Israel and palestine

[Rolling hIlls]

Not at the wind up. Can someone explain  the recent violence to me? Never really looked in to it before but I know that there are always two sides. Taken early retirement and know a lot about Scots history.  I was reading about the celtic support for Palestine but don't know why. Anybody sum it up in a couple of sentences?

[dipped flake]

26 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Not at the wind up. Can someone explain  the recent violence to me? Never really looked in to it before but I know that there are always two sides. Taken early retirement and know a lot about Scots history.  I was reading about the celtic support for Palestine but don't know why. Anybody sum it up in a couple of sentences?

Israel forcing more Palestinians out of their homes in East Jerusalem so more Israeli settlers can move into their homes. That's it really. 

[Toepoke]

29 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Not at the wind up. Can someone explain  the recent violence to me? Never really looked in to it before but I know that there are always two sides. Taken early retirement and know a lot about Scots history.  I was reading about the celtic support for Palestine but don't know why. Anybody sum it up in a couple of sentences?

Hamas = IRA, Zionists = UDA. That's about it.

 

[Rolling hIlls]

42 minutes ago, dipped flake said:

Israel forcing more Palestinians out of their homes in East Jerusalem so more Israeli settlers can move into their homes. That's it really. 

Thanks. What a fuck up. The wee innocents with rockets upon them. Never really took an interest in it tbh. And on the news this morning they are all saying america should be doing more. America gets the blame for meddling in other countries and gets the blame for not meddling in other countries. At the end of the day it is all to with religion and territory as far as I can see. Sad though all the wee kids living in terror in this day and age.

[Rolling hIlls]

45 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

Hamas = IRA, Zionists = UDA. That's about it.

 

I didn't know that. Never seen an Israeli flag at a rangers game but plenty Palestine flags at celtic games. Just wondered why.

[Duncan Blackheart]

Duck season.

Rabbit season.

[aaid]

9 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

I didn't know that. Never seen an Israeli flag at a rangers game but plenty Palestine flags at celtic games. Just wondered why.

You're obviously not looking hard enough.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/06/gy8yha2u.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?287873-THE-Rangers-2-vs-1-Hibs%26p%3D4117186%26viewfull%3D1%26styleid%3D22&tbnid=5NHfVapZd77nYM&vet=1&docid=ibFNQ0V7Oeq5YM&w=816&h=459&source=sh/x/im

[Rolling hIlls]

1 minute ago, aaid said:

You're obviously not looking hard enough.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/06/gy8yha2u.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?287873-THE-Rangers-2-vs-1-Hibs%26p%3D4117186%26viewfull%3D1%26styleid%3D22&tbnid=5NHfVapZd77nYM&vet=1&docid=ibFNQ0V7Oeq5YM&w=816&h=459&source=sh/x/im

But I haven't. Just wondered why. My guess is that if celtic take one side then rangers (fans) will take another. What a world we live in. It was just I was reading on the BBC Scotland news that celtic allowed fans in and the fans went back on their word to put flags down in honour of Scott browns last game. Instead they covered it with Palestine flags. Celtic were furious and removed them right away. I just don't get it. I am interested in my own country.  Is that so wrong? Let them sort it out. We had to and come independence we will trade and be good to every country that deals fairly with us.

[ParisInAKilt]

Anytime someone starts a thread saying “not at the wind up” means they probably are 😂

[Rolling hIlls]

17 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Anytime someone starts a thread saying “not at the wind up” means they probably are 😂

Nah. Just never looked in to it mate. Normally I am at the wind up though!!!! Just hate to hear about the wee terrified kids and wondered what is all about. Read schindlers list 20 years ago but never really looked in to the Palestine situation. I remember that Paul Gascoigne wanted to be buried there when he died wearing number 6. In the gaza strip. But seriously this world now is a dangerous place.

[Jim Beem]

2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Anytime someone starts a thread saying “not at the wind up” means they probably are 😂

Certainly is in this case. Took him 2 posts to throw in Celtic and Rangers. Horrible Fucking rat of a man

[ParisInAKilt]

11 minutes ago, Jim Beem said:

Certainly is in this case. Took him 2 posts to throw in Celtic and Rangers. Horrible Fucking rat of a man

Aye can’t even troll with any decency 

[ThistleWhistle]

I remember reading a series of historical novels about a German detective during the Nazi period and one touched on Palestine.  Up until then hadn't realised that one of their plans was to ship Jews there, charging the individual and Zionist movement over there for the privilege, with the intention they'd kick off with the Palestinians tying the British down whilst they cracked on planning for European conquest.  Arabs kicked off and there was a revolt from 36-39 over land ownership and unlimited immigration into their territory resulting in the 1939 White Paper which, amongst other things, limited immigration to 15,000 a year.     

