redstevie007 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Like most things London gets its D&G (Direction & Guidance) from USA (did ye see whit ah did there ?) Militarism is endemic in America. Veterans this, Hero's that....Fly the Flag. When a state puts its military on such a pedestal it becomes more difficult for the public to criticise illegal wars and the criminal waste of service peoples lives. We know Americans don't do irony....it's an incredibly cynical governmental method of persuading Joe Public not to criticise it's soldiers because it (mindfvck-wise) may be seen as being disloyal towards the "policy" of Country & Flag (American Military-Industrial-Complex MIC). "War is Good Business. Invest Your Sons" Blair & Brown embraced the militarisation of our society using USA as the role model. It's no coincidence Armed Forces Day (AFD) and Remembrance Day were implemented as "useful" cynical Loyalist propaganda vehicles in London Labours time in government: - 1) Makes it more difficult to criticise the illegal war in Iraq 2003. 2) "Useful" Britfest bollox in the run up to our Independence Referendum (e.g. Stirling AFD (June 2014) was planned to co-incide with Bannockburn 2014 etc etc. The Army in Scotland were horrified at this BTW - categorically it was politically motivated) Anyone who's served in the military, generally, mark the passing of our own, together. Armistice wasn't a particularly public gig. An 1100hrs wet, cauld Sunday November morning wasn't really conducive to bringing out the crowds..... it always somehow seemed fitting to remember an event that took place on 11 Nov 1918. Nae pomp or ceremony. Jist remembering oor ain. AFD has become a June/summer event. Better crowds, ye see. "Armistice" used to be a church parade, laying of wreaths (civic organisations, Old Comrades, cadet organisations & military) then lunch/drinks. In the ones I've been involved in (Ayr,Kilmarnok, Glasgow & Aberdeen) any ex-servicemen and immediate families were usually welcome to join the Regulars and Reservists at wherever the gig was being held. The public were normally welcome at their respective war memorials/cenotaphs. Aberdeen have always had a very strong Scots Guards, Parachute Regiment & Gordon Highlanders Associations, for example. Red berets, Guards berets and Glengarries everywhere. These lads ken where tae find us each other that particular annual Sunday, for example. Medals are for wearing, not for being kept in an auld drawer. So, the "Old &Bold" get thegither, pull up a few sandbags and swing the lantern.....as they should. HLI are very strong in Glasgow as are RSF in Ayr as are RHF in baith toons. Its' braw. Relatives of the "Fallen" are entitled to wear their family members medals. Poignant disnae begin tae describe Auld Dears standing chittering in the rain but absolutely very determined tae be there.... The "Remembrance" and AFD circus today is cynical exploitative government Billy Brit pi$h. I detest what its become. RIP Fusilier Russell Beeston, Fusilier Jason Smith, Sgt Gus Millar, Capt Walter Barrie & PO Stefan Morisette. Outstanding post. As someone who's been in the RAF nearly 24 years now, I've become embarrassed by the annual debate. Wear a poppy or don't, doesn't matter. I despise AF Day as I don't see myself as any different from anyone else in public service, and I've never taken part in one. Remembrance Day's different. Go to church or a parade, bow your head for a couple of minutes and say a silent thanks to our grandfathers and great-grandfathers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 It looks like a 5 year old did it. Well done Parky aye, it is a mock up, think that's the same pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Like most things London gets its D&G (Direction & Guidance) from USA (did ye see whit ah did there ?) Militarism is endemic in America. Veterans this, Hero's that....Fly the Flag. When a state puts its military on such a pedestal it becomes more difficult for the public to criticise illegal wars and the criminal waste of service peoples lives. We know Americans don't do irony....it's an incredibly cynical governmental method of persuading Joe Public not to criticise it's soldiers because it (mindfvck-wise) may be seen as being disloyal towards the "policy" of Country & Flag (American Military-Industrial-Complex MIC). "War is Good Business. Invest Your Sons" Blair & Brown embraced the militarisation of our society using USA as the role model. It's no coincidence Armed Forces Day (AFD) and Remembrance Day were implemented as "useful" cynical Loyalist propaganda vehicles in London Labours time in government: - 1) Makes it more difficult to criticise the illegal war in Iraq 2003. 