Scottish players in action 21/22

[syecosse]

A few youngsters on loan doing well in the lower english leagues.

Michael Mellon with another goal on loan at Burnley, rumours have him linked with moves in Jan. Burnley maybe wanting to send him on loan higher up the divisions, League 1 leaders Portsmouth interested. 

Rob Apter is up for player of the month in league 2, loan from Blackpool.

Marc Leonard who is permanently getting praise, seen a post from the Cambridge utd media guy claiming he is the best player he ever seen in league 2 and up there in league 1. 

[JECK]

KT is starting 

[breeks_mctavish]

No exaggeration to say McGinn must be one of the players of the season so far in the Premier League

[JECK]

Indications Christie has shown up well v Man Utd today and he’s playing in the deeper midfield role again. Gilmour comes on at start of 2nd half today.

[Kirk]

1 hour ago, breeks_mctavish said:

No exaggeration to say McGinn must be one of the players of the season so far in the Premier League

He's been outstanding, I've watched the last few games and he really is unreal. If he was English he'd have 100 mil on him no bother. He can do everything. Just need to keep him fit for next year

[mccaughey85]

Our epl players seem to be doing well right now. Hopefully they keep it going through to the euros. We want a squad full of confidence and guys in form.

[Bobby Russell's Lovechild]

Looks like Tierney was excellent tonight

[Diamond Scot]

7 hours ago, Scot1 said:

I disagree, Hickey could be played in defensive midfield without playing there for Brentford. There’s plenty of examples where this has happened. Even within our own team, Robertson hadn’t  played left wing back before at club football, Tierney hadn’t played as a left centre half before at club level. I think it would be worth a try, Hickey’s profile and from what I’ve seen of him playing suggests to me that he could adapt to the position and pretty quickly. But you never know how these things turn out until you try. Tierney adapted almost instantly, Robertson took a little longer, but has been fantastic as a left wing back for some time now. 
I think we do really need a defensive/holding midfielder as the finishing piece to the team. It would make us better defensively and allow more freedom to McGregor who in my opinion is best as an attacking playmaker, not as a deep sitting playmaker. I believe that Celtic have made this very adjustment just recently in their match against Hibs. It would also allow McTominay to play his natural box-box game knowing there’s cover behind him in central midfield. 
If Hickey was to move into midfield, it would allow Patterson to play, again I think this would help us offensively without detracting from us defensively. Patterson isn’t getting much game time at the moment, hopefully that will change and he’ll get more time as Everton have a pretty small squad and a lot of games coming up over the festive period. But Patterson will be very fit, regardless. Dyche has his squad very fit and it’s been noticeable since he took over at Everton how fitter the players look. 
I also see that Leon King is playing as defensive midfield for Scotland u21’s, and they are going well at the moment. I don’t believe he played there for Rangers, I think he only ever played as a Centre Halve?

Theres no guarantees it would work with Hickey, but I think it’s worth trying in the upcoming friendlies because it’s a position I feel needs filled in midfield. In fact I can’t really think of any team who doesn’t play with a defensive/holding midfielder except us. 

I dont neccesarily disagree with your post however who would you have as 2nd choice right back then for if Paterson got booked early doors, got injured etc?

Would you then slot Hickey back to RB and have to change several other players positions at the same time or put in a considerably less talented RB?

Another thing to note that effectively you would be leaving Gilmour out to accomodate Paterson. I know which one id rather have in my team.

[Scot1]

18 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

I dont neccesarily disagree with your post however who would you have as 2nd choice right back then for if Paterson got booked early doors, got injured etc?

Would you then slot Hickey back to RB and have to change several other players positions at the same time or put in a considerably less talented RB?

Another thing to note that effectively you would be leaving Gilmour out to accomodate Paterson. I know which one id rather have in my team.

