The Cringe In Reverse

[Hessen]

Here are the words of a very wise man:

'Nationalism is a cheap instinct and a dangerous tool. Take away from any country what it owes to other countries; and then be proud of of it if you can.

In a poor country, patriotism is to believe that one's country would be the best if it were rich and powerful. In a rich one patriotism is to believe one's country is the best because it is rich and powerful. So patriotism becomes the desire to get what others have or to keep others from getting what one has. In short, it is an aspect of conservatism; of animal envy and animal selfishness.'

Obviously not that wise cos it you have to read it twice. Anyway, sounds like a criticism of British nationalism rather than Scottish

[Parklife]

It might make people feel better, and help you understand NO voters, if you defined yourself by something other than your nationality. Slip the metaphorical saltire from your shoulders, at least for a while, and just be yourself.

Here are the words of a very wise man:

'Nationalism is a cheap instinct and a dangerous tool. Take away from any country what it owes to other countries; and then be proud of of it if you can.

In a poor country, patriotism is to believe that one's country would be the best if it were rich and powerful. In a rich one patriotism is to believe one's country is the best because it is rich and powerful. So patriotism becomes the desire to get what others have or to keep others from getting what one has. In short, it is an aspect of conservatism; of animal envy and animal selfishness.'

I didn't vote Yes through patriotism. I voted Yes due to inequality.

[phart]

Do we get cheap and rich instincts? If nationalism is a cheap instinct what is an opposite instinct.

[ULSTERSCOTAS]

Boob jobs, rising damp, feral goats, sugared almonds, the Hadj, circus geeks . . . l'm sure they all contributed in some way to the referendum result.

If we could only understand how then maybe we would get a YES next time!

[Hessen]

Boob jobs, rising damp, feral goats, sugared almonds, the Hadj, circus geeks . . . l'm sure they all contributed in some way to the referendum result.

If we could only understand how then maybe we would get a YES next time!

Another boring post from another boring unionist

[mariokempes56]

It might make people feel better, and help you understand NO voters, if you defined yourself by something other than your nationality. Slip the metaphorical saltire from your shoulders, at least for a while, and just be yourself.

Here are the words of a very wise man:

'Nationalism is a cheap instinct and a dangerous tool. Take away from any country what it owes to other countries; and then be proud of of it if you can.

In a poor country, patriotism is to believe that one's country would be the best if it were rich and powerful. In a rich one patriotism is to believe one's country is the best because it is rich and powerful. So patriotism becomes the desire to get what others have or to keep others from getting what one has. In short, it is an aspect of conservatism; of animal envy and animal selfishness.'

Maybe wise but didnae half talk some shite.

[Ally Bongo]

Boob jobs, rising damp, feral goats, sugared almonds, the Hadj, circus geeks . . . l'm sure they all contributed in some way to the referendum result.

If we could only understand how then maybe we would get a YES next time!

Nope - all yes needs next time is a swing of approx 190,000 votes from 4 million - less than 5%

It's not hard to believe that more than 5% bought into the new powers swindle and that a "No vote was not a vote for the status quo" promise

Another war and Osborne's austerity announcements today will go a long way to changing opinion on that not to mention loads of other stuff

[ShedTA]

Boob jobs, rising damp, feral goats, sugared almonds, the Hadj, circus geeks . . . l'm sure they all contributed in some way to the referendum result.

If we could only understand how then maybe we would get a YES next time!

predictable sort of post from a poster who generally comes across as if he would struggle to undertsand anything. Therefore derides other people showing a modicum of intelligent thought.

[Hessen]

predictable sort of post from a poster who generally comes across as if he would struggle to undertsand anything. Therefore derides other people showing a modicum of intelligent thought.

From my experience of Unionist Ulster Scots from having lived in Belfast, they struggle to understand how they choose the correct sock for the correct foot every morning

[ParisInAKilt]

It might make people feel better, and help you understand NO voters, if you defined yourself by something other than your nationality. Slip the metaphorical saltire from your shoulders, at least for a while, and just be yourself.

Here are the words of a very wise man:

'Nationalism is a cheap instinct and a dangerous tool. Take away from any country what it owes to other countries; and then be proud of of it if you can.

In a poor country, patriotism is to believe that one's country would be the best if it were rich and powerful. In a rich one patriotism is to believe one's country is the best because it is rich and powerful. So patriotism becomes the desire to get what others have or to keep others from getting what one has. In short, it is an aspect of conservatism; of animal envy and animal selfishness.'

The only people who talk about nationalism are no voters. And the only people I know who voted because of a flag or identity are again ironically no voters.

Biazzre post that shows almost zero understanding of the yes movement

If people in Scotland were in the majority happy then nobody would care about independence.

Edited September 29, 2014 by ParisInAKilt

[Hertsscot]

Maybe wise but didnae half talk some shite.

