Ukraine

[Lamia]

11 hours ago, aaid said:

Here’s someone you probably shouldn’t believe. 
 

https://twitter.com/donie/status/1497301504499322880?s=21

Well yes. But the question was who should I believe.

[Mox]

2 hours ago, thplinth said:

Mox! You old unvarnished racist you, good to see you again pal. I guess the neo nazi lure was too much for you to resist. Tremendous, I can see you now goose stepping around your basement frothing about Gammon Untermensch and the like just like the old times. One thing though, being against nazis would make me left wing and not right wing. Its politics 101 as the yanks would say. It is like a Nuremburg rally suddenly this thread. 😀

A giant hug from those cat balls to you.

There should be a team of psychologists working on you round the clock.

[thplinth]

2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

That speech sounds like the incoherent ramblings of a madman whos pissed off that western countries have banded together(nato) to prevent themselves fighting with each other and being invaded meanwhile his beloved ussr/russia has become weaker and he doesn't like that. 

That is a ridiculous summation and makes me wonder if you actually read it. Either way I don't think anything I can say make you think otherwise. So I will leave you to it.

...........................

To those out there with a more open mind about what is going on I would thoroughly recommend reading the reasons given for the intervention by the guy who ordered it. You might not agree with the reasons but Putin is always coherent, logical and concise. 

I think it will prove to be a very historic speech one way or the other. I have read it a couple of times and it is shocking hearing the president of Russia saying it. Read the speech he is not talking about Ukraine for a lot of it. I followed all of the events he discusses from the collapse of the Soviet Union, Yeltsin and Russia in the 90's and early 2000's, the Chechen war... IMHO everything he describes is accurate all the way up to today.

There is a lot more going on here than Ukraine. The US war machine (the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned the US public about in his farewell address) was desperately seeking an enemy to justify its continued existence after the soviet union collapsed and effectively unilaterally stood down. (Incidentally they killed JFK within 3 years of Eisenhower's warning because he wanted to make peace.)

So there was no peace dividend was there. Not then and not now. Because our peace dividend is their war dividend and they are not giving it up.

Instead just over 10 years after the collapse of the soviet union we had 911 and the 'war on terror.' Hmmm how convenient. That rolled on for what 20 years...

But that too was fizzling out so now we are seeing Russia and China being manufactured into the next new 'enemies'. Cold war 2.0

I really don't know how people don't notice it more. The anti Russian / Putin propaganda has been spread so thick in the last 5-10 years, it has been full on and non-stop. The BBC is mad with it... this was obviously a prelude to this moment. It has been planned for years.

The speech pretty much covers all of it (or the big stuff). It is very interesting indeed. But also really worrying. 

This is now a Cuban missile crisis in reverse. 

A couple of quotes that should concern you...

"For the United States and its allies, it is a policy of containing Russia, with obvious geopolitical dividends. For our country, it is a matter of life and death, a matter of our historical future as a nation. This is not an exaggeration; this is a fact. It is not only a very real threat to our interests but to the very existence of our state and to its sovereignty. It is the red line which we have spoken about on numerous occasions. They have crossed it."

.....

"I would now like to say something very important for those who may be tempted to interfere in these developments from the outside. No matter who tries to stand in our way or all the more so create threats for our country and our people, they must know that Russia will respond immediately, and the consequences will be such as you have never seen in your entire history. No matter how the events unfold, we are ready. All the necessary decisions in this regard have been taken. I hope that my words will be heard.

There is a lot in that speech worthy of discussion but the gist of it is that Russia has turned. I'd be very careful about what you wish for at this point.

If they are smart they will deescalate the situation. But I honestly don't think they will.

Edited February 26, 2022 by thplinth

[Och Aye]

To be honest I'm avoiding the coverage of this conflict, too depressing. Taking no sides here, however, I find it amazing after the west's actions in history people still believe our side of events and don't look into both sides of an argument.

[thplinth]

The Russians stated some years ago now that they could not match the US 'defense' spending. They cant even get close to what the US spends. It would be almost all their GDP (especially if you factor in the US black budgets).

So they announced the would be following an 'asymmetric strategy' to the US's.

The ever encroaching NATO borders and the deployment of ever improving missile interceptor technologies in these new NATO countries meant that the Russian nuclear deterrent would effectively be neutered. They would not be able to get them to their targets.

