The news thread

[Hertsscot]

34 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

i said right at the start of this debate that it was a complex historical problem.  I personally don’t see how it can be solved but what may happen is Gaza will be occupied by Israel with Palestinians fleeing to other countries and whether you believe that is the right outcome is a different debate.

Yes there is a fundamental difference between Israel and Hamas.  Israel are not actively targeting civilians.Hamas are terrorists.

You may be right that the end game for Israel is simply to drive the Palestinians out of Gaza. From their point of view it makes some sense.

Quite where the Palestinians go is anyone's guess. I don't think Egypt will be keen on huge numbers of refugees particularly if they believe that a significant number are radicalised and will pose a threat to their own internal security.

Of course how other Middle East countries react, is also unpredictable.

[Toepoke]

Question Time last night was interesting, the panel mainly pro Israel, the audience pro Palestine.

 

[Hertsscot]

5 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Agreed. I've seen videos, mainly from America where both side are protesting and both side have resorted to violence.

It's a side point but all the stuff on social media from a few years back about how the COVID pandemic would lead to a more caring world hasn't fared well.

[Toepoke]

2 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Quite where the Palestinians go is anyone's guess. I don't think Egypt will be keen on huge numbers of refugees particularly if they believe that a significant number are radicalised and will pose a threat to their own internal security.

Hopefully loads end up in Suella Braverman's constituency.

 

[Malcolm]

30 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

 

You are all over the place here, to start with you say its complex historical problem but you finish with a very black and white statement

Israel are targeting civilians by actively keeping civilians living in squalor to drive them from their homes in the name of zionism. If you do this long enough to will make the oppressed hate you and they will grow up to hate you and the oppressed will eventually bite back by any means available to them. 

Well read read my arse

 

 

 

israel is defending herself. i don’t like seeing innocent people suffer on either side, but how otherwise does israel protect its people?

the fundamentals here are whether you believe it was right for Israel to be created in the first place and its right to exist now. 

if you are so clever, whats your solution to the problem?

 

 

[vanderark14]

1 minute ago, Malcolm said:

israel is defending herself. i don’t like seeing innocent people suffer on either side, but how otherwise does israel protect its people?

the fundamentals here are whether you believe it was right for Israel to be created in the first place and its right to exist now. 

if you are so clever, whats your solution to the problem?

 

 

I'm not the one professing to be clever, ill leave that to you. I won't pretend to be clever enough to have a solution to this problem.

 

 

[vanderark14]

Al jazeera reporting that Israel is using white phosphorus. Not verified

1.1m civilians ordered to leave gaza by the Israelis by today. Sounds feasible.

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

Question Time last night was interesting, the panel mainly pro Israel, the audience pro Palestine.

 

You actually watched that after the Scotland game. Are you some sort of masochist?

[vanderark14]

 

[Orraloon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-67100648

[vanderark14]

3 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-67100648

It will be interesting to see if she was supporting hamas or the palestinian people

[Toepoke]

48 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-67100648

The next Celtic game will be interesting.

 

[Toepoke]

3 hours ago, aaid said:

You actually watched that after the Scotland game. Are you some sort of masochist?

I'm in the TA, of course I'm a masochist 😁

[vanderark14]

26 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

The next Celtic game will be interesting.

 

I'd like to know what the definition of supporting hamas is

[Hertsscot]

24 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I'd like to know what the definition of supporting hamas is

Unfortunately the UK Government and the right wing press cannot distinguish between being critical of the state of Israel and anti-Semitism, so I'm not confident that they have the intelligence (or desire) to see the considerable difference between being pro-Palestinan and pro-Hamas.

[aaid]

23 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I'd like to know what the definition of supporting hamas is

Someone who lived in the same street as me got jailed a few years back for supporting ISIS.  AFAIK, he was speaking at a meeting where he was encouraging people to go to Syria and join up, so it would pretty much be a slam dunk offence.

I saw something earlier in the week which I thought was important.

Its not just the words but the context which is very important,.

