Air Strikes Against Islamic State

[Brummie Hibs]

When did ISIS become ISIL? Did they undergo some new corporate branding, or does the west think ISIL sounds more sinister than ISIS?

[perthTam]

When did ISIS become ISIL? Did they undergo some new corporate branding, or does the west think ISIL sounds more sinister than ISIS?

Isis was the Egyptian goddess of health, marriage and love - definitely not nasty enough sounding if you want to bomb fvck out of them.

[Ally Bongo]

All SNP MPs will be voting against the motion

[Gee]

This ISIL bunch wouldn't have been around under Saddam's watch. Not with him having heaps of WMDs as a deterrent.

Cameron - "The people in that regime, as well as trying to take territory, are also planning to attack us here at home in the United Kingdom.''

These bad guys obviously don't realise we have Nukes to prevent this type of aggressive behaviour.

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

I still cannot believe that this did not register with more people.

The UK is, basically, a rogue state - and we voted to be part of it!

lot of punters here last thursday had themselves convinced that a yes vote would win the day

- the problem of being in a tamb / yes leaning FB bubble

i was surprised how close the pollsters called it

[Hessen]

lot of punters here last thursday had themselves convinced that a yes vote would win the day

- the problem of being in a tamb / yes leaning FB bubble

i was surprised how close the pollsters called it

This thread is about bombing Iraq

[Alibi]

The difference between this proposed bombing and previous wars is that it's not a country that is being attacked - it's a bunch of murderous savages who are killing people, including muslims that are of a slightly different variety. There have been a number of massacres already, and if these thugs are not confronted and stopped, there will be a lot more killings. It is probably the case that this is a result of the last Iraq war, but that doesn't mean we should stand back and let them continue their killing spree. This should really be a UN matter/mission, but at least for once there is some Arab involvement and also wide involvement from other countries. Tony Blair and his cronies are the root cause of this shambles and there are no easy answers, but we can't stand aside and let genocide occur yet again. There is no point in trying to talk to these zealots - they want to die. Although if we sent an all-female force, they would run a mile because they believe if they are killed by a woman they don't get their 40 virgins or however many it is.

[scotlad]

For me it's another example of people unquestioningly following central government like sheep.

We've become so absolutely conditioned to accept the power of Westminster, that many people simple can't countenance anything else.

If the referendum showed us one thing, it's that people power (I hate that phrase) actually still has some impact in the right circumstances.....that the establishment can democratically be made to jump to the wishes of the man in the street.

Unfortunately, we chose to hand that power straight back to the establishment. So now we're back into the same cycle of centralised government and the state broadcaster telling us how it is.

Yep, completely agree with you there, Rossy.

Left to the politicians alone Yes would have peaked in the low 30s. It was the grassroots movement that took the campaign to within touching distance of victory.

The good thing is the independence genie is well and truly out of the bottle now, and it isnae going back in. I only hope the penny drops with enough people over the next few years.

I wanted Scotland to be another Denmark, Holland or Sweden; a small prosperous country that ticks along in the world, helps others who need it whenever it can and doesn't go around bombing the f*ck out of other places because it thinks it is a 'power'.

Ach well, at least we can watch Doctor Who tomorrow.

Edited September 26, 2014 by scotlad

[Lamia]

The UK eagerness to win the referendum was about oil and hubris.

The Iraq war was about oil and hubris.

The next spate of bombings is about oil and hubris.

I am astounded that people will see the second two but fail the see the first!

[Lamia]

I wrote to an MP today saying we shouldnt enter another illegal war. This is her reply...

This is an incredibly difficult decision. We do have legal backing for the commitment of 6 Tornado aircraft. We have been asked by a democratically elected government to assist. We are specifically voting on Iraq only and for no boots on the ground. However ISIL's advance and their financial backing are both significant and it has only been the current wave of air strikes which have contained them. Containing them and pushing them back will help that continued tide of human misery which is fleeing ahead of ISIL. They are putting huge pressures on the states around Iraq and that in turn risks destabilising other states. We are not going into Syria because we do not have UN clearance. In pushing back ISIL we then allow Iraqi troops and Peshmerga fighters to have the confidence to regroup and take control of their territory and protect Shia, Sunni, Christian and Yazidi on the ground. In Kosovo it was air power which allowed the troops on the ground and UN to move in and expose the dreadful massacres which had taken place and secure villages and towns.