So they developed various new asymmetric strategies / technologies but the main one is hypersonic missiles and other hypersonic vehicles that can reach huge speeds and still be maneuverable as well.

Unless the US has something big up its sleave these weapons cannot be stopped. There is nothing we have to stop them. These things are travelling at 10X the speed of a bullet or something insane and they can alter course. There is nothing known that can intercept that.

So you have the asymmetric delivery systems that we cant stop and a huge nuclear arsenal. The Russians will run out of targets before they run of of nuclear bombs. This is not bullying Assad or Saddam. 

Yeah let's go kick Russia butt, yee-haw. Are you a fucking nut.

[Malcolm]

So thplinth…..     how do you suggest this situation is resolved while retaining Ukraine’s sovereignty.  Go on… very interested to hear how you think that can be achieved?

[SpecialisedOutsourcing]

15 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

To be honest I'm avoiding the coverage of this conflict, too depressing. Taking no sides here, however, I find it amazing after the west's actions in history people still believe our side of events and don't look into both sides of an argument.

Half you cunts on here would be “taking no sides” during the Battle of Britain ffs. At least we know who the real scumbags are. You’ve all self identified yourselves!

[SpecialisedOutsourcing]

If we do play Ukraine perhaps we can have a separate section In Hampden for the “taking no sides” Brigade just so our Ukrainian friends can witness them in person - and the whole world for that matter. 
rather than the pheasant feathers TA they could be the “Four Feathers TA” !

[Mox]

41 minutes ago, thplinth said:

That is a ridiculous summation and makes me wonder if you actually read it. Either way I don't think anything I can say make you think otherwise. So I will leave you to it.

...........................

To those out there with a more open mind about what is going on I would thoroughly recommend reading the reasons given for the intervention by the guy who ordered it. You might not agree with the reasons but Putin is always coherent, logical and concise. 

I think it will prove to be a very historic speech one way or the other. I have read it a couple of times and it is shocking hearing the president of Russia saying it. Read the speech he is not talking about Ukraine for a lot of it. I followed all of the events he discusses from the collapse of the Soviet Union, Yeltsin and Russia in the 90's and early 2000's, the Chechen war... IMHO everything he describes is accurate all the way up to today.

There is a lot more going on here than Ukraine. The US war machine (the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned the US public about in his farewell address) was desperately seeking an enemy to justify its continued existence after the soviet union collapsed and effectively unilaterally stood down. (Incidentally they killed JFK within 3 years of Eisenhower's warning because he wanted to make peace.)

So there was no peace dividend was there. Not then and not now. Because our peace dividend is their war dividend and they are not giving it up.

Instead just over 10 years after the collapse of the soviet union we had 911 and the 'war on terror.' Hmmm how convenient. That rolled on for what 20 years...

But that too was fizzling out so now we are seeing Russia and China being manufactured into the next new 'enemies'. Cold war 2.0

I really don't know how people don't notice it more. The anti Russian / Putin propaganda has been spread so thick in the last 5-10 years, it has been full on and non-stop. The BBC is mad with it... this was obviously a prelude to this moment. It has been planned for years.

The speech pretty much covers all of it (or the big stuff). It is very interesting indeed. But also really worrying. 

This is now a Cuban missile crisis in reverse. 

A couple of quotes that should concern you...

"For the United States and its allies, it is a policy of containing Russia, with obvious geopolitical dividends. For our country, it is a matter of life and death, a matter of our historical future as a nation. This is not an exaggeration; this is a fact. It is not only a very real threat to our interests but to the very existence of our state and to its sovereignty. It is the red line which we have spoken about on numerous occasions. They have crossed it."

.....

"I would now like to say something very important for those who may be tempted to interfere in these developments from the outside. No matter who tries to stand in our way or all the more so create threats for our country and our people, they must know that Russia will respond immediately, and the consequences will be such as you have never seen in your entire history. No matter how the events unfold, we are ready. All the necessary decisions in this regard have been taken. I hope that my words will be heard.

There is a lot in that speech worthy of discussion but the gist of it is that Russia has turned. I'd be very careful about what you wish for at this point.

If they are smart they will deescalate the situation. But I honestly don't think they will.