Yes, you’d probably have to move Hickey back to wing back and bring on someone like Kenny McLean to play in midfield. 
As far as having Patterson in the team instead of Gilmour, I’m of the opinion that it’s either McGregor or Gilmour for the 1 position. I’m not convinced that having both in central midfield works consistently. There have been games when it looks good and other games where it seems like 2 players trying to do the same job. Id give McGregor the nod over Gilmour at the moment, I think he offer a bit more than Gilmour at the moment. 
I also think playing both of them in Central midfield leaves us a bit lightweight physically in the middle of the park. Which is another reason for playing someone like Hickey who is a bit bigger, stronger. 
Christie is also playing a similar role as a playmaker for Bournemouth and has apparently been doing well, so there’s another player who can fulfil the role besides Gilmour and McGregor, if needed.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Scot1

[theabsentee]

26 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

I dont neccesarily disagree with your post however who would you have as 2nd choice right back then for if Paterson got booked early doors, got injured etc?

Would you then slot Hickey back to RB and have to change several other players positions at the same time or put in a considerably less talented RB?

Another thing to note that effectively you would be leaving Gilmour out to accomodate Paterson. I know which one id rather have in my team.

Livramento, we can dream 🤣

I agree with both of you to certain extent.  Scot1 is totally right we are desperate for a quality defensive midfielder to protect our average centre backs. None of our first choice midfielders suit that role , the only squad member that does is Jack & he can't stay fit long enough to prove one way or the other if he is past his best.  We are very vulnerable in this area against top opposition.

   You are also right though, another right back needs to emerge, maybe Ramsey or Johnston but they aren't ready yet.

[mccaughey85]

4 hours ago, syecosse said:

A few youngsters on loan doing well in the lower english leagues.

Michael Mellon with another goal on loan at Burnley, rumours have him linked with moves in Jan. Burnley maybe wanting to send him on loan higher up the divisions, League 1 leaders Portsmouth interested. 

Rob Apter is up for player of the month in league 2, loan from Blackpool.

Marc Leonard who is permanently getting praise, seen a post from the Cambridge utd media guy claiming he is the best player he ever seen in league 2 and up there in league 1. 

Seems like Mellon might have some potential. I think a full season at Morecambe might be a better option rather than moving in January to some league 1 side. He can easy do that next season and only be 20 year old.

[Diamond Scot]

56 minutes ago, theabsentee said:

Livramento, we can dream 🤣

I agree with both of you to certain extent.  Scot1 is totally right we are desperate for a quality defensive midfielder to protect our average centre backs. None of our first choice midfielders suit that role , the only squad member that does is Jack & he can't stay fit long enough to prove one way or the other if he is past his best.  We are very vulnerable in this area against top opposition.

   You are also right though, another right back needs to emerge, maybe Ramsey or Johnston but they aren't ready yet.

I agree that we dont currently have a decent holding midfielder but we only need one when playing 4 at the back. The majority of the time when we have played a 5 we have looked quite solid.

So in reality you would be taking our best RB away to put him into midfield presummably to play 4 at the back. A formattion where Paterson is less effective than 5 at the back.

The easier solution is for games against similar opposition we play McGreggor and Gilmour deep with McTom and McGinn in front. For better teams we play McGreggor, McTom and either Jack or McLean deep with only McGinn in front. Allowing McTom to get forward when possible.

[HighlandScot]

For holding midfield, Jack is not the player he once was. I think Hickey would be ideal for that role. Another potential candidate though is Souttar. Ok like Hickey he would be playing out of his regular position, but like Hickey has all the attributes, and likely could easily adapt. I would not say I am normally in agreement with Craig Levein, but he touted Souttar as holding midfielder.

[Scot1]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

I agree that we dont currently have a decent holding midfielder but we only need one when playing 4 at the back. The majority of the time when we have played a 5 we have looked quite solid.

So in reality you would be taking our best RB away to put him into midfield presummably to play 4 at the back. A formattion where Paterson is less effective than 5 at the back.

The easier solution is for games against similar opposition we play McGreggor and Gilmour deep with McTom and McGinn in front. For better teams we play McGreggor, McTom and either Jack or McLean deep with only McGinn in front. Allowing McTom to get forward when possible.

