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There is no dark side of the moon

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5 hours ago, Huddersfield said:

At different times in my life, I've chosen religion, politics, psychology, philosophy & various combinations of them & other things to give me a framework to understand the world. I am 100% convinced though that the world is spheroid & that the Moon landings happened, probably 95% certain that 9/11 was what it seems to be, maybe 80% that JFK was what it seemed to be but not convinced at all by the official Diana story. So I see what you are saying, & as I said I think one thing you achieve very well is stopping me from going down a 'raising the eyebrows' & saying something is crap without at least understanding my own position.

Got a lot of respect for your posts Huddersfield but you are wrong about those two, badly. But that for sure does not mean the world is flat.

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For me there is more evidence that 9/11 never happened as explained than there was Lance Armstrong cheated. Which were the two "conspiracy theories" I advanced on here for years. Scotty having turned me on to 9/11.

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There is more evidence that RFK was murdered by others than any of the other theories as well. So if RFK was murdered by the intelligence state , JFK shot in Dallas and Ted miraculously surviving a plane crash then being put aside with the death of that girl in the car.

RFK is so obvious a cover up.

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1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Got a lot of respect for your posts Huddersfield but you are wrong about those two, badly. But that for sure does not mean the world is flat.

I think the thing with me is that for most things in life I tend to start from a sceptical perspective. That's not to say I aren't open to possibilities, but I always need a fair bit of convincing...it's just my version of critical thinking really. So, 9/11, I've not really seen any alternative theory that trumps what I know about extremist Islamic ideology & geopolitics...I've had access to odd bits & bobs of information over the years & been in multi-agency meetings looking at strategies around domestic terrorism, & whilst that's a long way from 9/11, I have a perspective & evidence that makes the broad story credible to me. I am open-minded though, I just haven't been convinced yet.

JFK - I put a lower score for that one because there are questions I can see around it, plus I've not really ever got very engaged in reading up on alternate theories. I've watched the odd TV programme over the years but never ended up with a strong view one way or the other.

Where I diverge significantly from Scotty is the conflation of them all. I have read a lot, for example, on Kincora, Colin Wallace & Operation Clockwork Orange, so I know conspiracies & cover-ups happen, & politically (rather than Biblically) I think these clearly trace back to wealth, power & how it is exercised in the real world. So, yes I could be persuaded about 9/11 or JFK...I just haven't been yet.

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You wont see alternative theories just sitting passively hoping to stumble across something. You look at the primary documents and notice contradictions in testimony.

For example

Norm Mineta the transport minister contradicting Dick Cheney's testimony. regarding to the shoot down orders.

 

However there is literally a packed 5 hours of video needed to systematically take down the official story, so fuck doing that by typing it out on a message board.

 

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1 hour ago, phart said:

You wont see alternative theories just sitting passively hoping to stumble across something. You look at the primary documents and notice contradictions in testimony.

For example

Norm Mineta the transport minister contradicting Dick Cheney's testimony. regarding to the shoot down orders.

 

However there is literally a packed 5 hours of video needed to systematically take down the official story, so fuck doing that by typing it out on a message board.

 

Yes, I think I know that...but being blunt when I have about 50 hours a week to put in at work, topped up with lord knows how many at home, a grandson to dote on & a dysfunctional football team to support, 5 hours of YouTube is a luxury I can’t really afford. Would they convince me? Maybe, maybe not. I have all sorts of things on my ‘to do’ reading list to be honest, but I spend such reading time as I have on the things that most grab my attention which aren’t really conspiracies generally speaking. 

I stay out of 9/11 & similar debates in truth because although I know what I think & believe, I also know I haven’t put in hours of research. That’s why I said 90 & not 100%. 

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6 minutes ago, Huddersfield said:

Yes, I think I know that...but being blunt when I have about 50 hours a week to put in at work, topped up with lord knows how many at home, a grandson to dote on & a dysfunctional football team to support, 5 hours of YouTube is a luxury I can’t really afford. Would they convince me? Maybe, maybe not. I have all sorts of things on my ‘to do’ reading list to be honest, but I spend such reading time as I have on the things that most grab my attention which aren’t really conspiracies generally speaking. 

