out some threats external and also jihadis who have travelled from UK before they travel back. It hampers their movement and damages supply lines. Civilians are already being killed mostly by fellow Muslims. How to solve Syria long term? F knows. It's not just about Syria though as the fundamentalist form of Islam needs to be defeated. There has been much grandstanding from politicians over Syria but no other details. Some bangers on here mentioned the referendum! It's not always about Scotland. David Davis Conservative MP voted against for example. To me either we try and stop the attacks before they reach us or we just close ourselves from the whole region including no refugees, no aid close the borders and I can't see that happening and personally don't agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 People from the forces who term normal people as "civies" are cocks. Also why is noone asking why there is a guy called Hilary, thats enough reason not to trust him. Spot on on both counts. I'd also like to add former members of the forces who still refer to each other by their rank, even though they are no longer in the forces and down the boozer for a jar. Fundamentally for the watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
they've_been_suckered Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Wibble. I assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Spot on on both counts. I'd also like to add former members of the forces who still refer to each other by their rank, even though they are no longer in the forces and down the boozer for a jar. Fundamentally for the watching. Yep agree with that, and current and former forces who believe they have a rkght to behave like bawbags coz they was in the army etc. My neighbour is ex army and completley normal, doesnt bang on aboit it as if hes better than anyone etc, nice guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yep agree with that, and current and former forces who believe they have a rkght to behave like bawbags coz they was in the army etc. My neighbour is ex army and completley normal, doesnt bang on aboit it as if hes better than anyone etc, nice guy. Bumped into a guy I was at school with on the train last week. Had a really eye opening conversation with him. It seems you've already met the fathers and uncles of my former schoolmates present "comrades" ! He joined the army last year (he's with "2SCOTS" - formerly the Highland Fusiliers) and told me that his regiment is just "one huge Orange Lodge" and that I "wouldn't believe how many BNP and neo-nazi types are in it". Says he's got one guy in his platoon who is constantly telling everyone how they "should all be proud to be white men". He's currently trying to get transferred to another regiment, he's that disgusted with them. If people want to blindly hero worship the military, then fine, knock yourselves oot. Just please remember that a considerable number of us for a variety of reasons don't want any part in it and it also doesn't make us bad people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Apparently you get bawbags in all walks of life. The best bit, as ever, is when bawbags can't see they are being bawbags when moaning about others. You pair of fannies really whinging about somebody's name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Apparently you get bawbags in all walks of life. The best bit, as ever, is when bawbags can't see they are being bawbags when moaning about others. You pair of fannies really whinging about somebody's name? Nope not their name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 To me either we try and stop the attacks before they reach us or we just close ourselves from the whole region including no refugees, no aid close the borders and I can't see that happening and personally don't agree with it. The attacks in France were carried out by French people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Then I wouldn't be able to type. I'm not thinking this will solve everything but at the moment we (coalition of western and middle Easter countries) are bombing Daesh (everyone now using that word) in Iraq and the vote is moving the targets to include inside Syria for the RAF. Hopefully it will take out some threats external and also jihadis who have travelled from UK before they travel back. It hampers their movement and damages supply lines. Civilians are already being killed mostly by fellow Muslims. How to solve Syria long term? F knows. It's not just about Syria though as the fundamentalist form of Islam needs to be defeated. There has been much grandstanding from politicians over Syria but no other details. Some bangers on here mentioned the referendum! It's not always about Scotland. David Davis Conservative MP voted against for example. To me either we try and stop the attacks before they reach us or we just close ourselves from the whole region including no refugees, no aid close the borders and I can't see that happening and personally don't agree with it. Tell us then exactly how you defeat a 'concept'....ie. fundamental Islam....by dropping bombs on people ? OK, I'll give you that by dropping bombs you'll kill people. You might even kill some terrorists....but, how does that defeat fundamental Islam ? How does bombing people in Syria, stop people in Paris or Brussels or London or Boston or San Bernardino or anywhere from being radicalised ? How does bombing stop them from feeling infuriated enough to plot and carry out mass murder ? You know, we had a chance after 9/11 to...if not create harmony.....at the very least build bridges with the Moslem world. Different choices made by Bush and Blair at that point could have seen a very different world at this point. But no. We chose to invade, and kill, and yes, bomb. And because we did that we sowed the seeds that's led to the chaos and insanity that we're faced with now. And you want to do it all again ? To make the same mistakes, over and over again ? How many times, before we learn ? :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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