I believe to get the best out of McGregor and McTominay we need a holding midfielder, even when we play 3/5 at the back. A lot of posters here, seem worried about where the goals will come from since we have a limited choice of centre forwards, none of which are of the same quality as the majority of the rest of the squad. I think the way we become better offensively is to get the most out of the players we have already. I think to get the most out of the players we have, we really need a defensive midfielder to give the likes of McGregor, McTominay the freedom to be more involved offensively. Our left side, Robertson / Tierney is quality, and offensively Robertson especially has been immense. I think we need more threat from our right, I think Patterson is the best attacking right-wing back that we have. 
Our formation, 3/5 at the back is at times a very attacking formation, there are times when both wing backs, nearly all the midfield and the forwards are high up the pitch in and around the opponents box. And at times Tierney is also up there. And it’s either (depending who is playing) Gilmour or McGregor sitting deep. In my opinion you want someone else sitting deep and McGregor higher up orchestrating the attacks. I think that’s what he’s best at. 
That’s why I think a defensive midfielder could help us offensively. Rather than looking for another striker or Harvey Barnes etc. I think the squad we have can be more effective with a little tweaking. For example look at the performances of McTominay since he was allowed to play higher up the pitch, McGinn also. I think McGregor would also benefit from being given more of a license to get forward and join in offensively.  

Edited December 9, 2023 by Scot1

[Scot1]

51 minutes ago, HighlandScot said:

For holding midfield, Jack is not the player he once was. I think Hickey would be ideal for that role. Another potential candidate though is Souttar. Ok like Hickey he would be playing out of his regular position, but like Hickey has all the attributes, and likely could easily adapt. I would not say I am normally in agreement with Craig Levein, but he touted Souttar as holding midfielder.

I always had doubts about Jacks mobility as a defensive midfielder, he is quality on the ball, but off the ball, I have always had doubts. 
Souttar would be an interesting possibility, I’m sure Porteous played a similar role briefly for Hibs at one point. 

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, Scot1 said:

I believe to get the best out of McGregor and McTominay we need a holding midfielder, even when we play 3/5 at the back. A lot of posters here, seem worried about where the goals will come from since we have a limited choice of centre forwards, none of which are of the same quality as the majority of the rest of the squad. I think the way we become better offensively is to get the most out of the players we have already. I think to get the most out of the players we have, we really need a defensive midfielder to give the likes of McGregor, McTominay the freedom to be more involved offensively. Our left side, Robertson / Tierney is quality, and offensively Robertson especially has been immense. I think we need more threat from our right, I think Patterson is the best attacking right-wing back that we have. 
Our formation, 3/5 at the back is at times a very attacking formation, there are times when both wing backs, nearly all the midfield and the forwards are high up the pitch in and around the opponents box. And at times Tierney is also up there. And it’s either (depending who is playing) Gilmour or McGregor sitting deep. In my opinion you want someone else sitting deep and McGregor higher up orchestrating the attacks. I think that’s what he’s best at. 
That’s why I think a defensive midfielder could help us offensively. Rather than looking for another striker or Harvey Barnes etc. I think the squad we have can be more effective with a little tweaking. For example look at the performances of McTominay since he was allowed to play higher up the pitch, McGinn also. I think McGregor would also benefit from being given more of a license to get forward and join in offensively.  

You think to get the best out of McTom he needs a holding midfielder after just scoring 7 goals from open play despite not even starting the 1st game? 

Paterson is better than Hickey going forward however Hickey is light years better than Paterson defensively. This is important for Scotland as McGinn tends to play on the right for Scotland and although McGinn has many attributes and brings loads to the team, covering back is not one of them. Its the opposite on the left, as you say both Robertson and Tierney like to get forward but are both good defensively and tend to cover each other, in addition the left attacking mid has either been McTom, Christie or Armstrong. All 3 of whom are workhorses and provide great defensive cover.

Id also disagree about McGreggor, his best position imo is deep playmaker, he is our tempo setter, keeps the ball moving and is also good for organising the guy playing alongside him. Do you think he plays the high tempo high energy attacking mid role as good as McGinn, McTom, Armstrong or Christie?

I totally get the want for a defensive mid but as I said, what game when we have played a 5 has it been really obvious that we need one? Everytime we have been hopelessly exposed its been when we play a 4.

