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British journalists have become part of Johnson’s fake news machine

"It’s chilling. From the Mail, The Times to the BBC and ITN, everyone is peddling Downing Street’s lies and smears. They’re turning their readers into dupes."

Hard hitting article by Peter Oborne. It implies not that journalists are (for example) pro or anti Brexit but too easily swallow Govt line and pass on their spin/framing, to maintain access. Shows failure to call politicians to account, also shows how informality of media like Twitter can get Govt messages out without scrutiny or taking responsibility. This goes beyond politics.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, exile said:

It's one thing for the Tories to doctor a clip to make Labour look bad, but here is BBC's very own Andrew Neil implicated in a fake news episode. 

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18026517.andrew-neil-fire-reposting-doctored-video-ian-blackford/

 

To be fair to Andrew Neil when it became clear that the video had been doctored he retracted that,. He didn't just quietly delete the original rewtweet but pointed out that it had been doctored.   Also Nick Robinson has called it out but that's a bit of pot kettle black.

Blackford didn't handle the interview at all well which makes you wonder why the Tories edited it at all.    I know that it's not his brief or even his jurisdiction but as Westminster Party leader, not only should he be expecting these sort of questions, he should be capable of dealing with them. 

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1 hour ago, aaid said:

To be fair to Andrew Neil when it became clear that the video had been doctored he retracted that,. He didn't just quietly delete the original rewtweet but pointed out that it had been doctored.   Also Nick Robinson has called it out but that's a bit of pot kettle black.

Blackford didn't handle the interview at all well which makes you wonder why the Tories edited it at all.    I know that it's not his brief or even his jurisdiction but as Westminster Party leader, not only should he be expecting these sort of questions, he should be capable of dealing with them. 

Nevertheless the scale of fakery and mainstream media collusion in it is such that I think it's worth calling it out when it happens.

If no one else had called out the fakery, I wonder if Neil would have ever checked the video to ensure he wasn't perpetuating partisan propaganda; his thousands of followers would be lapping it up indefinitely.  

Andrew Neil is a clever guy and knows well what he is doing. He is always careful never to slip up by openly stating any view that could be construed as a personal opinion or bias. So he stays just on the right side of getting caught. The fact he did retract it and said so is welcome but fits perfectly with his impression of impartiality, but I wonder how many more times he gets away with it when no-one calls it out.  

 

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1 minute ago, exile said:

Nevertheless the scale of fakery and mainstream media collusion in it is such that I think it's worth calling it out when it happens.

If no one else had called out the fakery, I wonder if Neil would have ever checked the video to ensure he wasn't perpetuating partisan propaganda; his thousands of followers would be lapping it up indefinitely.  

Andrew Neil is a clever guy and knows well what he is doing. He is always careful never to slip up by openly stating any view that could be construed as a personal opinion or bias. So he stays just on the right side of getting caught. The fact he did retract it and said so is welcome but fits perfectly with his impression of impartiality, but I wonder how many more times he gets away with it when no-one calls it out.  

 

I think you are seeing things that aren't there and are what you want them to be rather than how they actually are.

I'm under no illusions as to Andrew Neil's allegiances, however, I would say that when he's interviewing politicians he treats them with the same contempt regardless on party.

Twitter is an instant medium.  People don't take time to check out the bona fides of every tweet - if they think its worthy of a retweet, either because they agree with it, disagree with it or just think its something others will be interested in, they just hit retweet.   Given the original source - BBC News - its likely that Neil did that, particularly if he hadn't seen the original interview.   You seem to be suggesting that he knew it was faked when he retweeted it, I don't see any evidence for that.

I think that by editing interviews to make them look worse than they are may well backfire on the Tories.  Particularly in this case - which is a bit of a car crash for Blackford - as it just gives a get out that the its been faked.

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1 minute ago, aaid said:

I think you are seeing things that aren't there and are what you want them to be rather than how they actually are.

I'm under no illusions as to Andrew Neil's allegiances, however, I would say that when he's interviewing politicians he treats them with the same contempt regardless on party.

Twitter is an instant medium.  People don't take time to check out the bona fides of every tweet - if they think its worthy of a retweet, either because they agree with it, disagree with it or just think its something others will be interested in, they just hit retweet.   Given the original source - BBC News - its likely that Neil did that, particularly if he hadn't seen the original interview.   You seem to be suggesting that he knew it was faked when he retweeted it, I don't see any evidence for that.

I think that by editing interviews to make them look worse than they are may well backfire on the Tories.  Particularly in this case - which is a bit of a car crash for Blackford - as it just gives a get out that the its been faked.

Eh, it's not what I want to see, it's what I saw, I just posted an actual faked video in a thread on fake news. 

"when he's interviewing politicians he treats them with the same contempt regardless on party." - I agree, and the other day I posted a clip of him dismantling a Tory MP, and yes he does it to all parties, and he makes his reputation for fearless interrogation that way, but this accords him an authority and integrity that he exploits offscreen to promote his personal interests and agendas - which may also be fine, of itself, but it means people think he is a trustworthy source of things in general.

Yes Twitter is an instant medium but I would say that people 'in public life' like MPs and senior broadcasters such as Neil should think twice and check before retweeting dodgily doctored propaganda, - in effect checking his sources - as a good journalist should do.

He is forever plugging / retweeting his own brands - Spectator and so on - which again is fine but you'd think it doesn't do his personal brand any good to be retweeting from an 'addicted2newz' account whose profile image reads "SHARE IF YOU'RE BACKING BORIS"

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There's hundreds of fake news things over the years that the news services all presented as real even though they were known to be fake. They say they're places they are not. they have guests on but don't list the conflicts of interest etc.

