Jagtag Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 My opinion of gs lessens with every one of these players he selects at the expense of a player who is Scottish. I don't believe in winning at all costs. Feel free to stop going and leave it to fans who back the team and manager 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo2576 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 You are obviously not German then. I wonder how many World Cups they have won with that attitude? And yes they have called up players with tenuous links to Germany as well.You are correct, I'm not German. They can call up you if they want, I'm not interested in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo2576 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Feel free to stop going and leave it to fans who back the team and manager 100% Did you have the same attitude when levein or burley was in charge then? Strachans doin a great job, doesn't mean I have to agree with him in every decision he makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 You are correct, I'm not German. They can call up you if they want, I'm not interested in them. Would sooner they called you up as it may divert you away from posting on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Ach it ain't that big a deal. GMS can feel hard done by though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo2576 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Would sooner they called you up as it may divert you away from posting on the board. Get a grip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Paulo2576, just to add we get the picture. You only want players born in Scotland representing us - fair enough. But in the real world that has never been the case for decades. Hell I bet we could dip back many many years and dig out players playing for us who weren't born here. It is us going by rules passed by FIFA and every country in the world have used those rules to their benefit. Now you can say (if you wish) that you don't care about other countries but that doesn't change things. If you cannot accept things the way they are then you really should not be at all interested in international football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 He's still fully eligible and more so than others in the squad or even some of the TA. As the MP expenses claims showed there is the letter of the law and there is the spirit of the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Do we have to name the great Scotland players who were not born in Scotland yet again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo2576 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Paulo2576, just to add we get the picture. You only want players born in Scotland representing us - fair enough. But in the real world that has never been the case for decades. Hell I bet we could dip back many many years and dig out players playing for us who weren't born here. It is us going by rules passed by FIFA and every country in the world have used those rules to their benefit. Now you can say (if you wish) that you don't care about other countries but that doesn't change things. If you cannot accept things the way they are then you really should not be at all interested in international football.I'll decide what I should be interested in Caledonian Craig. There are many things in all walks of life where I disagree with the rules, yet acknowledge that they will be followed whilst they exist. But don't tell me that there are things you disagree with and you don't comment or complain about them. How do things change if people just shut up and accept it.You continue to say that I insist on players being born in Scotland to the point I think you're deliberately ignoring what I say, but I will state it again anyway, I'm happy with the parent rule, however I cease to accept it when the player in question says he is English the very same day he gets called up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisEDI Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Do we have to name the great Scotland players who were not born in Scotland yet again its not about not being born in scotland its about not considering yourself to be scottish. the guy has never even been here at the age of 25 sorry but i find it disgraceful that he is getting called up, i bet you he couldnt even tell you the name of our national stadium or which city it is in till a few weeks ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I think there is a simple mistake happening here, as happens everytime we have this thread, and yet loads of folk get collective amnesia over it. The issue isn't where someone was born. The issue is being one nationality( as defined by what you feel you are) and playing for a seperate and differing nation, in the context of of inter nations competing. The logical conclusion of the opposite view-point is the destruction of international football in it's current form to be replaced by basically club football where nations leverage whatever power they can to construct a team. Teams ability will be a function of money and other issues, as opposed to the collective effort of the nation to produce footballers via academies etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 when the player in question says he is English the very same day he gets called up. Well he was born in England so he is technically saying it as it is but you say you aren't too fussed (words to that effect) with the parent rule well Ritchie qualifies for us through that so what exactly is your beef? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noctonjock Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The good thing about this board is the difference of opinion , only the other day people on here were wanting Matt Phillips recalled after arich vein of form (even though he, s not scottish born) and now people are complaining about the call up of Matt Ritchie, I dont think either were forced to play for us , they wouldn't have taken up the offer if their hearts weren't in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The good thing about this board is the difference of opinion , only the other day people on here were wanting Matt Phillips recalled after arich vein of form (even though he, s not scottish born) and now people are complaining about the call up of Matt Ritchie, I dont think either were forced to play for us , they wouldn't have taken up the offer if their hearts weren't in it That is too sensible a post for this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo2576 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Well he was born in England so he is technically saying it as it is but you say you aren't too fussed (words to that effect) with the parent rule well Ritchie qualifies for us through that so what exactly is your beef? What???! Yes I know he was born in England, he has a father born in Scotland, that works for me, the stumbling block which I thought I is pretty obvious is that he said he said he's English not Scottish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The good thing about this board is the difference of opinion , only the other day people on here were wanting Matt Phillips recalled after arich vein of form (even though he, s not scottish born) and now people are complaining about the call up of Matt Ritchie, I dont think either were forced to play for us , they wouldn't have taken up the offer if their hearts weren't in it Probably not the same people though. I'm of the opinion we shouldn't be doing it, i can handle my opinion not being taken into account, it's not that i think the opposite side has no argument, it