Hertsscot Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 17 hours ago, aaid said: That part of the world was part of the Ottoman Empire for centuries up until the end of the First World War. Then the British proposed a Jewish Homeland in what was then called Mandatory Palestine - Britain at that time was administering it. Jews at that time were a small minority of the population but increased in the 1920s and 30s with immigration from Europe in the face of fascism. Post WW2, the Israelis carried out a guerrilla war against the British and essentially the British did what they’d done in Ireland in 1922 and India in 1947 and packed up and left the different factions to sort it out for themselves. The history of the Jewish people over several millennia is way too complicated for a football message board. Going back further there was a large Jewish population outside Israel going back to biblical times. Many Jews stayed in Babylon after the Exile, there was also a large Jewish population in Egypt. The Book of Acts records Jewish pilgrims travelling to Jerusalem from all over the Mediterranean world to celebrate Pentecost. A further cause for the demise of Jewish population in Israel were the revolts against Roman rule, particularly the revolt of Simon bar Kochba in 132-5, after which Jews were not allowed to live in Jerusalem itself and much Jewish land was confiscated and given to Roman veterans etc. My understanding is that some Jews did live in the land afterwards but most lived elsewhere, hence large Jewish populations in both Western and Eastern Europe, as well as their continuing presence elsewhere in the Middle East, e.g Persia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Scot Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Thanks Aaid and Ally Bongo. I like reading and watching stuff about History but have never really looked into anything pre WW2. Its seems to be a total mess and part of the problem is that the issue isnt about land mass etc, its particuar parts of land that both sides require due to religious significance. In that scenario its almost impossible to find a solution. An additional problem is that one side has all the money and power so therefore has little to gain by entering negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Scot Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) . Edited October 10, 2023 by Diamond Scot Double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 hamas have decapitated dozens of babies. There can be no justification for this. I will enjoy the retribution they will receive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanBlessed Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Malcolm said: hamas have decapitated dozens of babies. There can be no justification for this. I will enjoy the retribution they will receive. Not only that but they release videos of such atrocities almost as thought it's PR, just like ISIS. I know that terrible atrocities happen in every war but it said a lot about Hamas that they consider it something not to be covered up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 38 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said: Its seems to be a total mess and part of the problem is that the issue isnt about land mass etc, its particuar parts of land that both sides require due to religious significance. In that scenario its almost impossible to find a solution. An additional problem is that one side has all the money and power so therefore has little to gain by entering negotiations. I'm not denying that religion has played a part but it can be over emphasised. There are bits of Jerusalem that are disputed and can be a flashpoint. The Temple Mount is sacred to both Jews and Muslims and has been a source of conflict, tensions have got worse in the last year. Most modern Israelis are secular and wouldn't see the land as being gifted by God. I think they just want somewhere safe to live. Some ultra-orthodox Jews don't even recognize the Israeli state. Iirc the founders of Zionism contemplated several different territories on different continents that might have been a suitable Jewish homeland. The Palestine Liberation Organization who were very active in the 1970s and were not a religiously motivated group I think if you stick over two million people in a heavily populated small strip of land, treat them like they have been treated, then it's inevitably going to be a breeding ground for all sorts of resentment and anger. None of which is to justify the evil actions of cold blooded murderers over the weekend, which has set back the peace process even further and which will cause more pain and suffering for ordinary Israelis and Palestinians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, Malcolm said: hamas have decapitated dozens of babies. There can be no justification for this. I will enjoy the retribution they will receive. Unverified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ramy 1314 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Malcolm said: hamas have decapitated dozens of babies. There can be no justification for this. I will enjoy the retribution they will receive. I am going to be sick........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 10, 2023 Author Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Ally Bongo said: Unverified I was just about to ask if this is verified based on who posted it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 10, 2023 Author Share Posted October 10, 2023 If this is verified...........Israel will flatten the Gaza Strip and end this IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitre Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 5 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: You can't Also you can't justify the IDF and Israeli settlers "exterminating" a massively larger number of palestinians in a different way over the last 30 years + As long as Hamas exist there will never be peace and Israel doesnt want it either because they know there will be something similar to replace Hamas (see the PLO) I don't have an opinion or side with either party. There are arseholes on both sides if you ask me. It's a complete mess and has been since the Ottoman Empire collapsed. One thing for sure is that the vast majority of Palestinians won't rest until