Indyref 2 (2)

[Ally Bongo]

59 minutes ago, aaid said:

She’s the female John Mason.

wow

[aaid]

14 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

wow

Wow indeed, in fact, if anything she’s even worse.

if you think that writing to Alister Jack, asking him to intervene to block the GRR bill is in anyway shape or form an acceptable thing for an SNP MP to do then I don’t know what you think is acceptable.

At Joanna Cherry see’s it correctly, she thinks that the GRR Bill is a problem - I disagree - but is clear that the problem should be sorted in Scotland.

Of course what you’re getting here, and promoting, is - sources close to - Lisa Cameron’s side of the story.   I suspect the truth is something different.

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Wow indeed, in fact, if anything she’s even worse.

if you think that writing to Alister Jack, asking him to intervene to block the GRR bill is in anyway shape or form an acceptable thing for an SNP MP to do then I don’t know what you think is acceptable.

At Joanna Cherry see’s it correctly, she thinks that the GRR Bill is a problem - I disagree - but is clear that the problem should be sorted in Scotland.

Of course what you’re getting here, and promoting, is - sources close to - Lisa Cameron’s side of the story.   I suspect the truth is something different.

This shows how far you have gone

She wrote to Alister Jack to intervene "in a way that doesn't undermine the devolution settlement"

Lisa Cameron is a fabulous MP for her constituency and a million miles away from the zoomer that is John Mason

One rule for Salmond's accusers and another for Patrick Grady's ?

I actually hope the challenge to her continuing to be the candidate wins and she does call a by election - that's how fucked up the SNP is

[aaid]

39 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

 

She wrote to Alister Jack to intervene "in a way that doesn't undermine the devolution settlement"

 

Scottish Parliament lawfully and legitimately passes an Act of Parliament, how does Alister Jack intervene in a way that doesn’t undermine the devolution settlement?

[Ally Bongo]

58 minutes ago, aaid said:

Scottish Parliament lawfully and legitimately passes an Act of Parliament, how does Alister Jack intervene in a way that doesn’t undermine the devolution settlement?

By not blocking it obviously and maybe suggesting to Humza that he introduces something alongside it to tackle those he knows "are at it"

It's not rocket science

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

This shows how far you have gone

She wrote to Alister Jack to intervene "in a way that doesn't undermine the devolution settlement"

Lisa Cameron is a fabulous MP for her constituency and a million miles away from the zoomer that is John Mason

One rule for Salmond's accusers and another for Patrick Grady's ?

I actually hope the challenge to her continuing to be the candidate wins and she does call a by election - that's how fucked up the SNP is

What was the situation with Patrick Grady , ie what was the reason for the charges being dropped and what happened to the accuser afterwards ? 

It’s unusual for a hard working MP to be challenged so it does suggest pressure is on to try and push her out which is pretty shitty to say the least . You cannot just force a good MP out because they have spoken out about something they disagree with. 

On the other hand , I can’t really condone an SNP MP going to the Tories for help  . There are always going to be bills that are passed that , as an MP or MSP,  you personally don’t agree with,  but you dont bloody well  go running to the party that would happily abolish the Scottish parliament at the first opportunity. 
 

35 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

By not blocking it obviously and maybe suggesting to Humza that he introduces something alongside it to tackle those he knows "are at it"

It's not rocket science

Its not rocket science but equally its not remotely likely to happen. The only thing  AJ is interested in is usurping the SG at every opportunity he has absolutely no interest in negotiation. 
 

 

[aaid]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

What was the situation with Patrick Grady , ie what was the reason for the charges being dropped and what happened to the accuser afterwards ? 

 

At a Christmas night out for the SNP Westminster group, Patrick Grady made what could probably best be described as a mild pass at a male staffer - he stroked his hair and the back of his neck.  This was rebuffed and there was no more contact between them.

Grady was stupid, in the wrong and this was badly handled by the WM group. It should’ve been dealt with the next day with an apology and if that wasn’t accepted they should’ve sorted it out there and then.   As it was, Ian Blackford didn’t do anything about it until over a year later when he facilitated a meeting between himself, Patrick Grady and the individual.

In May 2021, the individual raised this with the Parliamentary Authorities as an official complaint.   He admitted that this was precipitated by an incident with another MP and was driven by Patrick Grady - the then Chief Whip’s actions.   

He also raised 8 additional complaints against Grady, all of which were thrown out.   Additionally, the complaints and investigation were supposed to be confidential and yet the individual repeatedly briefed the media.

I also think that he was the same person who raised similar complaints against Patricia Gibson.

Grady was in the wrong and has paid a heavy price for that.  Read the report and form your own opinions on Grady’s behaviour and the motives of the complainer.