 

Andrew Neil is as partisan as anyone and as such will ignore any red flags for things that agree with his world view and rush to publish it.

Paul Foot once said " Andrew Neil, the sworn enemy of investigative journalism"

He's all about preservation of the Status Quo you'll see them about even on here.

 

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Even the term fake news is a load of shite. Probably don’t even know the half of what’s it true and lies or propaganda now a days. 

The part in this book about East Timor especially really changed now I look at politics etc 

 

37603359-A8CC-4E57-A7D5-6728A5125E78.jpeg

  • Haha 1

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14 hours ago, exile said:

#wreathgate (not fake news if you believe the error was accidental)

BBC says use of old footage to 'cover' PM's wreath blunder was production mistake

BBC apologises for using wrong Remembrance Sunday clip

(The graceless apology manages to have a dig at Corbyn for not bowing enough!)

That to me is a lot more worrying than Andrew Neil retweeting some doctored footage 

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I think it's about time the opposition parties started taking the BBC to court to highlight these issues. This latest Boris cockup might seem fairly trivial but it's the attempted BBC cover up that should be the main story. If you add this to the biased TV dabate thing, and the Ian Austin story, then it's nothing short of blatant gerrymandering.

Maybe the SNP should take something like this to court. Spend a few grand getting the case to court. Get some publicity out of it then drop the case saying it's going to be too expensive. "We had to drop the case because the cost of democracy in this broken Union is too expensive."

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6 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I think it's about time the opposition parties started taking the BBC to court to highlight these issues. This latest Boris cockup might seem fairly trivial but it's the attempted BBC cover up that should be the main story. If you add this to the biased TV dabate thing, and the Ian Austin story, then it's nothing short of blatant gerrymandering.

Maybe the SNP should take something like this to court. Spend a few grand getting the case to court. Get some publicity out of it then drop the case saying it's going to be too expensive. "We had to drop the case because the cost of democracy in this broken Union is too expensive."

Any political party taking the BBC to court over it's reporting would be open to accusations that they were trying to shut down scrutiny  and that would probably be right.   It might be red meat for the base but it wouldn't be anything more than that and would likely backfire  which is why they don't do it.   It's also why you rarely, if ever, see serving politicians suing for defamation or libel. 

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20 hours ago, Orraloon said:

I think it's about time the opposition parties started taking the BBC to court to highlight these issues. This latest Boris cockup might seem fairly trivial but it's the attempted BBC cover up that should be the main story. If you add this to the biased TV dabate thing, and the Ian Austin story, then it's nothing short of blatant gerrymandering.

Maybe the SNP should take something like this to court. Spend a few grand getting the case to court. Get some publicity out of it then drop the case saying it's going to be too expensive. "We had to drop the case because the cost of democracy in this broken Union is too expensive."

But who would report it? Bottom of page 27 in the papers and ignored by the broadcast media.

Far better they take the BBC/STV to task next time one of their reps is in front of a live mic, no matter what they're being asked about. Politicians evade questions all the time and just trot out the party line or complain about what the other side said they'd do or wouldn't do so it shouldn't be hard.

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Labour having to deal with DDOS attacks as well, Corbyn even said some rather bland things that may amount to him thinking it was suspicious.

Our politics have gotten overtly more dirty it would seem.

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Also two of my mates who are in europe are trying to get their postal votes sorted and they're both hit snags to do with their unique identifiers not matching anymore. They have previously voted by post.

 

2 points of data is hardly indicative of anything but if it's being replicated...

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9 hours ago, daviebee said:

But who would report it? Bottom of page 27 in the papers and ignored by the broadcast media.

Far better they take the BBC/STV to task next time one of their reps is in front of a live mic, no matter what they're being asked about. Politicians evade questions all the time and just trot out the party line or complain about what the other side said they'd do or wouldn't do so it shouldn't be hard.

ITV have just reported it on national and local news. SNP taking ITV to court. 

There is a fund raiser if you fancy donating. ;)

 

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On 11/13/2019 at 7:34 PM, Orraloon said:

ITV have just reported it on national and local news. SNP taking ITV to court. 

There is a fund raiser if you fancy donating. ;)

 

Chris Law, Joanna Cherry, Fingers Salmond and now Nicola Sturgeon all with the begging bowls out for crowd funders. 
 

The SNP have no shame, followed by a bigger flock of lickspittles not to be found.

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34 minutes ago, Fearghal O’Flaherty said:

Stay classy

 

29 minutes ago, Fearghal O’Flaherty said:

Chris Law, Joanna Cherry, Fingers Salmond and now Nicola Sturgeon all with the begging bowls out for crowd funders. 
 

The SNP have no shame, followed by a bigger flock of lickspittles not to be found.

🤔

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3 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

 

🤔

That's explained because the writer isn't using a coherent holistic argument but merely applyling rhetorical tricks individually to each statement.

Then when viewed as a whole the contradictions and hypocrisy come to the fore.

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On 11/12/2019 at 9:16 AM, Squirrelhumper said:

I hate that cow Laura Kuenssberg.

Nasty, nasty piece of work.

 

5 hours ago, Fearghal O’Flaherty said:

Chris Law, Joanna Cherry, Fingers Salmond and now Nicola Sturgeon all with the begging bowls out for crowd funders. 
 

The SNP have no shame, followed by a bigger flock of lickspittles not to be found.

 

4 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

 

🤔

Easy, calling a woman a cow is classless, giving an opinion on crowdfunding and SNP supporters is, well, an opinion.

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