I would suggest you read Ed Miliband's speech which sets out the very different position we are in today compared with the vote on Syria.

Call me Dave is talking about Syria though.

When did ISIS become ISIL? Did they undergo some new corporate branding, or does the west think ISIL sounds more sinister than ISIS?

It is IS - get with the programme!

This thread is about bombing Iraq

Yes and with a Yes vote we would not need to have be talking about it.

[Alibi]

...however following on from my post above, I see Cameron is now talking of going into Syria. He seems to see it as another Iraq war, which it should not be. This should be about a humanitarian response to protect people. This should be a policing operation, not some sort of attempt to fan the flames which is what the UK is good at. I must admit I am torn between wanting us to protect innocent people and the danger that it goes further than that because idiots like Cameron don't know what they are doing but like playing soldiers cos they think it makes them look hard. Whatever happens, it is unlikely to end well.

[ParisInAKilt]

I no longer trust anything the mainstream media or the UK / Australian governments say when it comes to war (and pretty much anything else)

Any credible media resources to get info on this?

[mariokempes56]

I no longer trust anything the mainstream media or the UK / Australian governments say when it comes to war (and pretty much anything else)

Any credible media resources to get info on this?

Today's Independent has some excellent coverage from a number of writers.

[Bristolhibby]

I no longer trust anything the mainstream media or the UK / Australian governments say when it comes to war (and pretty much anything else)

Any credible media resources to get info on this?

Al Jazera is a good start.

Twitter, and then use your nose. People scoff at Twitter but for me it's my go to news outlet, I then read multiple sources of information and make up my own mind.

I also love listening to Russell Brand at the moment. Follow his YouTube channel.

J

[Mindimoo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29385123

[Hessen]

I wanted Scotland to be another Denmark, Holland or Sweden; a small prosperous country that ticks along in the world, helps others who need it whenever it can and doesn't go around bombing the f*ck out of other places because it thinks it is a 'power'.

I believe Denmark are sending some planes too, which surprised me.

[Bristolhibby]

I believe Denmark are sending some planes too, which surprised me.

They've been stuck in fighting in Afghanastan for ages too. Don't think the Danes just sit by,

J

[Cove_Sheep]

All SNP MPs will be voting against the motion

But Eddard said they were going to vote for it.

[scotlad]

They've been stuck in fighting in Afghanastan for ages too. Don't think the Danes just sit by,

J

Fair enough, bad example.

[scotlad]

But Eddard said they were going to vote for it.

[Cove_Sheep]

Menzies Campbell's speech was an absolute mess.

[exile]

There may be a case for action, and I am genuinely open to persuasion, but for me that case is not yet proven, what that action should be and crucially, by whom.

It's very easy to say 'let's get the baddies', but who has the authority to do it?

Why is the UN by-passed? Is it in Russia's interests or China's interests to have a caliphate on their doorsteps? Why could there not be a UN consensus?

If the UN is not to be the 'world police', we are left only with international 'vigilantes'?

Call me cynic but I am very suspicious of the motives here. The propaganda machine sounds suspiciously like it was before. Who most gains from this action - David Cameron?

And who pays the price? How many civilians died in Afghanistan? How many civilians died in Iraq? If we didn't care enough to count, who really cares now?

[scotlad]

The fud in a fedora getting predictably het up about it here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/26/galloway-iraq-war-debate_n_5887298.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

And a full list of the MPs who voted against it is here:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/iraq-vote-43-rebel-mps

[Mindimoo]

The fud in a fedora getting predictably het up about it here:http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/26/galloway-iraq-war-debate_n_5887298.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopularAnd a full list of the MPs who voted against it is here:http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/iraq-vote-43-rebel-mps

You surely mean a fedora on a fud?

[scotlad]

You surely mean a fedora on a fud?

Either or.

I noticed he removed said item while speaking in his beloved House of Commons.