 

https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/mps-lords--offices/standards-and-financial-interests/independent-expert-panel/hc-368---the-conduct-of-mr-patrick-grady-mp.pdf

[Hertsscot]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

At a Christmas night out for the SNP Westminster group, Patrick Grady made what could probably best be described as a mild pass at a male staffer - he stroked his hair and the back of his neck.  This was rebuffed and there was no more contact between them.

Grady was stupid, in the wrong and this was badly handled by the WM group. It should’ve been dealt with the next day with an apology and if that wasn’t accepted they should’ve sorted it out there and then.   As it was, Ian Blackford didn’t do anything about it until over a year later when he facilitated a meeting between himself, Patrick Grady and the individual.

In May 2021, the individual raised this with the Parliamentary Authorities as an official complaint.   He admitted that this was precipitated by an incident with another MP and was driven by Patrick Grady - the then Chief Whip’s actions.   

He also raised 8 additional complaints against Grady, all of which were thrown out.   Additionally, the complaints and investigation were supposed to be confidential and yet the individual repeatedly briefed the media.

I also think that he was the same person who raised similar complaints against Patricia Gibson.

Grady was in the wrong and has paid a heavy price for that.  Read the report and form your own opinions on Grady’s behaviour and the motives of the complainer.

 

https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/mps-lords--offices/standards-and-financial-interests/independent-expert-panel/hc-368---the-conduct-of-mr-patrick-grady-mp.pdf

Grady was out of order but the report is worth reading. Tories talking about sex pest is completely over egging the pudding 

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

Grady was out of order but the report is worth reading. Tories talking about sex pest is completely over egging the pudding 

Not just Tories.  

[TDYER63]

4 hours ago, aaid said:

At a Christmas night out for the SNP Westminster group, Patrick Grady made what could probably best be described as a mild pass at a male staffer - he stroked his hair and the back of his neck.  This was rebuffed and there was no more contact between them.

Grady was stupid, in the wrong and this was badly handled by the WM group. It should’ve been dealt with the next day with an apology and if that wasn’t accepted they should’ve sorted it out there and then.   As it was, Ian Blackford didn’t do anything about it until over a year later when he facilitated a meeting between himself, Patrick Grady and the individual.

In May 2021, the individual raised this with the Parliamentary Authorities as an official complaint.   He admitted that this was precipitated by an incident with another MP and was driven by Patrick Grady - the then Chief Whip’s actions.   

He also raised 8 additional complaints against Grady, all of which were thrown out.   Additionally, the complaints and investigation were supposed to be confidential and yet the individual repeatedly briefed the media.

I also think that he was the same person who raised similar complaints against Patricia Gibson.

Grady was in the wrong and has paid a heavy price for that.  Read the report and form your own opinions on Grady’s behaviour and the motives of the complainer.

 

https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/mps-lords--offices/standards-and-financial-interests/independent-expert-panel/hc-368---the-conduct-of-mr-patrick-grady-mp.pdf

As you say it was totally out of order,  should never have happened and should have been dealt with immediately.

But some sense of perspective is needed. It’s hardly the actions of a sex pest. This has been overlooked by an independent group in Westminster, not some SNP  quango, and they have decided Grady was immediately apologetic, remorseful of his actions, and there was absolutely no evidence to suggest that anything like this had  happened before. 

People makes mistakes. If a similar thing had happen to a member of another party i would say exactly the same.
I feel sympathy for the complainer as it must have extremely uncomfortable and probably frightening as Grady was after all in a position of power. However they have not really helped the situation by leaking things to the media . If a situation had left me devastated I dont think I would want to exacerbate things by having it splashed over newspapers. Particularly when the investigation had not been completed. I hope they manage to move on, there are no winners here. 

[aaid]

This selection campaign in East Kilbride is looking very shady.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23812249.snp-mp-threatens-legal-action-amid-row-selection-process/

Looks like there’s a two candidate run off.  Lisa Cameron has the required number of nominations from party members.   Grant Costello has the support of the local Westminster Campaign Committee which covers all the branches in the constituency.  Lisa Cameron chose not to seek their support - read into that what you will.

Linda Fabiani, the former MSP has nominated Grant Costello.  I imagine that she’ll be well regarded locally and would have worked closely with Cameron as a lot of MP/MSP work overlaps.

I think when a sitting member seems to fall out with the local party, it probably means there’s something serious going on and the relationship has broken down.

Still Patrick Grady blah blah blah.

[Ally Bongo]

26 minutes ago, aaid said:

 

 Lisa Cameron chose not to seek their support - read into that what you will.
 