[BookhouseBoys]

When we play a five at the back, it’s effectively Tierney that fulfills the roll of DM as he steps forward into that area frequently. For me, that’s one of the reasons that he’s such a big miss - no one else that we’ve tried in that position does (or can do) what he does. To his credit, Porteous has been pretty decent at replicating it on the right, albeit slightly more conservative positionally and instead focussing on forward passes.

Maybe having Hickey in the LCB if Tierney is out would be a potential solution? 

If Tierney is available, I’m picking Hickey over Patterson at RWB every time at the moment, though. That slip aside, he was one of our best performers throughout the qualifying campaign.

RE McGregor & Gilmour, I think that if he continues with the progression of recent weeks at Brighton for the rest of the season, Gilmour will be ahead of McGregor in almost every category. His improvement recently has been rapid and DeZerbi has been commenting on it.

McGregor is still slightly ahead of him if it’s one or the other right now, though. By the time of the euros, we’ll see…

[Scot1]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

You think to get the best out of McTom he needs a holding midfielder after just scoring 7 goals from open play despite not even starting the 1st game? 

Paterson is better than Hickey going forward however Hickey is light years better than Paterson defensively. This is important for Scotland as McGinn tends to play on the right for Scotland and although McGinn has many attributes and brings loads to the team, covering back is not one of them. Its the opposite on the left, as you say both Robertson and Tierney like to get forward but are both good defensively and tend to cover each other, in addition the left attacking mid has either been McTom, Christie or Armstrong. All 3 of whom are workhorses and provide great defensive cover.

Id also disagree about McGreggor, his best position imo is deep playmaker, he is our tempo setter, keeps the ball moving and is also good for organising the guy playing alongside him. Do you think he plays the high tempo high energy attacking mid role as good as McGinn, McTom, Armstrong or Christie?

I totally get the want for a defensive mid but as I said, what game when we have played a 5 has it been really obvious that we need one? Everytime we have been hopelessly exposed its been when we play a 4.

Again it’s all about opinions. Yes McTominay needs a defensive midfielder to sit behind him, he’s not great defensively, and he enjoys getting forward at every opportunity, which we want to encourage. So to fill the whole left behind McTominay we need someone to sit and facilitate McTominay going forward, this will also allow him to press higher up the pitch alongside the forward and McGinn. 
I’ve watched plenty of Patterson and Hickey and I’d agree that Hickey is better defensively, but he’s not “light years” ahead of Patterson. I’ve watched enough of Hickey at Bologna and Brentford to see that he very, very rarely has any contribution to goals or in the build up to goals from either full back position or wing back. He offers next to nothing offensively. I don’t think he has scored a goal yet for Brentford or Scotland for that matter. The goals I recall him scoring at a couple at Bologna from the edge of the box, when the ball has came to him from opposition defending a corner. He’s played 35 games for Brentford with 0 goals and 1 assist. He’s played 14 times for Scotland, 0 goals, 0 assists. Now obviously I’m not expecting goals and assists galore from Hickey, but he offers almost nothing offensively. For us to score more goals we need a right wing back that offers something in attack. 
I think you are getting players mixed up, McTominay plays on the right, Christie and Armstrong on the left. As far as McGinn, I prefer him when he plays as a number 10 and given a free role to find space wherever it is. 
I agree, McGregor is our metronome, playmaker but I prefer to see him given more of a free role to drift deep and to push forward, not just sit. There are times he’s done this for Scotland and it’s been Gilmour who is usually left to sit in front of the defence. But I just don’t like Gilmour there. I’d much prefer someone like Hickey, someone with a bit more physicality, pace, mobility, stronger in the tackle to be in front of the defence.
“Do you think he plays the high tempo high energy attacking mid role as good as McGinn, McTom, Armstrong or Christie?” No, but it’s a different role, I want to see him orchestrate these players, not try to be McGinn or McTominay. I think he will do that more effectively if he is allowed the freedom to move up with play, rather than sit. The question might be, can Christie do the job better than McGregor come the Euros, because he seems to be playing a very similar role for Bournemouth at the moment and by all accounts doing very well. 
Again the question was, is “can this team/squad be better when we get to Germany?”. I’ve given my opinion on how I believe we can be better offensively without any “new” players. I think it would improve us offensively and defensively. 