2) "Useful" Britfest bollox in the run up to our Independence Referendum (e.g. Stirling AFD (June 2014) was planned to co-incide with Bannockburn 2014 etc etc. The Army in Scotland were horrified at this BTW - categorically it was politically motivated) Anyone who's served in the military, generally, mark the passing of our own, together. Armistice wasn't a particularly public gig. An 1100hrs wet, cauld Sunday November morning wasn't really conducive to bringing out the crowds..... it always somehow seemed fitting to remember an event that took place on 11 Nov 1918. Nae pomp or ceremony. Jist remembering oor ain. AFD has become a June/summer event. Better crowds, ye see. "Armistice" used to be a church parade, laying of wreaths (civic organisations, Old Comrades, cadet organisations & military) then lunch/drinks. In the ones I've been involved in (Ayr,Kilmarnok, Glasgow & Aberdeen) any ex-servicemen and immediate families were usually welcome to join the Regulars and Reservists at wherever the gig was being held. The public were normally welcome at their respective war memorials/cenotaphs. Aberdeen have always had a very strong Scots Guards, Parachute Regiment & Gordon Highlanders Associations, for example. Red berets, Guards berets and Glengarries everywhere. These lads ken where tae find us each other that particular annual Sunday, for example. Medals are for wearing, not for being kept in an auld drawer. So, the "Old &Bold" get thegither, pull up a few sandbags and swing the lantern.....as they should. HLI are very strong in Glasgow as are RSF in Ayr as are RHF in baith toons. Its' braw. Relatives of the "Fallen" are entitled to wear their family members medals. Poignant disnae begin tae describe Auld Dears standing chittering in the rain but absolutely very determined tae be there.... The "Remembrance" and AFD circus today is cynical exploitative government Billy Brit pi$h. I detest what its become. RIP Fusilier Russell Beeston, Fusilier Jason Smith, Sgt Gus Millar, Capt Walter Barrie & PO Stefan Morisette. Bang on. Lord Dannatt (head of the army during Blair/Browns term) was only too willing to go along with it. He's on record saying Britain needed to become more like the US when it came to glorification of the armed forces etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Laughing at remembering the dead is not funny. You know, as well as I do, he and everyone is not laughing at the dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Buy a white poppy guys, just a suggestion. I did for the first time this year. The poppy has turned into a political symbol and has (for now) lost it's original meaning and purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstevie007 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Buy a white poppy guys, just a suggestion. I did for the first time this year. The poppy has turned into a political symbol and has (for now) lost it's original meaning and purpose. The white poppy's just as political now, if not more so. I'd argue that wearing the red poppy in spite of its politicisation is a stronger statement than getting a white one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm surprised that the moronic, obese slob, Debian has gotten so many bites on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The white poppy's just as political now, if not more so. I'd argue that wearing the red poppy in spite of its politicisation is a stronger statement than getting a white one. Disagree. The red poppy is all about politics now. The white poppy has been the target of a horrible false information campaign by politicians, journalists and also some in the military for a long time now. Thankfully more and more people in the last couple of years have decided to take them up and wear them in public. The best tribute to the dead of yesteryear is to end all war, not to glorify it which quite honestly I believe has been object of remembrance day in the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstevie007 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Disagree. The red poppy is all about politics now. The white poppy has been the target of a horrible false information campaign by politicians, journalists and also some in the military for a long time now. Thankfully more and more people in the last couple of years have decided to take them up and wear them in public. The best tribute to the dead of yesteryear is to end all war, not to glorify it which quite honestly I believe has been object of remembrance day in the last few years. Whilst I agree that the red poppy has been politicised in recent years, it's not 'all about politics'. I buy and wear my poppy as an act of remembrance and contribute to the poppy appeal because proceeds go towards helping ex-servicemen and women. The PPU are rather vague on what they do with any money they make - it goes towards their 'activities and education'. It's worth noting that the RBL aren't particularly critical of the white poppy and are quite happy for people to decide to wear one or the other, or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Read that a wreath of white poppies had to be replaced at the Aberystwyth memorial after they were found screwed up and chucked in a bin. Nice. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm surprised that the moronic, obese slob, Debian has gotten so many bites on this thread. Aww you were upset were you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The big fuss over wearing poppies and the over the top armed forces day has turned me right off. It's become a show, politically motivated and tries to force some sort of British nationalism on people. I used to wear one but haven't in a good few years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Aww you were upset were you ?Nothing for me to be upset about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Nothing for me to be upset about That's sweet. How's the family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 That's sweet. How's the family?Excuse me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 James Mclean likes this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Excuse