She has a mandate from the electorate - why should she when they have been ordered to oust her

[aaid]

1 minute ago, Ally Bongo said:

She has a mandate from the electorate - why should she when they have been ordered to oust her

You do know that all SNP MPs and MSPs have to be re-adopted at each election, it’s not a job for life.  There’s a few MPs being challenged as they start to select their candidates in advance of the next GE, most notably in Glasgow where Alison Thewlis’ constituency has been abolished.

[Ally Bongo]

3 minutes ago, aaid said:

You do know that all SNP MPs and MSPs have to be re-adopted at each election, it’s not a job for life.  There’s a few MPs being challenged as they start to select their candidates in advance of the next GE, most notably in Glasgow where Alison Thewlis’ constituency has been abolished.

She had the 5th highest majority vote at the last election

It's shabby and underhand as fuck

[Alibi]

14 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

She had the 5th highest majority vote at the last election

It's shabby and underhand as fuck

It is indeed, but seems to be what happens when you don't toe the line on the things that matter to the leadership - like GRR.  As a member (until my membership runs out in a few days at least) I am repeatedly appalled at what the SNP has become.  Mindless acceptance of any edicts handed down from the top or you will be hounded out.  What happened to the independence party that I used to know?  Worst thing Salmond ever did was hand unfettered control over to Sturgeon.  We need a revolution.

[PapofGlencoe]

49 minutes ago, Alibi said:

It is indeed, but seems to be what happens when you don't toe the line on the things that matter to the leadership - like GRR.  As a member (until my membership runs out in a few days at least) I am repeatedly appalled at what the SNP has become.  Mindless acceptance of any edicts handed down from the top or you will be hounded out.  What happened to the independence party that I used to know?  Worst thing Salmond ever did was hand unfettered control over to Sturgeon.  We need a revolution.

In fairness I don't think Salmond broached indiscipline either.  For good reason.  The SNP need to be united.

If there was a referendum there would be unity but there's no path to it and without it goodwill is falling apart at the seams.  

I've a good friend who lives in Burnside near Glasgow, to my surprise he has said he's voting Labour in the by-election.  Pro indy to the hilt but says Scotland needs a freshness.  Indy is simply not on the agenda for many people,, even those who would vote Yes.  which does mean there remains latent indy support who can't stomach the SNP anymore for various reasons. It's not over but will happen in a second wind, if at all.  I hope i'm completely wrong though and Yousaf pulls it out the bag.  Even a good leader would struggle given the cards he's been dealt with arrests, wedge issues, an openly hostile grassroots fringe and too long in "power".

I can't remember the last time independence came up as a topic of conversation amongst my peers.  People are more interested in cost of living in my view and just getting by.  I always vigorously support it and will make my opinion known but I don't sense a burning desire for a referendum any time soon. 

The things is there really does exist indy support though out there but it's a sleeping rebellion.  

 

[TDYER63]

18 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

In fairness I don't think Salmond broached indiscipline either.  For good reason.  The SNP need to be united.

If there was a referendum there would be unity but there's no path to it and without it goodwill is falling apart at the seams.  

I've a good friend who lives in Burnside near Glasgow, to my surprise he has said he's voting Labour in the by-election.  Pro indy to the hilt but says Scotland needs a freshness.  Indy is simply not on the agenda for many people,, even those who would vote Yes.  which does mean there remains latent indy support who can't stomach the SNP anymore for various reasons. It's not over but will happen in a second wind, if at all.  I hope i'm completely wrong though and Yousaf pulls it out the bag.  Even a good leader would struggle given the cards he's been dealt with arrests, wedge issues, an openly hostile grassroots fringe and too long in "power".

I can't remember the last time independence came up as a topic of conversation amongst my peers.  People are more interested in cost of living in my view and just getting by.  I always vigorously support it and will make my opinion known but I don't sense a burning desire for a referendum any time soon. 

The things is there really does exist indy support though out there but it's a sleeping rebellion.  

 

There will never be a rebellion in Scotland as people are just to weak. If what has happened in the UK over the past few years isn’t enough to get people angry enough for proper change I really don’t know what will.
 

With the greatest of respect to your friend, voting Labour wont change a thing in the UK but it will change Scotland, and not for the better as he hopes. I can understand why he is doing it, but its not going to have the desired effect. Apart from the fact devolution will be watered down to a fraction of what we even have just now, do people not remember why Labour lost Scotland in the first place? 

The SNP might be making poor decisions on certain policies but you could never accuse them of not having Scotland’s back .  I would never vote for any party who didn’t think we had the right to self determination. If folk want to simply be a tiny part of the UK then fine, let them continue to be plundered and take the consequences. 

[StirlingEgg]

8 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

There will never be a rebellion in Scotland as people are just to weak. If what has happened in the UK over the past few years isn’t enough to get people angry enough for proper change I really don’t know what will.
 