I stay out of 9/11 & similar debates in truth because although I know what I think & believe, I also know I haven’t put in hours of research. That’s why I said 90 & not 100%. 

Yeah i was just pointing out unless you go looking for it, you won't find it. Trust me i'd much rather have the interesting life where i never bothered finding out out all this stuff, cause it does you no good. In another life i'd have ignored it all.

ps you said 95% and never look into the RFK assassination that is the one that opened up a lot of this shit for me. Obvious cover-up then that pries open the door to everything else.

You have enough on your plate with Huddersfield :P

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4 hours ago, Chripper said:

OK. Can you give me the names of these alleged 40 different people?

I mean, surely if they documented the word of God as well as the creation of every single matter there must be documentation of the names of these people?

You can't be serious.

4 hours ago, Chripper said:

And what if God, in his infinite wisdom, decided that he left something out...

So God, in His infinite wisdom, forgot something?

4 hours ago, Chripper said:

...or he wanted to make another declaration of his presence?

Being God, He would have just used prophesy in the first instance.

4 hours ago, Chripper said:

So, what you're saying is that you would believe God to be a liar if I wrote the words that he spoke to me?

No, you would either be mistaken, deceived, delusional, or a liar.

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12 minutes ago, phart said:

Yeah i was just pointing out unless you go looking for it, you won't find it. Trust me i'd much rather have the interesting life where i never bothered finding out out all this stuff, cause it does you no good. In another life i'd have ignored it all.

ps you said 95% and never look into the RFK assassination that is the one that opened up a lot of this shit for me. Obvious cover-up then that pries open the door to everything else.

You have enough on your plate with Huddersfield :P

Amen to that, brother! Our season was summed up yesterday when we were given a penalty & then the ref changed his mind. Could only happen to us. Now if you want a conspiracy theory...

You're right that I've not looked much, if at all into RFK; a little more but not extensively into JFK. As I said, I think my natural philosophical leaning is towards scepticism, so I tend to automatically want to debunk conspiracies but force myself (hence my original comments about Scotty) to make a space in my head for alternate possibilities. I just need my pension fund to get its arse in gear, then I might find some time. Or spend it all on HTFC.

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3 minutes ago, Huddersfield said:

As I said, I think my natural philosophical leaning is towards scepticism, so I tend to automatically want to debunk conspiracies the truth...

Wouldn't a natural scepticism lead to questioning the official version (the lie) in the first place?

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20 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

You can't be serious.

I'm 100% serious. Does anyone know the names of these writers?

20 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

So God, in His infinite wisdom, forgot something?

That's why God created erasers on pencils.

 

20 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

No, you would either be mistaken, deceived, delusional, or a liar.

So, I would be aforementioned and yet the nameless authors of the Bible are to be believed?

Are you saying that there isn't a 0.00001% chance that the Bible writers weren't mistaken, deceived, deletional or liars?

Edited by Chripper

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3 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

Wouldn't a natural scepticism lead to questioning the official version (the lie) in the first place?

Yes, of course. If I was totally sold on every official line I’d probably be putting all my efforts at the moment into arguing about where the ball should be for a corner 🙂

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1 minute ago, Chripper said:

I'm 100% serious. Does anyone know the names of these writers?

Well, you definitely wouldn't be my 'phone-a-friend'.

(In fact, you wouldn't even be allowed on my team for a casual trivia pub night.)

For starters, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the gospels were named after the people that wrote them.

(Do you know any of the books of the Bible?)

6 minutes ago, Chripper said:

That's why God created erasers on pencils.

He didn't create those things.

6 minutes ago, Chripper said:

So, I would be aforementioned and yet the nameless authors of the Bible are to be believed?

Correct.

7 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Are you saying that there isn't a 0.00001% chance that the Bible writers weren't mistaken, deceived, deletional or liars?

Correct, because ultimately it was God (the Holy Spirit) that wrote the Bible through these 40 people.

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," 2 Timothy 3:16

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1 minute ago, Scotty CTA said:

For starters, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the gospels were named after the people that wrote them.

(Do you know any of the books of the Bible?)