TLDR: I'm a crackpot.

[Mox]

22 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

To be honest I'm avoiding the coverage of this conflict, too depressing. Taking no sides here, however, I find it amazing after the west's actions in history people still believe our side of events and don't look into both sides of an argument.

And by not picking a side, you are therefore explicitly picking a side.

[thplinth]

It seems strange to come on here and call people cowards when instead you could be down the recruitment office enlisting yourself. Why are you still here?

But it makes perfect sense if you are huge skittery shite bag yellow belly chicken hawk sitting in an armchair pushing for a war in which other people will get killed.

That is why a (suicidal) part of me does hope they get their war. I don't think they will get too much time to reflect on their mistake though. Hypersonic missiles and hydrogen bombs don't give you a lot of time for navel gazing. 

I suggest you join the navy, get yourself on a carrier... you'll be safe there for sure.

[Orraloon]

43 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

To be honest I'm avoiding the coverage of this conflict, too depressing. Taking no sides here, however, I find it amazing after the west's actions in history people still believe our side of events and don't look into both sides of an argument.

👍

[Och Aye]

33 minutes ago, SpecialisedOutsourcing said:

Half you cunts on here would be “taking no sides” during the Battle of Britain ffs. At least we know who the real scumbags are. You’ve all self identified yourselves!

You're a fuckin idiot

[Mox]

8 minutes ago, thplinth said:

It seems strange to come on here and call people cowards when instead you could be down the recruitment office enlisting yourself. Why are you still here?

But it makes perfect sense if you are huge skittery shite bag yellow belly chicken hawk sitting in an armchair pushing for a war in which other people will get killed.

That is why a (suicidal) part of me does hope they get their war. I don't think they will get too much time to reflect on their mistake though. Hypersonic missiles and hydrogen bombs don't give you a lot of time for navel gazing. 

I suggest you join the navy, get yourself on a carrier... you'll be safe there for sure.

I didn't call anyone cowards and i've not pushed for war, you've made that up, which is entirely on brand for you.

As for your ' WhY DOn'T you go ANd Fight Ya BIg ShitEBAg' is just classic nonsense form you right wing, rabbit hole freaks. You people are beyond sad, you've spent the last decade of your life alienating everyone around you, you've no mates anymore, you've no family interested in engaging with you and all because you've been radicalised online and think Bill Gates watches you wanking to teen asian porn. You're vulnerable, you and others like you need genuine help, you need to engage with adult services because you're a danger to yourselves and other. And you are a massive Gammon cunt.

[Malcolm]

14 minutes ago, thplinth said:

It seems strange to come on here and call people cowards when instead you could be down the recruitment office enlisting yourself. Why are you still here?

But it makes perfect sense if you are huge skittery shite bag yellow belly chicken hawk sitting in an armchair pushing for a war in which other people will get killed.

That is why a (suicidal) part of me does hope they get their war. I don't think they will get too much time to reflect on their mistake though. Hypersonic missiles and hydrogen bombs don't give you a lot of time for navel gazing. 

I suggest you join the navy, get yourself on a carrier... you'll be safe there for sure.

still no suggestion from you on how this can be resolved….

[Och Aye]

37 minutes ago, Mox said:

And by not picking a side, you are therefore explicitly picking a side.

When Aberdeen play Dundee United I'm not on either side. Which side am I on?

[thplinth]

6 minutes ago, Mox said:

I didn't call anyone cowards and i've not pushed for war, you've made that up, which is entirely on brand for you.

As for your ' WhY DOn'T you go ANd Fight Ya BIg ShitEBAg' is just classic nonsense form you right wing, rabbit hole freaks. You people are beyond sad, you've spent the last decade of your life alienating everyone around you, you've no mates anymore, you've no family interested in engaging with you and all because you've been radicalised online and think Bill Gates watches you wanking to teen asian porn. You're vulnerable, you and others like you need genuine help, you need to engage with adult services because you're a danger to yourselves and other. And you are a massive Gammon cunt.

The post you are replying to was to our friend specialized above not you Mox. Dearie me you are having an absolute mare here yet again. 

But that is quite some outburst. 😀 Wow. 

Does not indicate mental health issues at all.

Enjoy the rest of your day / seethe in whatever hospital you are posting from. I urgently need to be doing something somewhere else. Bye.