With the greatest of respect to your friend, voting Labour wont change a thing in the UK but it will change Scotland, and not for the better as he hopes. I can understand why he is doing it, but its not going to have the desired effect. Apart from the fact devolution will be watered down to a fraction of what we even have just now, do people not remember why Labour lost Scotland in the first place? 

The SNP might be making poor decisions on certain policies but you could never accuse them of not having Scotland’s back .  I would never vote for any party who didn’t think we had the right to self determination. If folk want to simply be a tiny part of the UK then fine, let them continue to be plundered and take the consequences. 

I think this is how it would pan out too. Voting for 'change' for the sake of it but on the basis of what better policies from Labour? I couldn't name any proposals. They are very vocal in criticising SNP gov as though just as bad as Tories which is ironic given their bosses down South are barely diverging from current Tory policy. Labour seem to say "we'll do the same but we'll do it right" 🙄

These by-elections are an easy win for the Unionist media because of how it will be spun re desire for Independence. There's no point saying "I'd vote Yes in a referendum" when you're stamping out any chance of us having one by voting for Unionist parties. 

[Ally Bongo]

Until the SNP, particularly Yousaf and Flynn, start being honest things will continue to deteriorate

The Lisa Cameron farce this week is the latest example

When Yousaf was questioned he lied his tits off again - See previous with not knowing what a Karen is

The First Minister and leader of the SNP has never spoken to an MP that he is trying to oust - that is threatening a by election if she is ?

It's treating everyone with contempt

Be fucking honest and say it's about the GRR stance - yet they cant

[Orraloon]

13 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Until the SNP, particularly Yousaf and Flynn, start being honest things will continue to deteriorate

The Lisa Cameron farce this week is the latest example

When Yousaf was questioned he lied his tits off again - See previous with not knowing what a Karen is

The First Minister and leader of the SNP has never spoken to an MP that he is trying to oust - that is threatening a by election if she is ?

It's treating everyone with contempt

Be fucking honest and say it's about the GRR stance - yet they cant

Humza doesn't decide who stands as a candidate at a General Election. Neither did Nicola, nor Alex, before that.

[Ally Bongo]

43 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Humza doesn't decide who stands as a candidate at a General Election. Neither did Nicola, nor Alex, before that.

If you believe that i have a bridge for sale ..

[PapofGlencoe]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

There will never be a rebellion in Scotland as people are just to weak. If what has happened in the UK over the past few years isn’t enough to get people angry enough for proper change I really don’t know what will.
 

With the greatest of respect to your friend, voting Labour wont change a thing in the UK but it will change Scotland, and not for the better as he hopes. I can understand why he is doing it, but its not going to have the desired effect. Apart from the fact devolution will be watered down to a fraction of what we even have just now, do people not remember why Labour lost Scotland in the first place? 

The SNP might be making poor decisions on certain policies but you could never accuse them of not having Scotland’s back .  I would never vote for any party who didn’t think we had the right to self determination. If folk want to simply be a tiny part of the UK then fine, let them continue to be plundered and take the consequences. 

I don't agree with him by the way!  

[Alibi]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

Until the SNP, particularly Yousaf and Flynn, start being honest things will continue to deteriorate

The Lisa Cameron farce this week is the latest example

When Yousaf was questioned he lied his tits off again - See previous with not knowing what a Karen is

The First Minister and leader of the SNP has never spoken to an MP that he is trying to oust - that is threatening a by election if she is ?

It's treating everyone with contempt

Be fucking honest and say it's about the GRR stance - yet they cant

The SNP is meant to be about indy first and foremost.  If anyone thinks GRR is a ridiculous clusterfuck and refuses to adhere to the ridiculous mantra that "transwomen ARE women", it shouldn't make a blind bit of difference as far as their qualities as a candidate are concerned.  I'd wager that  more than half of current SNP MPs and MSPs do not actually think TWAW but they just daren't express that view publicly on pain of excommunication.  Whereas with other less controversial policies some leeway is often allowed.

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

Humza doesn't decide who stands as a candidate at a General Election. Neither did Nicola, nor Alex, before that.

Ally Bongo sees conspiracies everywhere he looks. 

[aaid]

40 minutes ago, Alibi said:

The SNP is meant to be about indy first and foremost.  If anyone thinks GRR is a ridiculous clusterfuck and refuses to adhere to the ridiculous mantra that "transwomen ARE women", it shouldn't make a blind bit of difference as far as their qualities as a candidate are concerned.  I'd wager that  more than half of current SNP MPs and MSPs do not actually think TWAW but they just daren't express that view publicly on pain of excommunication.  Whereas with other less controversial policies some leeway is often allowed.

There’s plenty of MPs and MSPs who have expressed gender critical views yet none have been excommunicated.  So what are you talking about?