clearly has. I just think it's short-sighted and will ultimately make international football less relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The issue isn't where someone was born. The issue is being one nationality( as defined by what you feel you are) and playing for a seperate and differing nation, in the context of of inter nations competing. Okay but feelings and thoughts change over the mists of time. You may have no inclination or desire for Australia (lets say) but who knows? You may end up emigrating there in five years time and grow to have a great affinity for that country. Akin to natural born Scots who emigrated elsewhere. That could be the case for English-born players who choose to play for us. Look at Terry Butcher for example - English but has been employed and lived up in Scotland for about ten to twenty years and I reckon has a great affinity with this country. Adversely, Scots players have left Scotland and maybe very rarely return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 What???! Yes I know he was born in England, he has a father born in Scotland, that works for me, the stumbling block which I thought I is pretty obvious is that he said he said he's English not Scottish. Well he was born in England and said he was half-Scottish lets not leave his full statement out eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Okay but feelings and thoughts change over the mists of time. You may have no inclination or desire for Australia (lets say) but who knows? You may end up emigrating there in five years time and grow to have a great affinity for that country. Akin to natural born Scots who emigrated elsewhere. That could be the case for English-born players who choose to play for us. Look at Terry Butcher for example - English but has been employed and lived up in Scotland for about ten to twenty years and I reckon has a great affinity with this country. Adversely, Scots players have left Scotland and maybe very rarely return. Yeah but none of this is relevant to this issue. Although my mate just got his Australian Citizenship last week. We're talking about someone who said they were English and had never been to Scotland. I'm not raging about it, just feel the continuing weakening of the "selection integrity"(in the vague context of nationality) will eventually render inter-nation competition redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagtag Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The good thing about this board is the difference of opinion , only the other day people on here were wanting Matt Phillips recalled after arich vein of form (even though he, s not scottish born) and now people are complaining about the call up of Matt Ritchie, I dont think either were forced to play for us , they wouldn't have taken up the offer if their hearts weren't in it Jack Harper? Born and brought up in Spain. Yes he has committed to Scotland as a youth but had Richie been called up as a 15 year old who's to say he wouldn't have jumped at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 We're talking about someone who said they were English and had never been to Scotland. I'm not raging about it, just feel the continuing weakening of the "selection integrity"(in the vague context of nationality) will eventually render inter-nation competition redundant. He said he is English because technically speaking he is as was Don Hutchison, Graham Alexander, Matt Elliott, Neil Sullivan etc etc. As for the continuing weakening of the selection integrity eventually rendering international competition redundant I think that is way too much of an over-reaction. If we lived in an ideal world every country would have only natural born players playing for their country but it isn't. Every country in the world has, at some point, used the parent rule at some point so Scotland are doing no different to other countries. I'd prefer us to pick natural born Scots ideally as well as it happens but I am not going to throw hissy fits (not you phart) if that isn't the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) He said he is English because technically speaking he is as was Don Hutchison, Graham Alexander, Matt Elliott, Neil Sullivan etc etc. As for the continuing weakening of the selection integrity eventually rendering international competition redundant I think that is way too much of an over-reaction. If we lived in an ideal world every country would have only natural born players playing for their country but it isn't. Every country in the world has, at some point, used the parent rule at some point so Scotland are doing no different to other countries. I'd prefer us to pick natural born Scots ideally as well as it happens but I am not going to throw hissy fits (not you phart) if that isn't the case. I don't believe we know if he was speaking "technically" he said "obviously i see myself as English, i am half-scottish..." His half-scottish sounds the more technical cause he goes on to describe his dad being scottish as way of explanation, however no way to check speculation, so all hearsay. It's not an over-reaction it is the logical conclusion, now it might not be likely to happen, but if someone can see themselves as one nationality but chose another is extrapolated globally, that is a conclusion, it is already happening actually. For example Qatar are already doing it (they did it with athletics having 2 brothers running for two different countries) they are going to build a "naturalised" team, combing earth for the best talent and making them citizens so they can have a good 2022 WC. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10732983/Qatar-determined-to-build-a-team-to-make-its-people-proud-at-the-2022-World-Cup.html " This goal is realised by the “talent screening” of primary-school aged youngsters. The academy itself was founded in 2004 and has scouts watching a staggering 600,000 young footballers across the globe. “We have a talent screening programme for kids from the age of six right through to 14,” he said. “We put those children through a whole series of physical tests to see how talented they are in various areas. “As they get older that process gets a little more sophisticated and we are able to identify the sports in which those young people could potentially excel.” While the emphasis is on building a Qatari-born side for their home World Cup, Aspire is developing youngsters from around the world to raise the standard of football in the country." How is that fair for developing countries who are poverty stricken and rich nations cherrypick all their sports stars? Edited March 16, 2015 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al1978 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Strachan said on Off the Ball that he'll call up 'English' players if they 'feel' Scottish. Don't see how some of these guys can feel Scottish rather than English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) We're talking about someone who said they were English and had never been to Scotland. I'm not raging about it, just feel the continuing weakening of the "selection integrity"(in the vague context of nationality) will eventually render inter-nation competition redundant. I wouldn't say it's a continual weakening in this case. Ritchie qualifies under the same criteria that Bob Wilson did half a century ago. If you look at the World Cup a large number of players competing won't be participiating for their country of birth. I don't think it detracts from the tournament in terms of enjoyment or spectacle. Edited March 17, 2015 by Toepoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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