Can't disagree with you succinct summary. It's not nationalism but which nationalism, all throughout the referendum campaign msm has been at it, Scots nationalism is bad, Brit nationalism is good, which basically means if you're an ordinary Scot you can be proud of your heritage but don't be so stupid as to think that you'd make a success of running your own country. Horrible corrosive paternalism which takes what you have and then accuses you of being subsidy junkies - massively damaging to the Scots psyche.

[thplinth]

SNP supporters have been walking a tightrope this last 4 years.

For the next 4 years in comparison the one major benefit of No is you can go for it, on anything.

Let the electorate vote No again at the next elections (Scottish & General). Fukk encourage it. We have zero to gain by being in government at this point so fukk it, express yourselves. Enjoy the freedom of the No.

[The Laud]

SNP supporters have been walking a tightrope this last 4 years.

For the next 4 years in comparison the one major benefit of No is you can go for it, on anything.

Let the electorate vote No again at the next elections (Scottish & General). Fukk encourage it. We have zero to gain by being in government at this point so fukk it, express yourselves. Enjoy the freedom of the No.

I share your pain.

[albathebrave]

Independence to me is not an event its a journey, I have voted snp since 1988, when I was an eighteen yearold. The independence movement has moved on leaps and bounds since then, god 5% and 1 vote and we had it! Nationalist? Your god damn right I am.

[mariokempes56]

Independence to me is not an event its a journey, I have voted snp since 1988, when I was an eighteen yearold. The independence movement has moved on leaps and bounds since then, god 5% and 1 vote and we had it! Nationalist? Your god damn right I am.

That's an amazing coincidence.

[Armchair Bob]

Horrible corrosive paternalism which takes what you have and then accuses you of being subsidy junkies - massively damaging to the Scots psyche.

This. Away from arguments about pounds and pence and fairness and equality, healing this unseen wound would be the real benefit of independence.

To me the union is a burden we carry that most don't even notice any more, like a food allergy that makes you feel shit but you don't know why, or even realise that what you think is feeling normal is not normal at all.

[Big Dod]

This. Away from arguments about pounds and pence and fairness and equality, healing this unseen wound would be the real benefit of independence.

To me the union is a burden we carry that most don't even notice any more, like a food allergy that makes you feel shit but you don't know why, or even realise that what you think is feeling normal is not normal at all.

Sweetcorn in a turd mate

Sums it up

[phil]

The point of the quote was that all nationalism is bad - English, British, Scottish. You can't distinguish. It's the same dubious instinct, because patriots only ever talk about the good stuff and never acknowledge the bad, 'the debt', or they blame it on someone else.

In the case of Britain, the debt is enormous, and one massive example will suffice, which can be summed up in one word: empire. Unfortunately this was very much a collaboration project, Scots were involved up to the hilt, and the results for parts of the world have been catastrophic, and ongoing. Apparently 5 million people were killed in this 'project', and if it didn't make everyone rich, it did benefit a huge number, north and south of the border.

That's why I cringe a bit when people - on the Yes side and No side - talk of their pride to be Scottish/British and wonder if they have really thought deeply about what they are saying.

Of course, plenty of Yes supporters are not flag wavers at all, just want a fairer society. I totally understand that, but if that is your position, surely DEVO Max would suit you better? Like it or not we are entwined with the rest of the UK, and many Scots just don't want to break away entirely.

I never trusted the SNP leadership. Why has Alex Salmond resigned? He has been acclaimed for his performance in the campaign, got a very creditable result, and there is no one better to fight for the deliverance of the promised extra powers. So why is walking away? I suspect it's because he's lost interest. To him Independence is the be all and end all, making speeches about social justice and a fairer society were just a way to get decent and principled people to vote for it.

Edited September 30, 2014 by phil

[thplinth]

There is a strategy to paint the Yes campaign as 1930's nationalism.

Personally I think we should even ditch the word Independence. Because it does not accurately define nor express what our true goal is, Self Governance and that cannot be spun or besmirched by smears and historical innuendo. It stands up as self evident.

Last time I checked the world is composed of Nation States.

[ParisInAKilt]

Of course, plenty of Yes supporters are not flag wavers at all, just want a fairer society. I totally understand that, but if that is your position, surely DEVO Max would suit you better? Like it or not we are entwined with the rest of the UK, and many Scots just don't want to break away entirely.

Devo max was never an option and never will be as it means Westminster give up control of Scotland's economy.

Wouldn't suit a lot of yes supporters better anyway because even if it was an option Scotland's defence and foreign policy would still be dictated by Westminster, a strong reason for independence.

[Toepoke]

Devo max was never an option and never will be as it means Westminster give up control of Scotland's economy.

Wouldn't suit a lot of yes supporters better anyway because even if it was an option Scotland's defence and foreign policy would still be dictated by Westminster, a strong reason for independence.

It's a step in the right direction. I'm happy to continue to protest against Trident 2 etc. but live in a fiscally autonomous Scotland...