me? You're excused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Whilst I agree that the red poppy has been politicised in recent years, it's not 'all about politics'. I buy and wear my poppy as an act of remembrance and contribute to the poppy appeal because proceeds go towards helping ex-servicemen and women. The PPU are rather vague on what they do with any money they make - it goes towards their 'activities and education'. It's worth noting that the RBL aren't particularly critical of the white poppy and are quite happy for people to decide to wear one or the other, or both. But don't you agree then that the Peace Pledge Union deserve just as much publicity as the RBL ? I think it's great that the PPU fund pacifist education and projects. There's nothing wrong with that at all. In fact I don't think I will ever again buy a red poppy again now that it's been hijacked. A growing number of veterans now support the white poppy campaign too. The beautiful thing about a white poppy is that it remembers all victims of war, not just those from a select few nations who were in uniform. Two of England's iconic figures of the Great War, Siegfried Sassoon and Vera Brittain, both strongly supported the white poppy campaign from 1934 onwards. Till the day they died, they both refused to have anything to do with the RBL. Both knew from first hand experience that there is no such thing as "the glorious dead". Sadly, people selling white poppies in public are not a common sight and those that do take a personal risk. It's common for them to be verbally or physically abused solely because they are promoting the cause of peace and because they've had the audacity to think for themselves and go against the grain. For decades now they have had to put up with lies and smears against them from politicians, journalists and also sadly a few in the military themselves who believe that they are committing a sacrilege and insulting the war dead. A lot of complete nonsense. I really do urge folk on here to let go of the red poppy. Instead, wear a white poppy. Don't be scared to wear one in public and promote the greatest cause anyone can promote: peace. You can buy them from the PPU website. http://www.ppu.org.uk/ How could promoting peace possibly offend anyone ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Holding cards in the air during a Remembrance silence certainly doesn't sit right with me. But clearly plenty of folk were happy to do it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstevie007 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 But don't you agree then that the Peace Pledge Union deserve just as much publicity as the RBL ? I think it's great that the PPU fund pacifist education and projects. There's nothing wrong with that at all. In fact I don't think I will ever again buy a red poppy again now that it's been hijacked. A growing number of veterans now support the white poppy campaign too. The beautiful thing about a white poppy is that it remembers all victims of war, not just those from a select few nations who were in uniform. Two of England's iconic figures of the Great War, Siegfried Sassoon and Vera Brittain, both strongly supported the white poppy campaign from 1934 onwards. Till the day they died, they both refused to have anything to do with the RBL. Both knew from first hand experience that there is no such thing as "the glorious dead". Sadly, people selling white poppies in public are not a common sight and those that do take a personal risk. It's common for them to be verbally or physically abused solely because they are promoting the cause of peace and because they've had the audacity to think for themselves and go against the grain. For decades now they have had to put up with lies and smears against them from politicians, journalists and also sadly a few in the military themselves who believe that they are committing a sacrilege and insulting the war dead. A lot of complete nonsense. I really do urge folk on here to let go of the red poppy. Instead, wear a white poppy. Don't be scared to wear one in public and promote the greatest cause anyone can promote: peace. You can buy them from the PPU website. http://www.ppu.org.uk/ How could promoting peace possibly offend anyone ? Who's talking about taking offence? I'll buy a red poppy thanks, and donate towards a charity which helps servicemen and women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) You're excused.What was it meant to mean, bawbag?Man up and say what you meant, rather than being a shitebag. Edited October 31, 2015 by Parklife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitre Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Who's talking about taking offence? I'll buy a red poppy thanks, and donate towards a charity which helps servicemen and women. this ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan cake Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 What was it meant to mean, bawbag? Man up and say what you meant, rather than being a shitebag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 What was it meant to mean, bawbag? Man up and say what you meant, rather than being a shitebag. Morning Parky ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan cake Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Morning Parky 10/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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