It was a picture of Free Palestine painted on a railway bridge with a tube train going over it, which puts it in London.  If that had been in say, Tower Hamlets, then you probably wouldn’t think twice about it.  However, it wasn’t it was in Golders Green, which is obviously a massive Jewish area and so it would be safe to assume that the intent had probably a more threatening intent.

[vanderark14]

7 minutes ago, aaid said:

Someone who lived in the same street as me got jailed a few years back for supporting ISIS.  AFAIK, he was speaking at a meeting where he was encouraging people to go to Syria and join up, so it would pretty much be a slam dunk offence.

I saw something earlier in the week which I thought was important.

Its not just the words but the context which is very important,.

It was a picture of Free Palestine painted on a railway bridge with a tube train going over it, which puts it in London.  If that had been in say, Tower Hamlets, then you probably wouldn’t think twice about it.  However, it wasn’t it was in Golders Green, which is obviously a massive Jewish area and so it would be safe to assume that the intent had probably a more threatening intent.

This situation is really dividing opinion. I have many clients in and around your area so you will know what I mean. 

Some of the social media posts I've seen from these clients is very radical, some with extreme views towards the UK as well as Israel. 

[vanderark14]

15 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Unfortunately the UK Government and the right wing press cannot distinguish between being critical of the state of Israel and anti-Semitism, so I'm not confident that they have the intelligence (or desire) to see the considerable difference between being pro-Palestinan and pro-Hamas.

Exactly this.

[Orraloon]

I wonder if Suella will totally lose her shit if she finds out Dundee is still twinned with Nablus?

[Orraloon]

I did wonder how long it would take before it was all Russia's fault. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67099574

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

2 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Unfortunately the UK Government and the right wing press cannot distinguish between being critical of the state of Israel and anti-Semitism, so I'm not confident that they have the intelligence (or desire) to see the considerable difference between being pro-Palestinan and pro-Hamas.

And the left , the difference between a militant and a terrorist ( although legally defined thus )

i always thought a militant was a striking coal miner etc

one mans militant is another mans freedom fighter

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said:

And the left , the difference between a militant and a terrorist ( although legally defined thus )

i always thought a militant was a striking coal miner etc

one mans militant is another mans freedom fighter

Fair comment, although I think you can possibly draw a distinction between legitimate targets i.e. military or political (freedom fighter) and the indiscriminate deliberate murder of men, women and children (terrorist). I agree with you militant is a bit of a euphemism.

I've seen a few comments about the timing of this and how it is to derail the normalising of relationships between Israel and Saudi which would be anathema to Hamas.

[aaid]

5 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

I've seen a few comments about the timing of this and how it is to derail the normalising of relationships between Israel and Saudi which would be anathema to Hamas.

I suspect that’s true. 

[Clyde1998]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

I've seen a few comments about the timing of this and how it is to derail the normalising of relationships between Israel and Saudi which would be anathema to Hamas.

I'm fairly certain the timing was to do with the fiftieth anniversary of the Yom Kippur war.

5 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Unfortunately the UK Government and the right wing press cannot distinguish between being critical of the state of Israel and anti-Semitism, so I'm not confident that they have the intelligence (or desire) to see the considerable difference between being pro-Palestinan and pro-Hamas.

The press struggles with critical thinking at the best of times.

The conflation of Palestine and Hamas has to be one of the biggest things that irks me at the moment - would be like stating the IRA was acting on the behalf of Ireland between the 60s and 90s. The media not understanding the difference between Israel, its people, its government and Semitism is another; Israel does not speak for the whole of Judaism. Many in Israel are critical of their government. People should scrutinise the actions of governments and states.

[RDFH64]

13 hours ago, Clyde1998 said:

I'm fairly certain the timing was to do with the fiftieth anniversary of the Yom Kippur war.

The press struggles with critical thinking at the best of times.

The conflation of Palestine and Hamas has to be one of the biggest things that irks me at the moment - would be like stating the IRA was acting on the behalf of Ireland between the 60s and 90s. The media not understanding the difference between Israel, its people, its government and Semitism is another; Israel does not speak for the whole of Judaism. Many in Israel are critical of their government. People should scrutinise the actions of governments and states.

Great post 👏👏👏