[thplinth]

15 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

still no suggestion from you on how this can be resolved….

You were calling me a dick a page back but now I owe you an explanation on how to resolve the Ukraine situation... 😀

Stick it up your hole. That is my suggestion. I am off out now. Been fun as never.

 

[thplinth]

47 minutes ago, Mox said:

And by not picking a side, you are therefore explicitly picking a side.

Yes do explain this more as it appears to be classic Mox idiotic shite.

By not picking a side you are explicitly (not even implicitly but explicitly) picking a side... wow that is deep and also.... total gibberish. 😀

[Malcolm]

7 minutes ago, thplinth said:

You were calling me a dick a page back but now I owe you an explanation on how to resolve the Ukraine situation... 😀

Stick it up your hole. That is my suggestion. I am off out now. Been fun as never.

 

you don’t owe me anything.  Having criticised many here for suggesting military support for the Ukrainians, I thought you would want to suggest an appropriate alternative 

[thplinth]

This is at least the second time but maybe the third time I have been racially abused by this same poster. It is not what you really expect posting on the TAMB (an anonymous message board) to discuss Ukraine. 😀 

[Och Aye]

1 hour ago, SpecialisedOutsourcing said:

If we do play Ukraine perhaps we can have a separate section In Hampden for the “taking no sides” Brigade just so our Ukrainian friends can witness them in person - and the whole world for that matter. 
rather than the pheasant feathers TA they could be the “Four Feathers TA” !

Would your section be sponsored by the Daily Mail ?

[thplinth]

Steaming into Ukraine with NATO armed forces and effectively attacking the Russian armed forces is what I would definitely not do. Reading all the gung-ho bullshite on here was really starting to grate.

Personally I would overthrow the coup and restore democracy. Demilitarize and de-nazify Ukraine. You would not get away with forming neo nazi militias in any EU country so why are they allowed in Ukraine. Make them illegal like they are elsewhere and enforce the law. NATO membership off the cards permanently. If Donbass etc want to rejoin Russia again, they should have the democratic right to do so. We want our referendum to leave the UK but deny them theirs to leave the Ukraine, why. Or in other words back down and stay the fuck out of it.

But the whole crisis has been engineered by the US and allies. We have done this. So either the goal was to provoke this intervention only, to kick start a new cold war (in which case they will back down and let Russia get on with it) or they are crazy enough to make it into a hot war.

After seeing all the carnage inflicted around the middle east, the creation of ISIS and their depravity and cruelty, and the complete disregard for human life and suffering, I would not put anything past them at this point. They are capable of anything.

[Och Aye]

3 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Steaming into Ukraine with NATO armed forces and effectively attacking the Russian armed forces is what I would definitely not do. Reading all the gung-ho bullshite on here was really starting to grate.

Personally I would overthrow the coup and restore democracy. Demilitarize and de-nazify Ukraine. You would not get away with forming neo nazi militias in any EU country so why are they allowed in Ukraine. Make them illegal like they are elsewhere and enforce the law. NATO membership off the cards permanently. If Donbass etc want to rejoin Russia again, they should have the democratic right to do so. We want our referendum to leave the UK but deny them theirs to leave the Ukraine, why. Or in other words back down and stay the fuck out of it.

But the whole crisis has been engineered by the US and allies. We have done this. So either the goal was to provoke this intervention only, to kick start a new cold war (in which case they will back down and let Russia get on with it) or they are crazy enough to make it into a hot war.

After seeing all the carnage inflicted around the middle east, the creation of ISIS and their depravity and cruelty, and the complete disregard for human life and suffering, I would not put anything past them at this point. They are capable of anything.

Ah but what side are you on?

Apparently we all have to take a side. Doesn't matter if you are fully aware of recent history in Ukraine or not. Just make a blind snap decision man!

Don't want to end up in that logical section of Hampden, who knows what people might think.

Looking at both sides of an argument indeed! 🙄

[hampden_loon2878]

Ukraine IMO is lost and the line needs to be drawn that we cant let them cross any other borders, i feel for Ukraine as they seem to have been led down the garden path to and extent by the Americans. The statement from putin is frightening and his body language even more so. I honestly think he is capable of anything 

Edited February 26, 2022 by hampden_loon2878