Can't remember them mentioning this stage of events in history at school:

The Holocaust and immigration quotas

In 1939, as a consequence of the White Paper of 1939, the British reduced the number of immigrants allowed into Palestine. World War II and the Holocaust started shortly thereafter and once the 15,000 annual quota was exceeded, Jews fleeing Nazi persecution were interned in detention camps or deported to places such as Mauritius.^[51]

Starting in 1939, a clandestine immigration effort called Aliya Bet was spearheaded by an organisation called Mossad LeAliyah Bet. Tens of thousands of European Jews escaped the Nazis in boats and small ships headed for Palestine. The Royal Navy intercepted many of the vessels; others were unseaworthy and were wrecked; a Haganah bomb sunk the SS Patria, killing 267 people; two other ships were sunk by Soviet submarines: the motor schooner Struma was torpedoed and sunk in the Black Sea by a Soviet submarine in February 1942 with the loss of nearly 800 lives.^[52] The last refugee boats to try to reach Palestine during the war were the Bulbul, Mefküre and Morina in August 1944. A Soviet submarine sank the motor schooner Mefküre by torpedo and shellfire and machine-gunned survivors in the water,^[53] killing between 300 and 400 refugees.^[54] Illegal immigration resumed after World War II.

After the war 250,000 Jewish refugees were stranded in displaced persons (DP) camps in Europe. Despite the pressure of world opinion, in particular the repeated requests of US President Harry S. Truman and the recommendations of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry that 100,000 Jews be immediately granted entry to Palestine, the British maintained the ban on immigration.

 

[Rolling hIlls]

3 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

I remember reading a series of historical novels about a German detective during the Nazi period and one touched on Palestine.  Up until then hadn't realised that one of their plans was to ship Jews there, charging the individual and Zionist movement over there for the privilege, with the intention they'd kick off with the Palestinians tying the British down whilst they cracked on planning for European conquest.  Arabs kicked off and there was a revolt from 36-39 over land ownership and unlimited immigration into their territory resulting in the 1939 White Paper which, amongst other things, limited immigration to 15,000 a year.     

Can't remember them mentioning this stage of events in history at school:

The Holocaust and immigration quotas

In 1939, as a consequence of the White Paper of 1939, the British reduced the number of immigrants allowed into Palestine. World War II and the Holocaust started shortly thereafter and once the 15,000 annual quota was exceeded, Jews fleeing Nazi persecution were interned in detention camps or deported to places such as Mauritius.^[51]

Starting in 1939, a clandestine immigration effort called Aliya Bet was spearheaded by an organisation called Mossad LeAliyah Bet. Tens of thousands of European Jews escaped the Nazis in boats and small ships headed for Palestine. The Royal Navy intercepted many of the vessels; others were unseaworthy and were wrecked; a Haganah bomb sunk the SS Patria, killing 267 people; two other ships were sunk by Soviet submarines: the motor schooner Struma was torpedoed and sunk in the Black Sea by a Soviet submarine in February 1942 with the loss of nearly 800 lives.^[52] The last refugee boats to try to reach Palestine during the war were the Bulbul, Mefküre and Morina in August 1944. A Soviet submarine sank the motor schooner Mefküre by torpedo and shellfire and machine-gunned survivors in the water,^[53] killing between 300 and 400 refugees.^[54] Illegal immigration resumed after World War II.

After the war 250,000 Jewish refugees were stranded in displaced persons (DP) camps in Europe. Despite the pressure of world opinion, in particular the repeated requests of US President Harry S. Truman and the recommendations of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry that 100,000 Jews be immediately granted entry to Palestine, the British maintained the ban on immigration.

 

Thanks for that. Need to get a book on it. Intrigued now. My friend won an smp seat last week and looking to get more in to politics at this stage. My only view at the moment is that there are two sides in any conflict. As for the two members before calling me a rat etc then that speaks for itself. I merely asked the question about celtic fans as it was in the news this morning and celtix were let down by them. It seems that you are not allowed to ask a question on here now or the green brigade will be all over you. I am just as critical of rangers fans as well. Point is , I mentioned it as it happened yesterday at celtic Park and I know nothing about this particular conflict. Thanks for being reasonable and not personally insulting. Some folk can't help it I suppose.