And these are reputable sources?

(Matthew, Luke, John.. Curley, Larry and Moe?)

2 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

He didn't create those things.

Sure he did. He created us, right? And we created pencils with erasers, therefore, he created them.

3 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

Correct, because ultimately it was God (the Holy Spirit) that wrote the Bible through these 40 people.

And you think this because those 40 people told you so.

These "40 people" could've been liars and scoundrels or they could've been people who suffered from syphilis or some other disease that affects the workings of the mind.

You have no evidence that God exists, you have no evidence that Jesus was the son of God. If you have, please produce is. If you're going to recite from the Bible then I could recite from Harry Potter and tell you how he saved the world from Voldermort.

Which is more believable? I'd say the latter.

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21 hours ago, Chripper said:

what I want to know is why do people engage with him?

How about you (just curious)? 😉

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1 minute ago, exile said:

How about you (just curious)? 😉

If I begin spouting nonsense about a conveniently absent creator, people can ignore me with my blessing. :P

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18 minutes ago, Chripper said:

And these are reputable sources?

(Matthew, Mark, Luke, John..

Yes, they were eye witnesses.

You can take their word as Gospel.

18 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Sure he did. He created us, right? And we created pencils with erasers, therefore, he created them.

God created the matter, and we altered and shaped the matter.

18 minutes ago, Chripper said:

And you think this because those 40 people told you so.

Yes, I acknowledge God's Word.

23 minutes ago, Chripper said:

These "40 people" could've been liars and scoundrels...

They were definitely sinners.

24 minutes ago, Chripper said:

...or they could've been people who suffered from syphilis or some other disease that affects the workings of the mind.

If that (impossibly) happened it would have been like winning every lottery jackpot you are alive for.

26 minutes ago, Chripper said:

You have no evidence that God exists, you have no evidence that Jesus was the son of God.

I actually have tons of evidence, but what I don't have is the type of proof that you are asking for.

(The table hasn't' been set that way.)

As stated previously... We are saved (from judgement of our sins) by faith (and thankfully not by proof).

31 minutes ago, Chripper said:

 If you're going to recite from the Bible then I could recite from Harry Potter and tell you how he saved the world from Voldermort.

One,  we hear the words by which we gain faith. 

"So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ." Romans 10:17

The other, is a vehicle to plant the seeds of future acceptance of the antichrist in the minds of the youth.

It has no eternal value.

41 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Which is more believable? I'd say the latter.

And you'd be wrong (and you will be proven wrong).

"Seek the Lord while he may be found." Isaiah 55:6

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34 minutes ago, Chripper said:

If I begin spouting nonsense about a conveniently absent creator, people can ignore me with my blessing. :P

'exile' is asking why you don't ignore me.

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2 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

Yes, they were eye witnesses.

You can take their word as Gospel.

What, you mean like there's eye witnesses at Penn and Teller and David Blaine, etc?

4 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

They were definitely sinners.

So, you'd believe sinners?

5 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

I actually have tons of evidence, but what I don't have is the type of proof that you are asking for.

Yes, yes, the sky and the trees and the everything is "evidence". Can you show me actual proof that there is a God?

I'm sorry, but a few books about incest and murder written by sinners isn't exactly going to convince me. On the contrary, I actually believe it less now.

8 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

And you'd be wrong (and you will be proven wrong).

So, i'd be proven wrong? 

How so? How can you prove me wrong?

Dude, you are saying, without doubt, that God created everything and Jesus is his son. I'm asking for proof.

You're not delivering any.

Can you or can you not provide proof on the above? If you can't provide any then there is room for doubt in your mind.

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16 hours ago, Huddersfield said:

...I don't think it does any harm to engage at all...

OK... Ever see magicians on TV and think to yourself "I know it's a trick, but I have no idea how he did that?"

Ever had how a magic trick was done revealed to you?

So... If they faked the moon landings, how would they go about it?

2dqj6m1.jpg

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1 hour ago, Chripper said:

Oh. Why don't I ignore him?

Usually I do, but it's a moment of weakness. :P

God's Word never returns void.

(You get to learn without realising it.)

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