[mccaughey85]

Super John mcginn

[Diamond Scot]

4 hours ago, Scot1 said:

Again it’s all about opinions. Yes McTominay needs a defensive midfielder to sit behind him, he’s not great defensively, and he enjoys getting forward at every opportunity, which we want to encourage. So to fill the whole left behind McTominay we need someone to sit and facilitate McTominay going forward, this will also allow him to press higher up the pitch alongside the forward and McGinn. 
I’ve watched plenty of Patterson and Hickey and I’d agree that Hickey is better defensively, but he’s not “light years” ahead of Patterson. I’ve watched enough of Hickey at Bologna and Brentford to see that he very, very rarely has any contribution to goals or in the build up to goals from either full back position or wing back. He offers next to nothing offensively. I don’t think he has scored a goal yet for Brentford or Scotland for that matter. The goals I recall him scoring at a couple at Bologna from the edge of the box, when the ball has came to him from opposition defending a corner. He’s played 35 games for Brentford with 0 goals and 1 assist. He’s played 14 times for Scotland, 0 goals, 0 assists. Now obviously I’m not expecting goals and assists galore from Hickey, but he offers almost nothing offensively. For us to score more goals we need a right wing back that offers something in attack. 
I think you are getting players mixed up, McTominay plays on the right, Christie and Armstrong on the left. As far as McGinn, I prefer him when he plays as a number 10 and given a free role to find space wherever it is. 
I agree, McGregor is our metronome, playmaker but I prefer to see him given more of a free role to drift deep and to push forward, not just sit. There are times he’s done this for Scotland and it’s been Gilmour who is usually left to sit in front of the defence. But I just don’t like Gilmour there. I’d much prefer someone like Hickey, someone with a bit more physicality, pace, mobility, stronger in the tackle to be in front of the defence.
“Do you think he plays the high tempo high energy attacking mid role as good as McGinn, McTom, Armstrong or Christie?” No, but it’s a different role, I want to see him orchestrate these players, not try to be McGinn or McTominay. I think he will do that more effectively if he is allowed the freedom to move up with play, rather than sit. The question might be, can Christie do the job better than McGregor come the Euros, because he seems to be playing a very similar role for Bournemouth at the moment and by all accounts doing very well. 
Again the question was, is “can this team/squad be better when we get to Germany?”. I’ve given my opinion on how I believe we can be better offensively without any “new” players. I think it would improve us offensively and defensively. 

All McTom needs to score goals is to play in one of the 2 attacking midfield roles. The last campaign literally proves that. It could be argued that changing things and having McGreggor operate a new role, getting forward more etc could hinder McToms goalscoring.

We play with 4 in midfield. 2 playing deep and 2 playing further forward. Currently McGinn plays on the right and McTom on the left (when they both play further forward). Both have proven that they not only can but will score reguarly for Scotland in those positions as things are. Why would we change how we play in an attempt to have them score more?

If you are using stats then go and look at Hickeys individual defensive stats compared to Patersons. They are light years apart defensively. Paterson is not a good defender. Hence why he is 3rd choice RB at Everton. He is good going forward and suits the RWB role, especially in some games for Scotland where we dont need to worry about the opposition attack as much.

Thankfully Clarke has his system and I cant see him ripping it up at this stage. McGreggors best performances for Scotland have come in the last few years playing his current role. As have McToms and McGinns. The main question imo is what games to play Gilmour in because in some games he dictates play and in others he looks to weaken us. As I said previously, I suspect against Germany McTom will play deeper with Christie / Armstrong beside McGinn. In the other 2 games it might be Gilmour with McTom and McGinn.

[BryanBlessed]

Quote

Thankfully Clarke has his system and I cant see him ripping it up at this stage.

And it would be fairly out of character for him to do so unless circumstances force it. Regarding Patterson, either through bad luck or everyone getting a little bit overexcited about him, he hasn't really developed as much as hoped and he isn't getting enough game time to do so.  I'd sacrifice his attacking abilities for Hickey's defensive abilities any day of the week. That's especially true when you consider that our CB's are hardly worldnbeaters.