[Rolling hIlls]

1 hour ago, Jim Beem said:

Certainly is in this case. Took him 2 posts to throw in Celtic and Rangers. Horrible Fucking rat of a man

Get over rangers being champions kid. As for being a horrible rat of a man. I am heading north over the next six weeks to visit my old ta friends, some who I helped to start their own ta clubs. Before u start to call people names maybe you should think about who you are calling a rat of a man. 

[Big Ramy 1314]

All I can say is WOW.. A self proclaimed educated man posting this and then once again bringing Celtic into it.. WOW. And I get banned.!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Grim Jim]

Can I bring Britain into it?

Took Palestine from the Ottoman Turks in WW1.   Reneged on promises to the Arabs and, with the French, carved up the Middle East with Palestine coming under a British Mandate.

Britain managed to piss off both sides, with Arabs revolting in 1936 and Jews in 1944, before leaving the place in 1948 mid-civil war now known either as the Israeli War of Independence, or the Nakba.

The latter means catastrophe since (Wiki)...

Quote

The war culminated in the establishment of the State of Israel by the Jews, and saw a complete demographic transformation of the territory the Jews occupied, with the displacement of around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs and the destruction of most of their urban areas. Many Palestinian Arabs ended up stateless, displaced either to the Palestinian territories captured by Egypt and Jordan or to the surrounding Arab states; many of them, as well as their descendants, remain stateless and in refugee camps.

 

[aaid]

2 hours ago, ThistleWhistle said:

I remember reading a series of historical novels about a German detective during the Nazi period and one touched on Palestine. 

 

 

The Bernie Gunter novels by Philip Kerr?   While they're excellent and entertaining reads, I wouldn't take them as being entirely historically accurate.  There's more than a bit of artistic licence.

[Rolling hIlls]

2 hours ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

All I can say is WOW.. A self proclaimed educated man posting this and then once again bringing Celtic into it.. WOW. And I get banned.!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Just quoting facts of today in news about celtic supporters. You can't get banned for asking a question ramy. I know nothing about Palestine etc and wondered why. I have had a few decent answers on here now and will buy a book on it. Why are u so paranoid when anyone mentions celtic  I never even mentioned them in bad way  loony tune.

[jcs]

I don't know the answer but I presumed it was more a case of Israel being backed by the big boys i.e the USA and Great Britain versus the palastinians who don't have the same back up or money,  with the Israelis taking palastinian land, both sides think the bit of land belongs to them as it says so in they're respective  scriptures, with celtic fans taking the palastinian side feeling that  they are backing the underdog from having their land stolen from them, which they relate to Great Britain and Ireland

Edited May 13, 2021 by jcs

[Toepoke]

3 hours ago, Grim Jim said:

Can I bring Britain into it?

Took Palestine from the Ottoman Turks in WW1.   Reneged on promises to the Arabs and, with the French, carved up the Middle East with Palestine coming under a British Mandate.

Britain managed to piss off both sides, with Arabs revolting in 1936 and Jews in 1944, before leaving the place in 1948 mid-civil war now known either as the Israeli War of Independence, or the Nakba.

The latter means catastrophe since (Wiki)...

 

Bit of fitba trivia, Palestine were the first British team to enter the World Cup (in 1934).

 

[Grim Jim]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

Bit of fitba trivia, Palestine were the first British team to enter the World Cup (in 1934).

 

Cap doffed sir 😄

[ThistleWhistle]

22 hours ago, aaid said:

The Bernie Gunter novels by Philip Kerr?   While they're excellent and entertaining reads, I wouldn't take them as being entirely historically accurate.  There's more than a bit of artistic licence.

Realise that it is a work of fiction anchored in real events like - didn't take the wee lass to the petting farm and bemoan the lack of communist critique.  

Could that criticism not be levied at all historical writing, even non-fiction, given it is usually written by the victor?

It is that series cheers though and read it over the best part of a decade so forgot which is which but the events it mentioned in each were usually a catalyst to read more into it.  Read the Greek one last from memory and what happened there in the 50's I'd never even been aware of.  Found the couple set in the build up to the Olympics fascinating along with previously I hadn't been aware that Berlin was one of the last places where the Nazi's won the seat - I'd just taken it for granted the whole country at the time was staunch.    

 

[slasher]

On 5/13/2021 at 8:23 AM, Toepoke said:

Hamas = IRA, Zionists = UDA. That's about it.

 

Aye that's it right enough 🙄

[Rolling hIlls]

Good debate. Have been watching the news on it a bit more. As usual it is the innocents that suffer. Speaking to my pal yesterday.  America are damned if they do something and dammed if they don't. What a world.