Israel is no more and there are no more Jews in the Levant. It's hardwired into them. Can't see it ever bring resolved sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitre Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 31 minutes ago, Malcolm said: hamas have decapitated dozens of babies. There can be no justification for this. I will enjoy the retribution they will receive. Israeli Economy Minister on Sky talking about this right now. Also young kids being burned alive by Hamas he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, vanderark14 said: I see the EU, with the exception of Ireland, Spain, Luxembourg and Denmark voted to cut aid to Palestine Dave Keating @DaveKeating There's a false narrative going around that the EU suspended all aid to Palestine but then that decision was reversed by Spain, Denmark, Ireland & Luxembourg. What actually happened is the commissioner from Hungary put out false information and did not consult with president Edited October 10, 2023 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 10, 2023 Author Share Posted October 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Dave Keating @DaveKeating There's a false narrative going around that the EU suspended all aid to Palestine but then that decision was reversed by Spain, Denmark, Ireland & Luxembourg. What actually happened is the commissioner from Hungary put out false information and did not consult with president https://www.ft.com/content/c9545822-0f9e-4b78-aa74-1aabb7ef8f61 Early afternoon yesterday, neighbourhood commissioner Olivér Várhelyi declared in a social media statement that: “All payments [are] immediately suspended.” That was initially confirmed by the commission’s spokesperson. But six hours later, after countries including Spain, Luxembourg and Ireland criticised the decision taken without the approval of member states, the commission backtracked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, Mitre said: Israeli Economy Minister on Sky talking about this right now. Also young kids being burned alive by Hamas he says Nothing would surprise me about Hamas but I’m not trusting unverified reports from the Israeli government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: https://www.ft.com/content/c9545822-0f9e-4b78-aa74-1aabb7ef8f61 Early afternoon yesterday, neighbourhood commissioner Olivér Várhelyi declared in a social media statement that: “All payments [are] immediately suspended.” That was initially confirmed by the commission’s spokesperson. But six hours later, after countries including Spain, Luxembourg and Ireland criticised the decision taken without the approval of member states, the commission backtracked. That is the Hungarian guy who freelanced. https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/10/10/commissioner-varhelyi-went-solo-with-suspension-of-eu-funds-for-palestinians-prompting-u-t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, vanderark14 said: I was just about to ask if this is verified based on who posted it not sur it’s verified but being publIshed by main stream media https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-palestine-hamas-attack-hostages-gaza-strip-b2426936.html and if it was my people that this was happening to, I would want the offending nation to be obliterated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Malcolm said: not sur it’s verified but being publIshed by main stream media https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-palestine-hamas-attack-hostages-gaza-strip-b2426936.html and if it was my people that this was happening to, I would want the offending nation to be obliterated. Middle East Eye @MiddleEastEye "It's a massacre that no one imagined could happen." Palestinians in Beit Hanoun were told by the Israeli army to leave their homes and head for the city centre. Hours later, the Israeli army bombed the city centre Edited October 10, 2023 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 10, 2023 Author Share Posted October 10, 2023 59 minutes ago, Malcolm said: not sur it’s verified but being publIshed by main stream media https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-palestine-hamas-attack-hostages-gaza-strip-b2426936.html and if it was my people that this was happening to, I would want the offending nation to be obliterated. That's exactly what hamas and the Palestinians have been saying for years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 19 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: That's exactly what hamas and the Palestinians have been saying for years to my knowledge israel did not commit attrocities like cutting thr heads off babies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 10, 2023 Author Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Malcolm said: to my knowledge israel did not commit attrocities like cutting thr heads off babies You can get into your own debate about who's worse. I'll leave you to it Well done on missing the point completely.........again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Just now, vanderark14 said: You can get into your own debate about who's worse. I'll leave you to it Well done on missing the point completely.........again I understand your point just dont agree with it. things wil get interesting if this spreads. Iran and Syrias reaction to what is about to unfold will determine that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 10, 2023 Author Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Malcolm said: I understand your point just dont agree with it. things wil get interesting if this spreads. Iran and Syrias reaction to what is about to unfold will determine I'm not surprised you dont agree, you're a bbc and daily mail headline reader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted October 10, 2023 Author Share Posted October 10, 2023 Wow just wow https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/10/people-supporting-hamas-in-uk-will-be-held-to-account-says-rishi-sunak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: Wow just wow https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/10/people-supporting-hamas-in-uk-will-be-held-to-account-says-rishi-sunak Suella gotta Suella... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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