[mccaughey85]

Maybe bet to give Christie a chance in the deeper midfield role next to McGregor in our friendlies. He seems to be doing well there for Bournemouth.

[Scot1]

2 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

All McTom needs to score goals is to play in one of the 2 attacking midfield roles. The last campaign literally proves that. It could be argued that changing things and having McGreggor operate a new role, getting forward more etc could hinder McToms goalscoring.

We play with 4 in midfield. 2 playing deep and 2 playing further forward. Currently McGinn plays on the right and McTom on the left (when they both play further forward). Both have proven that they not only can but will score reguarly for Scotland in those positions as things are. Why would we change how we play in an attempt to have them score more?

If you are using stats then go and look at Hickeys individual defensive stats compared to Patersons. They are light years apart defensively. Paterson is not a good defender. Hence why he is 3rd choice RB at Everton. He is good going forward and suits the RWB role, especially in some games for Scotland where we dont need to worry about the opposition attack as much.

Thankfully Clarke has his system and I cant see him ripping it up at this stage. McGreggors best performances for Scotland have come in the last few years playing his current role. As have McToms and McGinns. The main question imo is what games to play Gilmour in because in some games he dictates play and in others he looks to weaken us. As I said previously, I suspect against Germany McTom will play deeper with Christie / Armstrong beside McGinn. In the other 2 games it might be Gilmour with McTom and McGinn.

It all depends on how you want to play the game, I believe that if you want to go to Germany and sit in against the teams in our group and try to hit on the counter then stick with how we are set up. Or go to Germany and try to dominate games? I believe with the proper set up we can go and take the game to Hungary and Switzerland. We have the players in midfield and the wingbacks to do so. But I think you need a balanced  midfield, a good defensive midfielder to do that.

I’m not really a stats guy, but if you look at the Nathan Patterson’s thread on the Everton forum. There are guys there that were putting up stats that showed that Patterson was among the top young full backs playing in the top leagues in Europe for his defensive stats. Patterson isn’t a bad defender. He’s played against top wingers like Mitoma, Luis Diaz, Foden etc and had good games against them. You’ll also see on this thread and the Ashley Young thread the disbelief amongst Everton fans as to why Ashley Young has been starting games ahead of Patterson, Young has been terrible at both left and right back and he’s been sent off against Liverpool, constantly booked for fouling wingers who’ve got past him, he’s been directly responsible for penalties against Everton and goals scored against. Patterson has done none of the above and has actually started to get assists before Young took his place and recently in their last game coming on as a sub against Newcastle, again something Young doesn’t do as he rarely ventures over the half way line. Young had his best game for Everton recently against Newcastle playing as a right sided midfielder / winger. 
You’ve got the players positions mixed up, McTominay plays on the right, if you look at  his goals a number come from the fact that he has made runs from right to left because our offense nearly always comes down the left, but he does play on the right. 
Why would I want to change the way we set up? Because I believe we can be a better team with a couple of tweaks, and I believe if set up correctly we can take the game to good teams rather than just be a counter attacking outfit. I believe we can get some more from this squad of players. And I also believe we will need to get more or we won’t do much in Germany. I think it would be a mistake to go to Germany and sit in against Hungary and Switzerland, even the Germans. I think we should have a go at the Germans, take the game to them, they’re not a great German side. They’ve obviously got some excellent players, but they’re not a great team. 
My suggestions are hardly ripping up the template, a couple of adjustments nothing major but I think they would have a positive affect on how we play. 
If I was the manager of Hungary or Switzerland I’d be looking at our games against Ukraine and Ireland where our midfield was basically made ineffective, because it’s basically the same set up in central midfield. 
 

[Scot1]

2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Maybe bet to give Christie a chance in the deeper midfield role next to McGregor in our friendlies. He seems to be doing well there for Bournemouth.

They are both playing the same role, it would be one or the other.

[bdgsct]

If experimenting I'd sooner try Hickey at Right of a back 3 with Patterson at wing back. It does leave us short of options in these positions of the bench but probably improves our 11 with Hendry or Porteus dropping out.